ProBlasphemer

I've been researching these motor swaps for a little while, and I thought I'd jump into the fray and **** some people off. It's so easy, apparantly, that all it takes are a few facts.

Why the V8? Simple.

1) They're very affordable. While I always hear about some guy who turned two screws and bought some 5 dollar part from pick-a-part and 'wow, all of a sudden this little motor was putting out 500+ horsepower!' stories, these are always bunk. Not even most of the time. Go check out some build sheets when you look at what it takes to make a lot of these import motors actually put out performance car numbers, and it's fairly embarrassing. Especially in a seven, you're one tank of bad gas away from a tow home. Simply put - if boosting the **** out of a small engine was the way to make horsepower, why aren't all of the OEMs doing it? Meanwhile, even a lowly 350 Goodwrench motor puts out 260hp and 350 lb ft, with dinosaur/garbage heads and a sissy cam. Meanwhile, when you get into the real deal motors, or build one yourself, you can have a nice, easy 350-400hp with not a lot invested.

2) Reliability. The same reason why Ford's GT40 was able to beat Ferrari way back when at the 24 hours of LeMans - which is more reliable, trying to get 2.0l to produce 400hp or 5.0l+? Raising the power/displacement ratio on a given size motor leads to reliability problems.

3) Torque. Buzzy, low displacement motors may rev to the moon but what are they doing with all of that thrashing and noise? a B16 Honda revs to 8500 rpm - big deal, it's still only making 160hp and 110lb-ft. Revs alone don't make a car faster, and let's face it, a lot of these cars aren't as light as we'd like them to be (the newer the car, the more true this is). My favorite comparison is the older, C5 Z06 vs the previous gen M3. The import guys always go for the M3, even though it's more expensive, heavier, and slower in all measurable ways, and even doesn't get as good mileage as the 'dinosaur' Vette. Motor Trend observed this back in the day: that the Z06 makes more torque [I]at idle[I] than the M3 manages to at PEAK.

4) They're actually lightweight motors. Especially the Chevy LS series motors, these are actually lighter than many import turbo motors fully dressed, and even if they're a tad bit heavier, hey, how much does that turbo kit weigh? I don't really think that anyone is looking to put a 454 or anything into a Seven, but I'd like to see it just to hear you all bitch and moan.

Why a seven? Or any other rwd import? Because, for one, your rotary motors are so reliable - and or your engine tuning abilities are so poor, either one - that these cars come up for fire-sale prices all of the time because - drum roll - the rotary likes to blow up. The chassis is awesome, however, and since I'd want a modern LS motor in anything I build anyway, and since V8 Camaros of any age (with admittedly less going for them in the chassis) aren't anywhere near as cheap, guess what? It's not about muscle cars, guys, it's about going ******* FAST. I want a Vette, can't afford one though. I could probably swing an LS1/T56 into an FC chassis, however, and end up lighter than a Vette. Better pipe music, too - sorry, I fell in love with the rotary for awhile but they sound like ***. Also, rotarys are GAS GUZZLERS and since a heavier Vette or Camaro with the LS/6spd can knock down 28mpg on the highway, so will one of these.

Oh, and one other reason: you looked at the price of vintage iron these days? Even an early 70's Nova is going for 2 grand for a basket case.

I'll be back later to provide even more intelligent counterpoint for you guys. Ta.

Howi

iTrader: (2)

are you 16 years old?

Howi

jagwrjack

iTrader: (3)

Wow! Great counterpoint, Howi.

Are you 16 years old ?

Jager

iTrader: (10)

I hate posts like these. If someone already posts in this forum they already know this information, it's not a revalation and it's not anything that 95% of people here don't know.

Looks like we have the second coming of Nihilatwhateverthefuck.

Does the poster even own an RX-7? Or does he just to think he's actually pissing people off.

