blackkiller7

This is for all who dont know how to use a search and come simply to ask questions that have been covered a hundred times. If you would like any more info on the conversion go to www.torquecentral.com and click on the V8 RX7 section.

DamonB

Dammit man, you know people on this forum don't deal in facts! It's all rampant speculation and opinion

Crash Test Joey

iTrader: (1)

AHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAH! Can we get this made a sticky?

blackkiller7

thats what im hoping

Maxthe7man

So why does one of the ls1 converted FC's thats driving around here look like someone parked wonder womans invisible cement truck on the hood...? An the *** end is stuck up in the air like a cat in heat... Sorry, but from the conversions driving around here, a post on an internet forum is not going to make me a believer...Max

Hmm heres a strange thread for a v8-rx7 forum..

http://www.torquecentral.com/showthread.php?t=26518

Not to be mean or anything, but thumbs up for making the car so much more reliable...

http://www.torquecentral.com/showthread.php?t=26418

Truthfully,one of the fastest autocross cars locally is a crate motored FC, to be brutally honest, with the money he spent in suspension pieces to make that car handle after the swap, he could have probably pulled off a 4 rotor p/port swap with suspension upgrades on top of it...He's got the best of the best on his car, and he did a fairly nice job...And if you are gonna do something like that, I think the engine is gonna be the cheapest part of the overall swap to make it complete..

owen is fat

um, its just too bad you cant read. the guy's post you are referring to has an LT1 motor, not an LS1. yes, the LT1 is heavier than the LS1. also you can see that he still has stock shocks/springs... the car being lower in front is a result of the added weight (um, 100 pounds?) and keeping stock springs that have rates soft enough to lower the car a little with the added 100 pounds.

Max, what you should believe is whats in the posts of the few people that have had their cars cornerweighted after the swap since that is a very precise form of measurement, especially the LS1FD guys that this thread is specifically referring to.


lol, so you think it takes a load of money to "re-balance" an FC after an LS1 swap? it sure doesnt! maybe if you chose an all iron block motor but the LS1 is lightweight. My LS1FC on Tein Flex coilovers sat level on the recommmended perch-height and damper-height settings from Tein, isnt that cool? if you were right then I'd need to adjust them differently but I didnt. you just wait 'til I get my LS1FC cornerweighted... if its at or around 50/50 and still 2625 pounds or less, with full interior, you owe me a cup of coffee.

ebb

For one thing he has an LT1 in his car, not an LS1. That is iron block I believe vs. aluminum block in the LS1, suppose that has something to do with it. Also, and I don't know if this is true, the 2nd gen n/a was lighter up front to begin with and therefore sprung accordingly.

As for the one that blew, I hope you are not trying to say that a turbo rotary is more reliable than an LS1. I don't think anything else really needs to be said about that subject.

Check your facts on the weight of an LS1 vs. LT1 vs. 13brew with turbos and manifold bolted on and then post again when you know what your talking about.

Rx7thHeaven

And you dont think that a 4 rotor would be heavier than an Ls1!!! It just goes to show you, Its not the added weight that drives you guys crazy, it is the fact that it is not a rotary. If pettit racing found a way to put a 1000lb 1000hp 6 rotor in their track car, the rotards would make the day it was completed a national holiday, and say that they should take the car and put it on the track with the formula one cars.

Jonathan

<^>(-_-)<^>

so true. i love rotaries but there is a reason why im doing an ls1 right now into a s5 fc. I did my research and dollar for dollar, weight wise, performance wise... ls1 fc is a car/swap that i can build and is the best thing you can do. There are just so many haters out there cause they dont have the money to swap their motor or knowledge. So many internet racers these days. And people who are domestic vs import are annoying to me. Cause if you a true motorsports head you build something to make you go fast or handle good. doeesnt matter what u use. I got many haters here who heard about my new project and im going to make them eat their words.

