Nihilanthic

Well, Im bored, I always like to learn new things, and unless I come into posession of a welder I most likely wont be doing the 1UZ swap, why not start some discussion about it? Supposedly they go for $500 a pop, but I dont know how much a toyota RWD tranny costs, or how to get it to mate to a T-56, and the prices of new cams, internals if need be, etc.

That, and apparently the aftermarket for it is mostly in Australia. Ah, those crazy aussies... would you know they make ITB manifolds for LSx engines?

Anyway, if anyone has information to share about it, please do. Ive heard things such as 400 horse on the stock internals @ high rpms (7500?) is possible but I have no idea what in the way of cams and exhaust that would require, or the prices of any of this.

The only aftermarket for engines Im really knowledgeable at all is the ford 2.3 (and the 2.5 stroker, woo hoo) and the domestic small block ford/chevy world. If anyone has anything to add, please do!

krackerx7

iTrader: (1)

I got this on another forum.

After many questions and requests, i finally gave up and put a tape measure on a 1uz myself.

Here are the measurements i got, may be useful for anyone who is considering this engine, and is a bit short on space.

Overall Width Of motor, including dipstick - 650mm. Dispstick only about 10mm.
Overall length of motor, not including engine fan - 680mm
Height of motor. 590mm. This measurement is from the uppermost part of the sump to the top of the manifold, ie how much clearance you would need from your crossmember/steering rack to the bonnet.
Bellhousing mount is approx 380mm circle. It was 380 across and 380 high, and thiat did include the small protrusion for the starter motor sprocket.

Other Facts.
Tapper covers go back as far as bell housing mount.
Traction control module, if you plan on using it, sticks up about 15mm from manifold.
Engine mounts can be used on either side, except in front sump version, as you sump would sit on top of cross member.

Thats about it. If anyone else can add more useful data and measurements, feel free, the more info on offer for this moter, the more it will be used.

krackerx7

iTrader: (1)

I got it off of here http://lextreme.com/forums/ its a lexus/toyota V8 forum

capn

YES more info!

I am sold on this engine I will ditch my Northstar for this because its cheaper lighter small and more aftermarket support.

http://www.1uzfe.com/

this is a GREAT site for information on the 1uz

also www.lextreme.com is a great site

capn

Engines came in the following cars


SC400 1992-1996
GS400 ?
LS400 1990-1994
Most junkyards have them all around $500

Merc63

The engine is 26" square. Most of the US ones are 250-270 hp. They weigh about 400 lbs, all up.

Cheap to buy, anywhere from $500-1000 depending on year and condition. ALL of them in the US came with computer controlled automatics. There are aussie bellhousings to mate to a number of differnt transmissions (the Toyota W58 and R124, as well as the T5 and T56). There are adaptors to mate the TH350/TH400/&00R4/200R4 also.

You can get the W58 trans here for cheap (I paid $50 for mine). BUT, the cost of adapting the engine to any manual trans OR any non-Toyota automatic is pricey. Anywhere from $500-1000 for a bellhousing or adaptor plate, and then you have to get a flywheel and clutch setup (any flywheel will be a custom unit). if adapting to a different auto, you need a custom torque converter or a set of adaptors from the flexplate to the torque converter.

Now, to get it to run in a non-Lexus, you need a standalone ECU to run the injection and the ignition. the more popular ones are also rather expensive. i want to use the MegaSquirt setup to run both, and do away with the dual distributors, as the engine looks damn sexy with very little on it...

Nihilanthic

Hmm... now Im intrigued!

The one thing that made me avoid this and instead go with the 2.3 was I actually knew the prices involved, and $/power range (at least generally), and I was able to find out what restricts what - what the headflow is good for, what the cam is good for, exhaust/intake limitations, and what parts of the valvetrain and rotating assembly is weak.

Well, that and T-5s are kind of generic for domestics anyway, and an adaptor plate mounted to the 2.3 lets you use a v8 bellhousing and a T-56 should you want 6 speeds or need/want strength but dont want to go for a G-force... oh, and a bigger diameter clutch if you dont want unsprung pucks.