Howi

iTrader: (2)

exactly. threads like these are absolutely useless. funny part is, ProBlasphemer is full of himself and thinks he's enlightening us with his intelligent points:

lol and jagwrjack you completely missed the point

Howi

Juiceh

iTrader: (4)

Stupid Troll.

niburu

iTrader: (1)

more like opinions based and stuff you've read and no direct experience

you obviously don't know jack about M3's stock for stock they will easily out handle a C5 vette, M3 has a way nicer interior, seats 4, it's also not a sports car.
I guess you compare it more to the M coupe but I wouldn't recommend it.

no the LT's are heavy iron block pigs, try again and yes LS series is much lighter because it's an aluminum block
a 454 big block will not fit in a RX-7

[QUOTE=ProBlasphemer;7407326]Why a seven? Or any other rwd import? Because, for one, your rotary motors are so reliable - and or your engine tuning abilities are so poor, either one - that these cars come up for fire-sale prices all of the time because - drum roll - the rotary likes to blow up.[quote]
they're no worse than any other hard driven 20 year old cars out there
you're comparing 5 year old carrs to 15+ year old cars, RX-8's are putting down 25mpg on the highway if you take it easy
also I find the Camaro and Vette styling rather hideous

supply and demand, most of the supply has rusted away or been crushed, what's left is in high demand and also the best of the bunch the regular DD beaters are mostly gone now.


Basically you're a big mouth idiot kid.

7_rocket

iTrader: (6)

obviously hes trying to get a rise out of people and its working

niburu

iTrader: (1)

maybe so, but he's got so many things wrong he obviousyl needs sum edumacatin'

locopr1

One thing I can never figure out is why people care what the hell someone else likes or dislikes in their given car or setup? Some people like big muscle cars, some like smaller import cars, some like V8s in rotaries, some like rotaries in Toyotas and VW Bugs, who gives a damn. Like what you like, LOVE what you like! Dont waste your energy tryin' to convert others to your religion. It is more fruitful to find likeminded people and share your passion with them. That's the beauty of this FORUM!!! I like rotaries, also like the idea of a V8 in an rx7. Also like Electric driven vehicles. I like what I like, you like what you like. Doesnt really affect me what you like/dislike or vice-versa. It's just an ugly part of human nature that we hate those that do not agree with what we are passionate about. Sad.

Not important, but I actually saw a 7 with a 454!!! craziest thing! I think he is still selling it here in Chi.

niburu

iTrader: (1)

Well it's not unpossible but he must had move the rad somewhere forward of the 1st crossmember of the chassis or do some cutting on the body and prolly some custom headers. I know they don't drop right in like the LS motors do - I gotta a friend with a LS-1 FC.

alexdimen

iTrader: (13)

Are you done stroking your ego and trying to impress people with your magazine education? Ok, good...

They blow up, huh? That's interesting. When was the last time you saw this happen? Anyone?

Let me go ahead and answer that for you. Never. They don't blow up, they fail in the same ways most engines do. Loss of compression or failure of the coolant seal (think blown head gasket or corroded head).

It's a myth created by people who never replaced 15+ year old fuel components on a sports car and then ignored the smell of gas. You can imagine the rest of that story...

locopr1

The guy who built it is actually a rotary engine builder. He took the engine out of a truck and stuffed it in there. Once he was done hood couldnt close. He got that fixed somehow. Guy just loves to tinker with things!!! And NO V8 (or V6 for that matter) drops right in. They are custom jobs requiring a lot of work. That's why I decided to just rebuild by 12a. Maybe some other time...

niburu

iTrader: (1)

and lastly our OP didn't actually check the weight on his beloved Vette
Edmunds list the curb weight of 96 Corvette at 3298 pounds while the
96 BMW M3 comes in at 3175 pounds curb weight
I figured 96 was the good mid range timewise to compare them as things only got worse for the Corvettes till the C6's came out
(the M3 also has a 2 foot smaller turning cirle than the Vette not bad for luxury sport coupe)

RISEN

A 3 rotor or 4 rotor doesn't sound that bad. F1 Music

jimlab

Only at high rpm. They sound as shitty as any other rotary engine at lower rpm.

jimlab

Was it really necessary to start a semantic argument about the phrase used to describe an engine failure?

Piston engines don't barf broken parts out the exhaust ports and take out your turbo(s) when they die.

jimlab

Look who's talking...

Right, which is why the M3 dominated SCCA Solo 2 and not the C5 Vette. Wait a minute, wasn't it the other way around?

Which has nothing to do with how quick it is or how it handles.

OK, it's a sports sedan.

50-60 lbs., assuming stock parts.

Yeah, actually one will.

Who gives a ****, they guzzle gas when you use the throttle.

Good for you.