68Sniper

iTrader: (1)

how much is the whole swap going to cost??? i myself is pondering the same swap

wingsfan

Hmmm, last I checked LT1s are not LS1s. Nice argument though.

Hmm, again not an LS1, but an older SBC that finally succumbed to a lot of abuse.

And no rotary has ever **** itself on a hard launch, right?

Keep your spinning triangles if that's what you're in to. Some of us just chose to go a different route. My swap added very little weight to my car, and likely increased the reliability (since I never blew the 13brew it's tough to say).

Maxthe7man

Actually pal, you are wrong, the car I was talking about being front tipped is an ls1, I even have some emails somewhere of the owner asking me for a set of coil overs I had for sale and if there was room on the coil over to add a second spring..

wingsfan

Well, the engine in the car in the first link you posted is definitely an LT1. Maybe you're talking about a different car needing coilovers?

The simple fact remains that the LS1 is not that much heavier than a 13brew complete with turbos and intercooler.

Maxthe7man

Actually no I don't think it would be heavier, scoots 4 rotor is 2 12a's non turbo how much do you think that weighs? Mazda's 13b based 4 rotor (13j) is 396 wet with accessories , a 4 rotor based on 12a would be lighter than the ls1 and could be pushed farther back into the tunnel than a v-8, its not all weight its positioning, and thats whats wrong with most of the v-8 rx-7 swaps I have observed is the engine is not pushed far enough back to balance the car..People tend to steer clear of firewall movemnet, but in alot cases it needs to be done...
It doesn't really bother me that its not a rotary, I have probably done more cross breed engine swaps that most people on this forum put together from jeeps to troopers to montero's to belairs.....I just find most of the rx-7 swaps I have seen to date, are half done hack jobs that ended up costing far more than just building a rotary properly, in a car designed around the characteristics of its original motor...
The autocross guy here has a nicely swapped car, it handles well, he told me he was up to about 30 k so far to complete the swap and make the car handle, but also to do that, the car ended up with alot of stuff stripped off the front and weight added to the back of the car, last time I talked to him,our cars weighed the same, and I had a 100 rwhp advantage on him, and mine still had air conditioning and power windows... So far dollar for dollar, he is 12k ahead of me... and slower...
I just find on the internet people tend to leave out half the details when it comes to swaps and seem leave out the bad traits...But go ahead boys, hack it up....Max

Maxthe7man

Yes if you re read, I did poke fun at that linked post, mainly because every v-8 7 swapper denies the cars are front heavy, but I found that post and kinda chuckled that it existed in a realm of people that deny that its a problem... But the guy that was asking me for coilover help is an ls-1 swapper and yes its nose heavy..
A stripped down single turbo with all the junk is gonna end up in the 325-350 range, again yeah its only a 50 lb down difference, bring out the pom poms, the key is , is where the added weight sits, and how high up it sits, and there in lies the problem...There is an art to engine swapping, not to many people do it very well...
One of the few swaps I was considering into a fb was a stroked rover motor, I have seen one pushed to 5 litres and 400 hp for 315 lbs wet with flywheel, and its a compact motor...Max

ebb

I am right that you linked me to an LT1 car. How many LS1/FD conversions have you seen? I thought most used Hinsons mounting kit which positions it very nicely, as far back as can be without moving the firewall. Also the crank it probably the heaviest part of the engine, at the bottom right?

Keep in mind this thread title is for FD, not FC. I don't know about the FC, but the only real data I have seen on the FD show minimal weight gain and no change in driving characteristics (except the power band of course).

Show us the nose heavy LS1/FD you are talking about, or have the owner drop in and tell us what he thinks.

Maxthe7man

Go re read the last post....

ian99rt

iTrader: (7)

Well just adding my 2 cents, i've got an FC that I put an all iron, 350 sbc in for about 400 hp. to my surprise, after doing the swap and comparing photos. my car sits a little higher in the front.