So, basically, what Im asking, is...

What kind of torque can a W58 take? How big is it relative to a T-5 or a T-56 or T-II tranny, or any other trannies we've put into FCs before? WHY is it so expensive to adapt a 1UZ to a toyota tranny like W58, exactly?

What are the limits of the valvetrain and rotating assembly in the UZ v8? What power can you make NA, and where do you get into "unstreetable" NA territory? Whats the price of cams and heads, or headwork? What about forced induction? Are stock manifolds any good or would you need to source aftermarket logs, and are any aftermarket headers any good? Are any aftermarket headers available for NA?

Basically, when I started this thread I wanted to see how much real info I could get out here for people to see... Im a geek at heart and, well, I do like to soak up info, and I dont mind sharing what I find out. But there were just too many unknowns for me to jump in, and I was able to sponge off turboford (and some very knowledgeable posters) so Ive decided to take a well informed path for my first swap project. I am still interested in how this still plays out, though.

Nihilanthic

Ok, just lurked a few forums. Apparently their output isnt especially hot in stock form, but the block and rotating assembly seems fairly strong. So, if you could very cheaply get a 1uz/tranny/M.S. put into a FC it might be a competetor to the LT1, as Ive seen those pullouts run about ~~1.5-2.5K. But, well, stock LT1s seem to dyno a 10-20 whp higher than the stock 1UZ.

Ho hum.

Basically, it seems to me F.I. is the way to go to make power from these, unless you want to spend a ton of money. Ive also seen that the stock 1UZ early heads didnt really flow too great (quoted "124cfm at .300" on lextreme) but Im not sure of the availability and pricing of the later heads that apparently flow more.

Anyone here know more than I do care to fill me in on the holes? Im just starting to research all of this but it seems if you want to keep it cheep youre gonna be blowin' or boostin', and then its a good platform for that - having more displacement, and more ports to flow, with than a 4cyl, and the ability to handle more power and spool faster than the current bang/buck boost bargain, the 2.3, this could definitely fill a great niche for people out to swap engines and want good bang/buck boosted performance... or people who just dont like pushrods or domestic motors

BTW, any info about their weight? Ive been schmoozing around forums and it seems a LS1 would weigh less! Hrm... lots of variables in play here.

If its possible to get it running with a good manual tranny and standalone ('squirt?) on the cheap and boost on it it could be a good bargain, apparently the internals are good up to 650 whp - Ive been told taking a 2.3T above 450whp is going to almost necessitate filling the block unless you want a ticking time bomb, plus that amount of displacement just cant spool that much turbo that quickly. But, well, thats assuming you want to do the swap for a cheap boosted motor, so thats why I compared it to the lima.

Well, thats my OPINION anyway... Im very open to being corrected here, and I'd love to hear more facts, especially good estimates of how much $$$ to get whatever power you're trying to get - and, especially, what trannies can hold how much power.

andrewb70

Dude....do you even have a car?

Andrew

Nihilanthic

More digging for the lurkers. Apparently the W58 isnt the strongest tranny out there (quoted 300-350 hp!), the lextreme forums tend to adopt them to GM trannies:
http://www.lextreme.com/th400.html

Theres a good link for a D-I-Y'selfer. Does anyone know more specifics about the clutch/flywheel/throw out bearing stuff youd need to mate it to a manual?

BTW, what kind of ignition does the 1UZ use?

Merc63

The W58 isn't the strongest, but it's the most common, and will handle up to 400 hp. The R124 is stronger (the newer Supra unit) but more expensive. I dont' plan on having more than 300 hp (if that) so a W58 is a perfect choice (or so i thought).

