digitalsolo

iTrader: (2)

Well the picture you posted of the complete engine up there is front sump. That's dang sure not fitting. The closeup looks like a rear sump, but it's also a totally different pan from the apprearance of the cast in supporting ribs.

capn

yeah that picture above is the standard XLR northstar motor while the shiny one is the V series motor with ALOT more to it then the standard Northstar

OpticChrash

hey, just for some information for you, the owner of CHRfab is my uncle. He is a really great guy, and know his stuff about the northstar motor, and i know he would be able to help you, like if you need motor mounts or for wireing for the ecu. So if you need some expert advise about the northstar or help with anything give him a call or email him.


Chris

capn

ive talked to alan before and he is an AMAZING guy he knows a ton about the motor and all the idiosyncrocies of the motor hes really really great talking to.

capn

OK guys I have found a viable alternative to the northstar

THE 1UZ-FE, apparently this engine swap is huge in australia. So the aftermarket support is all the way across the pacific. I do not mind because the 1uz is a CHEAP engine, its the 5.0 of japan basiaclly.

Heres some specs on the engine:

4.0L displacement
180kg (396lbs)
32 valve
all aluminum
6 bolt mains
250 hp at 6000rpm
200 ft/lb at 4000rpm
10:1 compression
Direct tapet vavles

and these engines can be had for around $600 with all accesories, WHAT A DEAL.

This change of engine choice was prompted the other day when my dorm buddies asked me why not just buy a 5.0 or a Lt1? I said, "because i do not want an iron block, and the Northstar is jsut soo coooool." So just to entertain ourselves and procrastinate from some engineering reports we ebayed it up. And to my suprise lt1s were fairly cheap at around 1100-1500 for a 5.7 from a caprice or something. then we looked at 5.0s, cheaper and smaller not too bad. Then we stumbled along 1uz, which ebay had picked at random as a motor choice, so i check this motor out and to my suprise this is an all aluminum 32 vavle V8 made by toyota. And it was 650 to boot! So this reminds me of the thread that showed an FB with the 1uz in it. So i do a little research and this is a HUGE aftermarket following in austraila.

So thats how i came across it. Now the descion to actually opt for this engine rather then buy a brand spankin new crate motor was the fact that the people who happen to own the garage where i keep my project car (my parents) want it gone. So this cheap engine option gives me a change to drop all my **** retentive habits of cleaning stuff and just GET IT DONE. SO maybe i can have this swap running by the end of summer rather then having to wait 2 more semesters and another summer. So by doing this swap i will save money, perhaps gain reliability (toyota legacy) and have more paths for upgrades rather then give CHRFAB all my money.


so heres my break down of the engines

northstar (LH2 crate motor)

Positives:
4.6L (more cc's)
VVT
New
coil on plug

Negatives:
new and untested (sorta doing R&D)
Larger (physically)
Price tag
NO one has done it (to my knowledge)
parts are expensive
same wieght as lsx

1UZ-FE

Positives:
Smaller (physically)
lighter
cheaper
more aftermearket support
6 bolt main (compared to the LH2 4 bolt)
easier mounting
forged crank

Negatives:
Smaller (in cc's)
is an older motor

so thats what i see as the side by side comparision, and with left over money i can build the 1UZ up for more reliability (I am not looking for huge power) and have enough left over for a decent 5 speed and hopefully get this car done THIS summer and have my car running again

WOOOOO


Clifnotes:

1uz>Lh2

capn

If anyone is interested here are some more links to the 1UZ stuff thats helping me along.

https://www.rx7club.com/other-engine-conversions-non-v-8-118/toyota-uz-engine-info-prices-discussion-thread-483718/ 1UZ info

https://www.rx7club.com/v-8-powered-rx-7s-299/damn-i-could-have-had-v8-437434/ 1UZ in a FB (ignorance is kinda high in this one)

http://www.1uzfe.com/ This guy is putting a 1UZ-FE in his TE27 car and has lotsa info/links

http://www.lextreme.com/1uzfe_info.html 1UZ specs and info (more accurate then mine)

but daym, V8 PLEASURE HERE I COME!!

capn

EDIT in my post about the output of the 1UZ it is actually

1UZ-FE
250 hp @ 5600 rpm
260 tq @ 4400 rpm

Merc63

capn, if you look carefully on the Lextreme forum, you're going to find that while the engine is cheap (I paid $480 for mine), hooking it up to a manul trans, or a non-computer controlled automatic, is expensive. Budget almost $2k just to connect the engine with a transmission that isn't the stock computer controlled automatic. And making the engine run in a non-Lexus application can run upwards of $2-4k for the computer (almost a grand if you use the cheap Megasquirt, but few people have that combo running yet).

