I just want to know if i will have any problems if i get rid of my air pump? Besides smog.

thanks

 

yeah, your cat will die, and depending on what year and model, you may also loose mid and high end power.

 

94 fd with hi flow cat..

 

then just the cat will die a pre-mature death and you will not pass emissions

 

Cool thanks a lot. This really helped me.

 

Dud take off the air pump it runs on a clutch that only allows it to run and open up at a certain RPM. Take it off block it off and run a high flow or no cat at all. Even if you run the stock cat with airpump it's going to be a while b4 it goes out anyway.

 

yup, air pump is sorta like an after burner for 2nd cat. has nothing to do with life of the cat. oem cat is two cats in one with an air space in between both which is where air is fed and like blowing on a dying fire, it increases the heat to ignite in the 2nd cat. It is only done at certain low rpm and shuts of just above 3k rpm's. how often are you at or below 3k rpm's?

Too much unburned fuel goin in to the cat will destroy it. Most of the time the cat is off. The precat was designed for warm up because extra fuel is used to warm up the engine.

 

Ok thanks a lot for the info...

 

You don't understand monolithic converters at all.

The main monolithic Cat converters are made up of two parts:

The Reduction Catalyst
The reduction catalyst is the first stage of the catalytic converter. It uses platinum and rhodium to help reduce the NOx emissions. When an NO or NO2 molecule contacts the catalyst, the catalyst rips the nitrogen atom out of the molecule and holds on to it, freeing the oxygen in the form of O2. The nitrogen atoms bond with other nitrogen atoms that are also stuck to the catalyst, forming N2. For example:

2NO => N2 + O2 or 2NO2 => N2 + 2O2

The Oxidization Catalyst
The oxidation catalyst is the second stage of the catalytic converter. It reduces the unburned hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide by burning (oxidizing) them over a platinum and palladium catalyst. This catalyst aids the reaction of the CO and hydrocarbons with the oxygen injected into the exhaust gas. For example:

2CO + O2 => 2CO2

So where does that 2nd batch of O2 come from??? From the air pump. So without the air from the air pump the entire Oxidization Catalyst is not used and does not get up to operating temps...which leads to clogging and failure.

then you say:
It is used to reduce emissions at start up because it comes up to temp faster than the main cat. Not because of additional fuel or anything like that.

See cat converters only work at particular temps. When the exhaust is warming (from a cold start) that temp is closer to the pre-cat because the main cat has not received enough heat from the exhaust to start its reaction. By the time the main cat is actually working and hot, the exhaust at the pre-cat is too hot and reaction is no longer happening at the pre-cat (in essence bypassed).

 

Your Idle will also go to **** with the airpump removed as the stock ECU counts on the extra air in the EGR to add Oxygen to the intake... At least that's what happened to mine... even adjusting the screws on the throttle body made it better but still erratic when cold, and had to live with a 1000 rpm idle... instead of 800 or less

 

Actually, I explained the same thing as you just did...

(exactly the same thing I said above)
It's two parts (or two cats in one as I said). In the air space in between the two air is injected which raises temperature (just like blowing on a fire going out) which then heats up and allows anything unburned in the first to be burned in the second.

If you read the manual, it states cold start uses more fuel. Precat is used for cold starts. It is also the same on the PFC (look at injector settings for cold start).

Air pump is not going to clog prematurely from unburned fumes. If it's hot enough to burn then the cat will be destroyed from too much fuel, otherwise it goes out the exhaust. Hence, a precat which is closer to the engine which is hotter. I've had 3 brand new ones burn out in a week on my CRX. There is a thread in 3rd gen section and the starter found out it was "unburned" fuel that destroyed his metalic cat. Most 7's will have about 100k mi or more, so cat's are due for replacement with or without an air pump.

You are also forgetting that air is also injected in to the intake manifold from the air pump as well. This is how I have mine setup. The air pipe is blocked off. That's in the manual to.

In my afterburner example it relates cause in an airplane afterburner unburned fumes are ignited after the engine. It serves a different purpose but in both cases exhaust cools off and unburned fumes need to be reignited which with the airplaine it needs spark becuase it has air and in the cat it needs air and the cat will burn it.

 

Removing the air pump will "increase" the life of the catalytic converter.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/catalytic-converter1.htm

http://www.randomtechnology.com/technical.html

 

You are assuming the two are related. They are not. Your own next post you quote the pre-cat set up... Did you not put two and two together.

A cat doesn't work until it is up to operating temp range. A cat doesn't work if it exceeds operating temp range.

So the pre-cat is only used because it comes up to temp before the main cat. It has absolutly nothing to do with additional fuel being used in the motor.

No... again you don't understand. Yes you got it right that there is two parts, but no you didn't understand that the first section does one thing, while the 2nd does and entirly different conversion. The second section takes the byproduct of the first section in the cat, mixes Ox and converts it again to an entirly different byproduct.

The air pump does not even use or take in unburned fumes... I don't think have a understanding of the system. It is a pump. All it does, it's entire life is pump out air that it takes in from the air box just after the air filter. I personally have never seen a air pump clogged, but I suppose it is possible if it was not connected to a filter correctly.

Now you got something right. That is true... too much fuel in the in the main monolithic cat will overheat it and burn it out.

Whoops I spoke too soon... all cat converters used in automtive applications are Metallic. Maybe you meant Monolithic???

No that is incorrect again. If a monolithic cat is used (as found in all 84 and later RX-7's) as long as the engine is in tune and in good condition the cat will last forever. I have personally seen cats with 150,000 or even 300,000 miles on them just as clear as a brand new one.