The costs are simply due to there being a small market, and most companies trying to engineer to Lexus standards. A custom flywheel can run upwards of $800, as can a clutch setup. Of course, you need adaptors, the ones I've paid for (but haven't recieved yet) were $400 as a group buy, but normally $700. A complete custom bellhousing from Dellow or CRS would be more. Again, the problem is that the 1UZ was never available with a manual trans, and it has a unique crank bolt pattern and bellhousing bolt pattern, so everything has to be custom made. The Ford 5.0 and the Chevy V8s were all available with a manual trans in stock form, so there are cheap factory parts for them. Same with the turbo 2.3.

The only MegaSquirt 1UZs that I know of that run are turbocharged units (though one guy on lextreme is documenting the install of a setup on an N/A engine, which is what I want to do with mine) And yes, turbos are the way to big power with them. The bottom ends are extremely strong, and can handlea lot of boost. But since they are only 4 liter engines, in N/A form, there are still limits on how much power you can easily make. Again, part of that is that there are few companies making performance parts for them, and they are expensive. A set of cams (and you need 4 of them) runs upwards of $800-1000. Any porting or larger valves, or higher comperssion pistons are going to be custom one-off setups and pricey. Individual throttle bodies are the hot ticket, but $1500-up. I've seen 500 hp from an N/A 1UZ with custom cams, headwork, higher compression pistons, and individual throttle bodies, but it costs about $4k to do. turbocharging is easier, and makes more power.

Merc63

That link on the TH400 trans is a bit misleading. That's a one-off adaptor, not been proven yet, and it uses a $700, custom torque converter. So far, there is only one car with that setup in it (the one they were building that particular adaptor for) and it hasn't run under it's own power. I've already asked about vibration problems from misalignment, as they din't use ANY dowels to line it up, just did it by eye. Lextreme doesn't yet know if it'll vibrate or not.

The 1UZ uses dual distributors off the ends of the cams. A number of people have adapted the Ford EDIS and wasted spark coilpacks being run by a standalone or piggyback computer, like a Link or Wolf.

Nihilanthic

Damn. Kinda killed it for me. Still interested in the Japanese v8s though, but its not for me.

BTW, the link was for the adaptor plate so that you could mount it up to a GM bell - but obviously youd need a custom flywheel and whatnot to make it work. And the prices youd have to pay for it all are killing the bargain part of it. At least the engine itself is cheap if the aftermarket ever 'matures'.

As far as alignment, thanks for pointing that out!

It would seem this is defintely a project for those who dont mind tying up a lot of loose ends, or someone whose willing to sell kits *hint hint* later down the line if theres interest in 1UZ swaps in the future.

Ill stick to cheap and easy. Call me lazy, but one dizzy and half the cyls are fine with me.

rarson

I believe Dellow is the company that makes the T5 adapter. If it were me, I'd go with a TKO tranny, which is basically a T-5 that's rated to 600 hp. The other benefit of the TKO is that there are a lot of options for gearing.

The cool thing about the 1UZ is, although a lot of the stuff is kind of expensive, there are a lot of parts for them down under. Kelford makes cams and ITB kits to use 4AG ITB's. Another awesome thing is 6-bolt mains. The stock stuff should be able to make at least 350 horsepower pretty easily, but with aftermarket pistons and rods, lots of power should be easy with FI.

The later 1UZ and 3UZ engines have VVTi on them, and the cam scissor gears are in the wrong place, so using a VVTi engine would require custom regrinds for cam options. And of course a way to control the VVTi. The engines come in multiple sump configurations, so obviously choose the sump that'll fit your vehicle.

The 3UZ gains it's extra displacement through a bigger bore. Stock bore, the 1UZ has a LOT of room. From the research I've done, it should be easily possible to bump the stock bore (87.5mm) to around 97mm with new sleeves (www.lasleeve.com makes tons of sleeves). The 2UZ is a 4.7L version of the engine with a slightly longer stroke; most people want to swap the crank in but IMO that's completely unnecessary for the minimal gain. A better idea would be to regrind the crank's huge 52mm rod journals down to Honda's 48mm rod size and find some Nascar takeouts in the right width. Nascar engines often use the Honda rod journal size, and a brand new set of Crower Maxi-lites go for $700 on ebay all day long.