This is what's pissing me off about the Lexus stuff. I bought a sub $500 engine w/only 90k on it, a $50 W58 5 speed trans from a Supra, to go in a $1500 car, and it's going to take another $3k to hook it together and make it run, ust n parts. And that doesn't count radiators, driveshafts, or motor mounts. OR reworking it to make more than the stock hp.

I'm getting to the point where I'm feeling like selling what I have of the Lexus crap and just go with a 5.0 from a Mustang, as I can ge the engine and trans runing, bolted together, for under $800. In my particular project, that would literally be a bolt in for the 260 cid smallblock that's already in there. It just would be too common, but I guess that's a good thing at this point.

88IntegraLS

At the end of the day, despite the technologically interesting overhead cam crap abound in the modern automotive world, one truth remains and always will:

Pushrods work.

capn

SWEET someoen else is doing this too, yeah i have noticed that the tranny was going to be the more expensive part in this project but i still dont understand how it can be so much to put a manual in. Because if you can find a decent standalone then I dont see why you cannot just fab up an adapter to like a t56 or something and call it a day?

yeah I realize that, I just wanted something that was a little different. But enough of what i want and what works what i am mainly concerned with is my time constraint. I plan to have this done by the beginning of next year (may 1st 2007), so with that said time=money, the more time I have the more money I will have. Less time i have = less money I have.

so the 1UZ is dirt cheap and light and a little different so that works for me.

88IntegraLS

I've been finding with my own swap that the little issues like hooking up the clutch pedal take a while. It sux because after the engine is in the bay, mounted to the car, it looks like it's almost done.

capn

Yeah thats sorta what i need to convince my parents that its almost done. Cause having a 10th AE shell lying around in a full garage is bad when you could have a backup car if someones car breaks down....

a super badass backup car

Merc63

Fabbing up an adaptor is a major undertaking. You ahve to have it accurate to withing a couple thousandths of an inch, or you end up with serious drivetrain vibrations, possibly leading to destruction of the trans or at least the engine rear main bearing. the 1UZ was never available with a manual trans, so there are no factory flywheels for it. EVERYTHING is custom. And even teh cheapest flywheel available is like $500, and that's using the 6 cyl one with the ring gear recut to work in reverse PLUS redrilling it for the 1UZ mounting pattern. Then you add the clutch, and you have to make sure that it all fits properly with the added thickness of the adaptor plate calcualted in, OR you use a custom bellhousing from one of the two makers of them in Australia. And then if you do that, you need to make sure your custom flywheel and clutch fts THAT thickness. And if you're using the Tyota trans, that's all teh EASY part. if you use a different trans, you have to make sure that the splines and thicknesses are all perfect, too. Hell, I'm STILL waiting for what's supposedly a perfect adapter for my W58 trans (late '80s Supra 5 speed) and I dont' even have a flywheel or clutch setup yet, as there aren't any that are cheap enough for me to afford. I'm not buying a $1000 Fidanza flywheel...

OTOH, you can buy an LSx with a T56 already bolted to it. For les than the cost of adapting a manual trans to a 1UZ.

As for a standalone computer, the typical ones used on the cars on the Lextreme forum tend to run between $2-4k. There are guys trying to science out the MegaSquirt, and I'm following that pretty close, but so far, the only one that runs is some monster twin turbo one that uses a bunch of custom stuff.


Considering that pretty much nothing you do will be of the shelf or bolt together, and for a lot of it, you'll be the only one doing it, it'll take way more than a year to get done. I wa even going so far as to try to find one of teh new Zealand circle track racer's Holley carb manifold, just to reduce the amount of time it takes to get running at all. Since the car it's going in is already carbed and is very much pre-emissions, I didn't think it'd be a problem, but even finding one of those manifolds is proving expensive up here.

As beautiful and exotic as the 1UZ is sitting here on a stand, it may not be worth actually using in a project like this.

shm21284

Finally, a v8 swap that uses a sweet v8! I have faith in torqueheads again!!!

capn

As for the stand alone, i just got done talkig with the aussies at microtech and they said as long as i have all the sensors and distributers and ignitors and stock coil in place on the engine then Thier LT10s system will run a 1UZ just fine. and that system is $1195 AUD

And as far as the tranny is going im still doing ALOT of research on what i can do, I am talking to D&D performance to see what the possibility of getting a correct fit of somethings but right now this new 1UZ thing is still in planning stages. But hopefully by august of this year I will have a running engine in my RX7 again, whether the car can move under its own power is a different story.