Now don't take me as stating that my v8 is lighter but i found very humerous to see my car sit higher. springs and shocks are goin in next week but i'm not worried bout weight ratio as long as it doesn't over steer like my roommates 71 charger (now thats nose heavy).

jimlab

Even Bill Hagen's LT1 FD with air conditioning, power steering, and emissions equipment (two cats) was well balanced. It might be considered a worst case scenario, coming in at about 2,900 lbs. minus the unnecessary 50 lbs. of ballast he added in the hatch because he assumed the worst. That's still lighter than a stock automatic Touring/PEP, BTW.

As far as weight balance, 50/50 weight distribution doesn't mean ****. It's something to shoot for, but it's not absolutely necessary for excellent handling. It's static weight distribution, and that changes as soon as you put a driver and/or passenger in the car and start driving it. Acceleration, braking, and cornering all change the weight distribution of the car. What is more important is that the car is corner balanced so that it behaves identically turning both left and right.

On the subject of reliability, not everyone can afford a fresh late-model crate engine for their conversion. Many people on limited budgets complete their conversions with whatever they've got handy or can find at the local junkyard. That includes tired high-mileage engines that occasionally spit a rod out the bottom of the oil pan when you treat them like a Pro Stock car. Only a complete fool would argue that an LS1 in an FD wasn't an infinite increase in reliability over the original powerplant.

And finally, don't give me any **** about the car being designed around the engine. Mazda could have just as easily used a piston engine if there weren't heritage involved, and the design wouldn't have changed significantly, if at all. Gearing might have been the only thing affected, since a reasonably sized piston engine wouldn't need a 14.0+ final drive in first gear to get 2,800 lbs. rolling...

Maxthe7man

Cough... no pull the other leg....

ebb

I agree about the rover, would be nice. I don't think we are talking about art though, that would imply something subjective. What we have here is something very easily measured and it should not even be an argument. CG can be calculated also as far as you high up arguement, anyone done this? Certainly you could easily compare the cg of the LS1 to the 13brew and come up with some real numbers instead of just saying it is art. The exterior of the FD is art, that is why I am saving mine with an LS1.

Maxthe7man

Hey Jim, there is 281 pages written by Yamaguchi that will give you all the **** you want about the car being designed around the engine... I could make a crack here about waiting for your book..but...

How about a reasonably sized rotary?.....
20b only needs a 10:88 first gear to get 3500 lbs of luxury mass moving...Max

Maxthe7man

Its in the fabrication skill and how its done, thats where the art is,to many people carve out sheet metal built substructures and just insert heavy iron for the mounts and what not, and thats when its a hack job and not art...Alot of peoples fab skills and choice of materials, leave alot to be desired...
Yes the exterior of the FD is art, and unfortunatly for some, so are the mechanicals of the car...Max

jimlab

I've got the book, but apparently I missed the part where Yamaguchi says that you can't put a V8 in the car because it wasn't designed with one...

With an automatic transmission. You do know how a torque converter works, don't you?

RX-Ben

At this point, it is just plain funny how NO ONE can base an argument for rotaries in terms of numbers or approach it in a scientific manner. Basing the foundations of your argument on anecdotal experiences and posturing as a protector of the car's "soul" are silly.
I like this one though- the chassis some how knows that it has a rotary in it, and won't perform up to its potential if the rotary is missing. Isn't that what you are implying? And somehow 281 pages of prose makes this thought legitimate?

I'm not even going to address the balance issue since Jim has. 50/50 is already a compromise for a moving car...on the track 40/60 is whole lot better. Beaming with pride that the car has 50/50 static weight distribution (with a rotary or an LS1, since they BOTH will give you that ratio) is simply false happiness.

I don't know whose swaps you've been looking at, but any of the available LS1 swap kits use materials as good if not better than what Mazda used. I have no idea who you saw using iron in their swap mounts, but none of the kits use it. There is so little fab needed for any of the swaps (assuming you go with one of the standards kits) that your rant about hack jobs shows your lack of research and experience with the LS1-RX7 swap in general.

Ben