The rod journal grinding can be done offset to increase the stroke. The 1UZ has a really high R/S ratio already, so there's a lot of room to work with. The engine should be able to rev to... probably 10k, fairly easily, with a little bit of work. The 1UZ has extremely good geometry. It's a short-stroke, long-rod engine much like Nissan's VH45 or Toyota's own race 1UZ engines.

rarson

The 1UZ has 3 extra cams, 16 extra valves, a much longer timing belt setup, and is DOHC. OHV engines do have the advantage of being much more compact, so I'd guess that this, along with the "simpler" valvetrain of the OHV engine, would result in a lighter weight for the LS1.

I know the 1UZ fits in an NA Miata (that's the first-gen). Hmmm... LS1 in an NB Miata? Now that would be awesome!

The thing is though, I just looked at LS1's on ebay, and the price for engine + tranny is typically around $3500-4000. The 1UZ, without tranny, is almost a tenth of the price. So for someone considering this versus an LS1 swap, and perhaps if power is not the primary concern, then even with the extra costs involved it might be worth looking into. The 1UZ does sound a bit unique, compared to other typical OHV V8's.

rarson

Ummm... wow.

Merc63

yeah, I saw that when he posted it. But:

"CP pistons (custom)
Arrow rods (custom)
Custom cams
Custom valvesprings
Arrow lifter buckets (custom)
Heads ported
Twin ITS 61mm turbos
Twin HKS GT2 (50mm) wastegates
Tial Blow offs
Custom made intake (home made)
Custom made exhaust manifold (home made)
Delfi 96lb injectors
Autronic SM4 ECU"

That Autronic ECU cost almost 2 grand by itself. And the cost of the custom pistons, rods, and cams?

These engines are extremely strong, and can take massive boost, and are, lately, inexpensive to buy (though usually they will be closer to a grand here in the US vs the $480 I paid for mine). But the added costs ARE considerably higher to get them all connected and running in a non-Lexus. And that's for a lower power version. Yeah, the stock LSx is a bit more money up front, but it puts out more power, and by the time teh costs of transmissions, adapters, and ECUs are aded in, your only benefit is that ithe 1UZ would be unique. I've conmmitted myself to this path in my '63 COmet for the uniqueness factor, but it's not the cheaper route to a running car. I could have got similar power from a nearly stock 5.0 and could have had a bolt-in solution for under a grand total (engine, trans, wiring, exhaust).

OTOH, on the Lextreme for sale area there's a later 4.3 liter version w/375 hp for $2k...

rarson

I would think the 5.0 would be a lot cheaper than the LS1, though I haven't checked. Another bonus is that T-5's are a dime a dozen. Is there a kit out there to drop in the 5.0?

I agree that the 1UZ is an expensive option when you add it all up. And the actual horsepower is a bit disappointing. But then again, it'd be pretty awesome to have a bored and stroked 1UZ with VVTi. Too bad the VVTi puts a real premium on the price of the engine.

owen is fat

hmmm, I remember seeing pics of the Lexus DOHC V8 in a Miata in Europe and I thought he posted info on the big US miata site. he used a 5 speed older gen Supra trans and I dont remember any mention of expensive bellhousing adapters and such parts. maybe I assumed it was an easy bolt up install for him but maybe it wasnt.

it seems like a silly swap to go thru if a manual trans swap adds any more costs... because a '98 LS1T56 complete swap can be found for $2000-$3000 and thats all been documented, which will save you amazing amounts of time getting your car up and running.

capn

I am having trouble finding JUST an LS1 for $2500, let alone for a LS1T56 combo for that. I could do a cheap 5.0 swap, but i just dont feel like working with pushrods anymore, I want a techy little V8 and the 1UZ delivers that (at a good price too). But I am going with the TKO 600 for my tranny on the 1UZ, and a bellhousing from Dellow auto out of Australia i think it is $500 AUS. I also have to source a clutch combo from either Bullet supercars or Dellow auto.

rarson

Me too.