Merc63

$1200 Aus plus shipping, plus tuning for something that MIGHT work, to make a $500 engine run, even before you get to the things that hook it to the car is pricey. Oh, does that run the injection, too, or just the ignition? Some only run teh injection, some only run the ignition, some run both.

I'm all for being different, which I why I originally chose this engine for my Comet, but man, it's NOT cost effective for the power output.

shm21284

Standalones give you so much freedom to do different things with your motor. The LT10 is a full standalone, controlling both fuel and spark; however, the microtech's fallback is the lack of an O2 sensor input to go into closed loop operation. A haltech E6X would be a wiser choice, in my opinion, because it offers that option, as well as many others. And the cost is like 1098 with harness from a place here in michigan, with no overseas shipping costs.

In a way, the standalone system is cost effective, if you intend on trying different setups on your engine. With a standalone, you can freely build an N/A engine, and later decide to go turbo without having to worry about changing ECU's or getting your ECU reflashed. Tuning is really easy on a standalone, another bonus of the system.

capn

Well right now I am considering a LOT of different options for the ECU, but what i am most concerned with cost effeciency and ease of install here is the list of potential ECUs

Microtech LT10s
Megasquirt II DIY
Megasquirt II assembled
Holly 950 Comander
AEM EMS
Wolf 3D
Link Plus
Haltech 11v2
Haltech E6
Haltech E8

so far the megasquirt and microtech ECUs are top contenders with Holly following close

chingon

http://www.dellowauto.com.au/
http://www.1uzfe.com/ engine 4, bottom of page
http://v8supra.com/bellhousing.html

Merc63

The point is, $1-2k (or more as the ones that seem to work well are closing in on $4k) for a computer to make a $500 engine simply run in a $1500 car. The point is making the 1UZ cost effective vs an LS1/LS2 or, in my case, vs a Ford 5.0 which is a direct bolt-in. And the cost of adapting the engine to the car, adapting the engie to a useable trans, and the cost of the standalone combined just to make a 250 hp engine run vs the cost of the domestic V8 is a considerable difference.

I'm not building a 500 hp engine. I'm not building a race car. I just got a good deal on a low mileage late model 1UZ, that is turning out to be not so great a deal from a cost standpoint. And I'm seeing someone else who hasn't bought one yet try to say it's going to be a cost effective choice vs an LS series engine in an RX7 swap, and it simply isn't for what you get as an end result.

capn

Well, what i am sorting out is that I am going to use a standalone on any engine choice i use. I was previously going to be using an IRL computer by Magnetti Marelli on the northstar which would have been a helluva lot more, but the fact is I personally can get this swap done for less cause having the engine price being the main factor in this swap; lower engine price will mean lower overall project price. Thats just the way I see it, So instead of buying a $4500 crate engine i will be buying a $600 used engine, so that leaves more money for other things, which in this case seem to be the transmission.

owen is fat

jeez, all that talk about engine management and transmission adapters and custom flywheels and big time spent on tuning or paying to have a shop tune it... makes me happy I went with a 1998 LS1T56 swap for $2500 that included the harness and PCM.... the GM PCM is completely reprogrammable and the software is readily available, as are people willing to help reprogram the PCM to run in a swap car for essentially free.

good luck on the projects!

Nihilanthic

You do realize its nigh impossible to find a pullout like that for $2500, right?

capn

Yeah i was about to say the same thing, I can get JUST a LS1 for $2200 at my local junk yard. But tranny and LS1 would be up in the $3,xxx range and I personally need this car going ASAP. So the LS1 although more powerful its not as cost effective for the swap right now.

And my local Junk yard only has 2 of the LS1s in while they have about 10 1UZFEs in so i have a larger selection.

capn

OK guys I am freakin happy beyond comprehension the mechanical beauty of this engine is phenominal and makes me smile alll the time.

The engine was purchased through Advanced auto parts, I got jipped on the accesories like Alternator and A/C compressor and engine mounts, also some sensors got fucked up. But for $500 I am not complaining too much. The engine spins freely and starter engauges very nice but unfortunatly my batterey doesn't have enough *** to turn it over some more. But DAMn this thing looks nice.

I already took off the valve covers to look at the valve train to see the condition of that and it is NICE, just put some assembly lube on it to keep it nice and clean and now I hast have to make my mounts and get my ECU