THE LS1 FD IS NOT NOSE HEAVY< IT RETAINS THE 50/50 RATIO
02-06-05, 02:19 PM
#26
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: GA
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Maxthe7man
So why does one of the ls1 converted FC's thats driving around here look like someone parked wonder womans invisible cement truck on the hood...? An the *** end is stuck up in the air like a cat in heat... Sorry, but from the conversions driving around here, a post on an internet forum is not going to make me a believer...Max
Hmm heres a strange thread for a v8-rx7 forum..
http://www.torquecentral.com/showthread.php?t=26518
Not to be mean or anything, but thumbs up
for making the car so much more reliable...
http://www.torquecentral.com/showthread.php?t=26418
Truthfully,one of the fastest autocross cars locally is a crate motored FC, to be brutally honest, with the money he spent in suspension pieces to make that car handle after the swap, he could have probably pulled off a 4 rotor p/port swap with suspension upgrades on top of it...He's got the best of the best on his car, and he did a fairly nice job...And if you are gonna do something like that, I think the engine is gonna be the cheapest part of the overall swap to make it complete..
Hmm heres a strange thread for a v8-rx7 forum..
http://www.torquecentral.com/showthread.php?t=26518
Not to be mean or anything, but thumbs up
for making the car so much more reliable...http://www.torquecentral.com/showthread.php?t=26418
Truthfully,one of the fastest autocross cars locally is a crate motored FC, to be brutally honest, with the money he spent in suspension pieces to make that car handle after the swap, he could have probably pulled off a 4 rotor p/port swap with suspension upgrades on top of it...He's got the best of the best on his car, and he did a fairly nice job...And if you are gonna do something like that, I think the engine is gonna be the cheapest part of the overall swap to make it complete..
ok Im gonna be nice . READ THE TITLE OF THE THREAD ...........FD! thank you
Last edited by blackkiller7; 02-06-05 at 02:28 PM.
02-06-05, 02:23 PM
#27
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: GA
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Maxthe7man
Actually no I don't think it would be heavier, scoots 4 rotor is 2 12a's non turbo how much do you think that weighs? Mazda's 13b based 4 rotor (13j) is 396 wet with accessories , a 4 rotor based on 12a would be lighter than the ls1 and could be pushed farther back into the tunnel than a v-8, its not all weight its positioning, and thats whats wrong with most of the v-8 rx-7 swaps I have observed is the engine is not pushed far enough back to balance the car..People tend to steer clear of firewall movemnet, but in alot cases it needs to be done...
It doesn't really bother me that its not a rotary, I have probably done more cross breed engine swaps that most people on this forum put together from jeeps to troopers to montero's to belairs.....I just find most of the rx-7 swaps I have seen to date, are half done hack jobs that ended up costing far more than just building a rotary properly, in a car designed around the characteristics of its original motor...
The autocross guy here has a nicely swapped car, it handles well, he told me he was up to about 30 k so far to complete the swap and make the car handle, but also to do that, the car ended up with alot of stuff stripped off the front and weight added to the back of the car, last time I talked to him,our cars weighed the same, and I had a 100 rwhp advantage on him, and mine still had air conditioning and power windows... So far dollar for dollar, he is 12k ahead of me... and slower...
I just find on the internet people tend to leave out half the details when it comes to swaps and seem leave out the bad traits...But go ahead boys, hack it up....Max
It doesn't really bother me that its not a rotary, I have probably done more cross breed engine swaps that most people on this forum put together from jeeps to troopers to montero's to belairs.....I just find most of the rx-7 swaps I have seen to date, are half done hack jobs that ended up costing far more than just building a rotary properly, in a car designed around the characteristics of its original motor...
The autocross guy here has a nicely swapped car, it handles well, he told me he was up to about 30 k so far to complete the swap and make the car handle, but also to do that, the car ended up with alot of stuff stripped off the front and weight added to the back of the car, last time I talked to him,our cars weighed the same, and I had a 100 rwhp advantage on him, and mine still had air conditioning and power windows... So far dollar for dollar, he is 12k ahead of me... and slower...
I just find on the internet people tend to leave out half the details when it comes to swaps and seem leave out the bad traits...But go ahead boys, hack it up....Max
Last edited by blackkiller7; 02-06-05 at 02:30 PM.
02-06-05, 02:27 PM
#28
Schadenfreude...Ha Ha
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Maxthe7man
Its in the fabrication skill and how its done, thats where the art is,to many people carve out sheet metal built substructures and just insert heavy iron for the mounts and what not, and thats when its a hack job and not art...Alot of peoples fab skills and choice of materials, leave alot to be desired...