So what does that make you?

alexdimen

iTrader: (13)

Yes, it's impoirtant to point out to someone as ignorant as this that these engines don't blow up. Whether he listens or not is a different story.

It's hardly semantics. It's the difference between an explosion and a little piece of metal breaking.

This has never happened? Right...

Just stop. You're backing a complete idiot and are simply nit-picking. I'm done here btw.

jimlab

It's exactly semantics.

Now you're just being dramatic. That's something else entirely.

Not often. Broken parts in a piston engine typically stay in the engine.

No, I'm refuting the comments made by another idiot. I don't have to believe he's right to believe you're wrong.

Narfle

iTrader: (16)

Because carb's are always fun on steep hills and on cold winter mornings!

Fallacious conjecture, and where exactly is your budget 350hp sbc?

Which is more reasonable: One combustion for every 2 rotations or 3 combustions for every rotation? Good point through; Rotary engines should be of more displacement. That given the geometric advantage of combustions per cycle handicapped by the rotary's poor volumetric efficiency could actually put the rotary far on top as per power output vs weight/size/displacement, but I fear we will never know.

That is deadly irrelevant.

e36 m3's are actually quite affordable and if i werenty so lazy id prove they were more affordable than corvettes(not to mention more reliable, classier, and more ergonomic)

Thats so much horse ****; you must clean stables. The M3 gets 30+mpg highway

Which makes a $6,000-$8,000 FD that much more reasonable, right?

This is great and all but it would have been even better if you interjected your assinine shenanigans into a worthwhile thread. This one will probably just fall off the top page soon.

Good luck and all,
Barban

niburu

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by niburu
more like opinions based and stuff you've read and no direct experience

yes? I have first hand experience with both cars owning, driving, and competing with & against

Quote:
you obviously don't know jack about M3's stock for stock they will easily out handle a C5 vette

I don't think either the Vette or the M3 are going to running in the original factory settings if they are competitive in SOLO 2. C5's are amazingly good handling cars once you get in and change the settings and put in some better suspension compenents.

Quote:
M3 has a way nicer interior, seats 4

apparently you're not understanding the point I'm making about advantages of said M3

Quote:
it's also not a sports car.

luxury sports coupe........and sedan for 97 and 98 only


Quote:
a 454 big block will not fit in a RX-7

with alot of work ....see later post you didn't bother to read where i mention that

quote:
RX-8's are putting down 25mpg on the highway if you take it easy

just like V8's



Quote:
Basically you're a big mouth idiot kid.
I'm an idiot adult......I suspect jimlab actually be the original poster of this thread, just to see what sort of reactions he could pull or vent or something like that

Bronze MFP

[shameless plug] hey PB if you like v8's so much, buy my granny's speed shop small block chevy into FC chassis kit and put your money where your mouth is. [/shamless plug]

pyscho7

i dont understand why someone would try to change my weekend rotary religion, i get more respect keeping a 20 year old car kept as nice as it is and still beating out new imports and domestics. Obviously rotaries aren't for the poster.

but on a serious note next time, you might as well step in an ant mound and get your *** bit thousands of times because all you are doing is pissin those who care about one of the few cars with the most simple engine design ever made. and its not even like they've really expanded rotary technology. they changed the displacement. and have stuck with the 6 port n/a style setup. Just wait until mazda unveils that sexy direct inject rotary engine. i think we got close to 10 years for the rotary engine to really see some true potential. The whole reason im going to school in mechanical engineering is to further my understandings of the rotary world. well that and to get paid bigger bucks, but mainly just to build nasty street machines.

jimlab

Reasonable? What does "reasonable" have to do with anything?

If you're implying that 3 is "better" than 2, then you should know that a V8 has 4 combustion events per rotation which, by your own logic, is better than 3.

Now, what if during those 3 combustion events per rotation, the rotary is consuming as much fuel as a V8 and producing far less power?

They are, which is why governing bodies in racing rate them at higher than their "factory" displacement.

Rotary engine displacements were purposely underrated (and it was allowed, because the design differs from a conventional 4-stroke engine) to avoid higher taxation on 2.0+ liter engines in Japan.

An arbitrary number which doesn't change the amount of fuel and air it is ingesting...

So now you want to create a new formula for calculating output per liter that takes into account the number of combustion events?

The majority of your posts are, I've found.