I'll have to look at the FD manual to confirm that, but that is often confused with the exhaust ports by people that don't follow the flow charts or by people that think since it is connected to the air box, that it must pump there (they don;t get that it is getting it's intake air from the same place the engine is).

Not even sure what you are trying to say there as it has nothing to do with a monolithic cat converter being damaged by not having sufficent air flow.

Yep you got it.. that is the whoile purpose of the pre-cat. Do you understand this now??? Move the cat closer and it heats up faster and it works sooner. That is the whole reason for the single stage pre-cat... do you understand this now???The differnece between the single stage pre-cat and the main monolithic cat??

 

Wow look man the idle is not going to be that bad take the cats off to free up pressure and allow the engine to breathe, remove the air pump and block it you only have to adjust idle just lil a bit not much if not any. You will be fine. In the long run when it's time to smog you have everything there and ready to throw back in.

 

I have personally taken the air pump off at least 7 FD's now and it has never affected the idle of the car. I think in most of the case's were it has something else was wrong with car to beging with. Besides I like my car to idle at 900 - 1000 rpm. It seems to run better that way.

 

Everything I said was "correct". I left the links for you and everyone to read. You can also read the manual, that is where the information is from. It clearly states more fuel is added on cold starts to warm the engine. The precat is closer to the engine because it heats up faster. Why does it need to heat up faster? because more fuel on cold starts. It's in the manual.

3-way cats are no longer used.

Removing air pump will prolong cat life as it will prevent it from overheating from excessive fuel. Did you even read the links?

I don't think you are understanding. The quotes are not from me. You can tell tell sources above and Mazda they don't know what they are talking about, if you like.

 

Original question = Will air pump be ruined if cat is removed?
Answer = No

I poste "QUOTES" that "explain" why. yes, quotes not me making it up. Here is more reading below...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_converter

<- Notice that is a "QUOTE"!

A slightly lean of stoichiometric mix is far more dangerous (that means more air).

Read this below, it is also a "QUOTE"...
another "QUOTE"...
Here is more reading...
http://meineke.com/stuff_about_cars/..._catalytic.asp

Now where does it state removing the air pump will make the cat go bad, nowhere.

 

The air pump does not inject extra fuel... again, you are mis-understanding what it does... first you claim it cloggs from too much fuel, then now you are saying it injects too much fuel??? I don't think you even understand where the air that the "air pump" (not the fuel pump) is injected.

not gonna argue anymore, you don't get it and need to take a couple of autmotive classes. You don't even understand the quotes you have posted, well alone the out right mistakes such as the air pump getting clogged, or even providing fuel. You have mistakenly mixed up the concept of cold start on the engine with cold start of the emissions, because you don't even understand how a cat converter works

Come back when you when you have taken a couple of classes and really understand what is happening and how cat converters and air pumps and emissions work.

This statement alone shows you don't even understand what the air pump does:

Do you understand that the air injected by the air pump actually delutes the unconverted mixture??? Mix air with fuel, and it leans out... so by removing the air pump you are actually doing the opposite of what you suggesting. Removing the pump, makes the unconverted mixture in the cat richer... leading to overheating of the cat. But again, you don't understand the concept.

 

wow

 

My favorite thing about an air pump is to get rid of it. How does that affect the life of the cat? Who cares, get rid of it too. This may sound ignorant to some, and I understand and apologize. That's why I love this huge push on eco-friendly cars. It helps me sleep at night because with more hybrids on the road it means that my car somehow has less impact on global warming. Just my $.50.

 

You dont make any sense. you havent read anything I wrote and you say I didnt read yours, wtf? air pump doesnt inject fuel? what the heck...did you make that up I didnt write it.

It extremely simple. Removing air pump will NOT ruin cat period, end of story nothing else matters. That was the question and that is the answer.

here is your quote below?
The air pump does not inject extra fuel... again, you are mis-understanding what it does... first you claim it cloggs from too much fuel, then now you are saying it injects too much fuel??? I don't think you even understand where the air that the "air pump" (not the fuel pump) is injected.
wtf is that? Who said that? not me. DOn't invent stuff or change what I said. You are making stuff up now.

You obviously did NOT read any of the links that CLEARLy explained in detail how the cat works and as I stated I quoted from. Got to www.dictionary.com and look up "quote".

Removing air pump does not shorten life of catalytic converter A/F is controled by the ECU. You do not make the exhaust richer by removing the air pump, that's impossible. Magic invisible fuel injectors? The 2nd 1/2 will not get hot enough without the extra air injection to overheat and destroy it.

 

I wouldn't sugest to throw it away. You can remove it and bypass it with a greddy pully kit and then wehn smog comes around, you put it back. In the threads I posted it clearly shows what damages a cat and smog pump is not mentioned. Unburned fuel is. In order to ignite any unburned fuel that made it past the 1st 1/2 air is injected and is ignited in the 2ns 1/2 of the cat. extremely simple even my doggie gets it. removing the air pump will not increase fuel! duh! it will just allow unburned fuel to exit out the tail pipe. The cat will not get clogged from no air pump. Injecting air leans out the exhaust but you can not twist that around and say not injecting air richens the exhaust because you go back to what you started with. You are not adding fuel, just subtracting injected air. If you have q/f problems the air pump will not resolve that, your cat will be destroyed. If you think that the air pump will save the cat went you are spitting out fuel in to the exuast then you are fooling yourself big time. Your cat will still be destroyed with an aip pump connected!

 

in fact though.... the air pump is not a pump at all.... but a compressor....
pumps pump liquid.....
compressors move gases...

 

but both of you guys are right... and no more arguing

 

-1
I love a good debate