Yes the exterior of the FD is art, and unfortunatly for some, so are the mechanicals of the car...Max
Yes the exterior of the FD is art, and unfortunatly for some, so are the mechanicals of the car...Max
I'm going to go oout on a limb and say that you've never even seen an LS1 FD, much less ridden in, or driven one.
You should stick to **** that you have first hand experience with. Otherwise you're just speculating.
02-06-05, 02:29 PM
#29
Super Snuggles
Originally Posted by RX-Ben
At this point, it is just plain funny how NO ONE can base an argument for rotaries in terms of numbers or approach it in a scientific manner.
I like this one though- the chassis some how knows that it has a rotary in it, and won't perform up to its potential if the rotary is missing.
02-06-05, 02:32 PM
#30
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: GA
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE=How about a reasonably sized rotary?.....
20b only needs a 10:88 first gear to get 3500 lbs of luxury mass moving...Max[/QUOTE]
OH god its the almighty 20b
20b only needs a 10:88 first gear to get 3500 lbs of luxury mass moving...Max[/QUOTE]
OH god its the almighty 20b
02-06-05, 09:28 PM
#31
Full Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: BayArea,ca
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1993 touring modle 5-speed
Before
LF 729 RF 695
LR 705 RR 692
Total--2821lbs
After swap 1999 ls1/t56 trans ac and power steering
LF 748 RF 717
LR 683 RR 700
Total weight 2848lbs
Weight gain only 27lbs
I keep ac and power steering on my swap.
Just for comparison:
Stock
F/R: 50.5%/49.5%
L/R: 50.8%/49.2%
LS1
F/R: 51.4%/48.6%
L/R: 50.2%/49.8%
Before
LF 729 RF 695
LR 705 RR 692
Total--2821lbs
After swap 1999 ls1/t56 trans ac and power steering
LF 748 RF 717
LR 683 RR 700
Total weight 2848lbs
Weight gain only 27lbs
I keep ac and power steering on my swap.
Just for comparison:
Stock
F/R: 50.5%/49.5%
L/R: 50.8%/49.2%
LS1
F/R: 51.4%/48.6%
L/R: 50.2%/49.8%
02-07-05, 11:58 AM
#32
Rotary Freak
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 1,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Maxthe7Man" is just off his rocker... its obvious he has no real understanding of the LS1FD concept and is not up to date on the facts... gee imagine that, another rotary-lover who argues against V8swapped RX7's but would be willing to accept a behemoth of a 4 rotor setup even if it weighed exactly the same or more as a V8 swap and only because the "bloatary" setup (yes I just made that up) would position the added weight somethig like 1 or 2 inches lower in the engine bay?
show me the data.
show me proof and pictures.
who the **** spends 30 thousand dollars building a non-competitive V8rx7 autocross car? (besides a guy who cannot drive well) that story is total bullshit, sorry. Maxthe7Man, YOU are the guy leaving out details.. there are so many specifics to mention when comparing times on a tiny autox course.. length of course, small and tight or big and straight, wet or dry, tires choices, two driver or one driver car, did you beat him every event of the year? would he whoop your *** on a roadcourse instead of autox? the list goes on. did you beat him once and now you jump around chanting that you beat the $30k v8rx7... but you just beat him once?
anyhow.... its obvious to me and most of us in here that you dont know what youre talking about... sure you THINK you know but you are misinformed and lack a real world understanding of the concepts here. now I see how JimLab gets a little testy sometimes, I dont think this will ever end!!! Mazda's marketing department must have had some ex-****'s working among the department... because Mazda's rotary-propoganda is incredibly potent!
show me the data.
show me proof and pictures.
who the **** spends 30 thousand dollars building a non-competitive V8rx7 autocross car? (besides a guy who cannot drive well) that story is total bullshit, sorry. Maxthe7Man, YOU are the guy leaving out details.. there are so many specifics to mention when comparing times on a tiny autox course.. length of course, small and tight or big and straight, wet or dry, tires choices, two driver or one driver car, did you beat him every event of the year? would he whoop your *** on a roadcourse instead of autox? the list goes on. did you beat him once and now you jump around chanting that you beat the $30k v8rx7... but you just beat him once?
anyhow.... its obvious to me and most of us in here that you dont know what youre talking about... sure you THINK you know but you are misinformed and lack a real world understanding of the concepts here. now I see how JimLab gets a little testy sometimes, I dont think this will ever end!!! Mazda's marketing department must have had some ex-****'s working among the department... because Mazda's rotary-propoganda is incredibly potent!
