wptrx7

It appears as if Hinson maybe having quality issues with his subframe, so I asked a question on TC:

Why doesn't someone, since all this info (dimensions needed for fit and install) is out there, design a subframe from scratch instead of redoing the original Mazda subframe?

wingsfan

That's exactly what Jim's cradle did/does. His LT1 cradle was a ground up construction, just as the LSx cradle will be.

wptrx7

I was just kind of surprised no one has done this before. I knew Jim had created a new subframe for the LT a long time ago, why didn't anyone else just jump on that bandwagon and create a new frame, cost? Probably.

V8Mongrel

Cost. Time. Liability. Viability.

Knowing people who have done it, I can tell you the quickest way to dislike the car hobby we all enjoy is to make into a job.

Russo

what do you mean Hinson is having quality issues?

V8Mongrel

http://www.torquecentral.com/showthread.php?t=36326

wingsfan

Cost, the specific skills involved and lack of a target market I'd assume. In 2+ years Hinson's saying he's only sold ~150 subframes. There are only so many potential converts out there.

wingsfan

So true.


The second quickest is to change your mind a bunch. My car's been on stands for the last 18 months while I waffled back and forth about what I wanted from it and accumulated piles of parts for the different setups.

I actualy touched the car for the first time in ~4 months last weekend (funny how a newborn will do that to you). And with the holiday weekend coming up I'm sure I'll be sick of the car by Tuesday.

V8Mongrel

Yup. Viability. In order to make back the investment in getting a subframe to be a significant improvement over current offerings, you would have to either charge a lot or sell a lot. You cannot charge a lot as you would be the new player running up against the established guys (new business that try to start on top of the ladder are rarely successful) and you can never sell a lot since the FD is relatively rare and the stock engine fulfills the needs of many people.

I don't have an MBA so perhaps there is someone here who can point out any mistakes I have made. I do work in the automotive industry and get to see who fails and who succeeds. All the elements for failure are in this idea, IMO.

V8Mongrel

Having had two kids, I can tell you that they take a huge bite out of car time, but are 100% worth it. Of course, that makes indecision that much more detrimental to progress. Care to guess why I am building a very simple SA22C with a very simple swap? I'll give you a hint, the number one reason isn't the one that you saw claimed in the other thread!

wingsfan

No MBA here either.

I don't think that's neccessarily true if the quality is that much better. Which in the case of Jim's LT1 cradle v. Granny's LT1 was certainly the case. People will pay more for something better built (to a point obviously). But, you do shrink an already small target market with that approach.

V8Mongrel

Correct. What it boils down to is that by entering into a market at a higher price point, you are decreasing your auidence, as you point out. That is the hard way to do things. Furthermore, how much price differential can you realistically command? You are the new guy on the block, and while you may actually have quality in your favor, you don't have the reputation needed to carry that quality into a high product price.

If you read Mark Johnson's book on disruptive innovation, you can see excellent models on how this all works. Companies are driven up market by competition. Very few start out up there.