02-12-05, 10:56 PM
#34
Rotary Freak
So we have people who haven't even tried one of these conversions arguing against people who have done it AND weighed their cars...hmm...what would be a more credible source of information, I wonder?
02-14-05, 01:19 PM
#36
Gone Darkside
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Irmo, SC USA
Posts: 2,569
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good job on your findings! Personally, I still prefer the rotary, with it's inherent flaws AND highlights; however, it's nice to see that you're not really losing anything by doing the swap.
Even so, I bet that my 20B... Just kidding.
Mods, make this a sticky!
Reese
Even so, I bet that my 20B... Just kidding.
Mods, make this a sticky! Reese
02-14-05, 02:16 PM
#37
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: GA
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 20B10AE
Good job on your findings! Personally, I still prefer the rotary, with it's inherent flaws AND highlights; however, it's nice to see that you're not really losing anything by doing the swap.
Even so, I bet that my 20B... Just kidding. Mods, make this a sticky!
Reese
Even so, I bet that my 20B... Just kidding.
Mods, make this a sticky! Reese
02-14-05, 02:32 PM
#38
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by snub disphenoid
So we have people who haven't even tried one of these conversions arguing against people who have done it AND weighed their cars...hmm...what would be a more credible source of information, I wonder?
Originally Posted by DamonB
Dammit man, you know people on this forum don't deal in facts! It's all rampant speculation and opinion
02-14-05, 03:03 PM
#39
10AE LS1 Swap In Progress
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 20B10AE
Good job on your findings! Personally, I still prefer the rotary, with it's inherent flaws AND highlights; however, it's nice to see that you're not really losing anything by doing the swap.
Even so, I bet that my 20B... Just kidding. Mods, make this a sticky!
Reese
Even so, I bet that my 20B... Just kidding.
Mods, make this a sticky! Reese
I want a shot at that 20b when my LS1 is done since you're in the area!
02-14-05, 03:54 PM
#40
Gone Darkside
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Irmo, SC USA
Posts: 2,569
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Straight-line or turning? I'm shooting for pretty balanced overall but not looking to dominate in any particular area. I'm up for it for the fun, to be sure! I'm guessing that you'll be upgrading some of the internals while you're rebuilding? What do you have planned?
Currently, I'm running an unopened block with the stock twins in parallel. (Sucks a bit for response). Tuned well enough to get on it a little, but still way rich. Perhaps we can try to do a before and after? (i.e. stock 20B first, then streetported and single turbo once that gets done)
Sorry that we hi-jacked the thread, guys.
I'll keep an eye out for you at the Gap, 'black!
Reese
Last edited by 20B10AE; 02-14-05 at 03:59 PM.
02-14-05, 06:26 PM
#41
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: GA
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by NoRotor10AE
I want a shot at that 20b when my LS1 is done since you're in the area!
02-14-05, 09:34 PM
#42
10AE LS1 Swap In Progress
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 20B10AE
Straight-line or turning? I'm shooting for pretty balanced overall but not looking to dominate in any particular area. I'm up for it for the fun, to be sure! I'm guessing that you'll be upgrading some of the internals while you're rebuilding? What do you have planned?
Currently, I'm running an unopened block with the stock twins in parallel. (Sucks a bit for response). Tuned well enough to get on it a little, but still way rich. Perhaps we can try to do a before and after? (i.e. stock 20B first, then streetported and single turbo once that gets done)
Sorry that we hi-jacked the thread, guys.
I'll keep an eye out for you at the Gap, 'black!
Reese
wait, i want to make it REALLY balanced..
as in REALLY fast REALLY quick REALLY nimble but unfortunately all that makes it REALLY expensive
02-14-05, 09:35 PM
#43
10AE LS1 Swap In Progress
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by blackkiller7
norotor ,you starting the ls1 conversion or upgrading? might have to do a little run at the gap
02-14-05, 11:11 PM
#44
Gone Darkside
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Irmo, SC USA
Posts: 2,569
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by NoRotor10AE
i'm just out to build a balanced car to have fun with...
wait, i want to make it REALLY balanced..
as in REALLY fast REALLY quick REALLY nimble but unfortunately all that makes it REALLY expensive
wait, i want to make it REALLY balanced..
as in REALLY fast REALLY quick REALLY nimble but unfortunately all that makes it REALLY expensive
Very fun, but increasingly expensive!
Nice to see that we share the same basic idea for our cars, although our powerplants differ.
02-15-05, 11:06 AM
#45
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: GA
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by NoRotor10AE
starting... have the 13B drivetrain removed and am looking for the rest of the body pieces that I need to get it ready for paint... then the LS1 fun begins...
Starting
hey im sure you know but you might want to put it into overdrive. So I can get a shot at your ls1 FC
02-15-05, 02:45 PM
#46
10AE LS1 Swap In Progress
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
haha
college + work = slowly progressing RX7-LS1 project
but since i'm almost done, thies thing will really get goin when the summer hits and I have a better place to work on it and more time with less devoted to school (finally)
college + work = slowly progressing RX7-LS1 project
but since i'm almost done, thies thing will really get goin when the summer hits and I have a better place to work on it and more time with less devoted to school (finally)
02-22-05, 10:22 PM
#47
Full Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
These swap bashing threads are hilarious! I've never gotten involved in one, but I'm feeling bitchy tonight. This tirade will be directed at people bashing LS1/FD swaps or just engine swaps in general.
First off, forget the actual car specs and data for a minute. Consider the owner/driver of said vehicles:
What kind of modifications have YOU done to your car? How do YOU drive your car? I'm quite sure that 99.9% of the people that talk trash about these swaps have nothing more than a damn intake/boost controller/exhaust done to their own 7's. I'm also confident that the same percent have absolutely zero formal racing experience short of a Test & Tune drag race. That's right, e-brake turns in church parking lots does NOT count. That being the case, what the **** do you care if the CG of MY car changes?
Furthermore, what the **** gives you the right to bash something that took so much time, blood, and brains to build? Don't get me wrong, a FD/LS1 swap isn't Thermodynamics class, but if you seriously think that I've pulled the "soul" out of my car, you're way to dumb to pull off a swap.
Why did I buy an RX-7 to begin with? Well, clearly the weight distribution figures and unmatched reliability were what got me...
Horse ****! I bought it because it was different, fast, and attractive. Oh, and because it cost a ****-ton less than a Supra. What is my LS1/FD? Different, fast, and attractive, and I STILL haven't broken the cost of a good condition Supra!
Anyway, see you all at Deals Gap!
First off, forget the actual car specs and data for a minute. Consider the owner/driver of said vehicles:
What kind of modifications have YOU done to your car? How do YOU drive your car? I'm quite sure that 99.9% of the people that talk trash about these swaps have nothing more than a damn intake/boost controller/exhaust done to their own 7's. I'm also confident that the same percent have absolutely zero formal racing experience short of a Test & Tune drag race. That's right, e-brake turns in church parking lots does NOT count. That being the case, what the **** do you care if the CG of MY car changes?
Furthermore, what the **** gives you the right to bash something that took so much time, blood, and brains to build? Don't get me wrong, a FD/LS1 swap isn't Thermodynamics class, but if you seriously think that I've pulled the "soul" out of my car, you're way to dumb to pull off a swap.
Why did I buy an RX-7 to begin with? Well, clearly the weight distribution figures and unmatched reliability were what got me...
Horse ****! I bought it because it was different, fast, and attractive. Oh, and because it cost a ****-ton less than a Supra. What is my LS1/FD? Different, fast, and attractive, and I STILL haven't broken the cost of a good condition Supra!
Anyway, see you all at Deals Gap!
02-23-05, 12:47 AM
#48
Originally Posted by Maxthe7man
there is 281 pages written by Yamaguchi that will give you all the **** you want about the car being designed around the engine...
i could careless about the car being made and designed around the engine. obviously other swaps work as well and people do not have real frets about it.
it's almost............ hearsay even if he wrote the book.
02-23-05, 01:57 PM
#49
Super Snuggles
Originally Posted by d0 Luck
it's almost............ hearsay even if he wrote the book.
Of course Yamaguchi hyped how the car was designed around the engine and how special the engine is and blah blah blah. He was paid to make the book interesting to its target audience. The entire point was to make rotary lovers want to buy the book. That doesn't mean that every word in the book is fact, though. It's his interpretation of fact. Readers then interpret Yamaguchi's interpretation, and so on.
For example, many otherwise intelligent people misunderstood the section on the PPF and thought that it made the chassis more rigid, when in fact, all it does is rigidly link the differential and transmission and suspend the drivetrain from the motor and differential mounts. When those bushings fail with age, the drivetrain gets sloppy, not the chassis, yet there are probably still people out there that believe the PPF is a structural member of the chassis after reading Yamaguchi's book. See what I mean about interpretation not equaling fact?
Yamaguchi's book certainly makes an attractive addition to anyone's coffee table, and it's full of pretty pictures, but that's all it is. It is not the bible on the 3rd gen. RX-7, and should not be taken as such. I put more faith in my shop manual, frankly, and nowhere in my shop manual did it say that I couldn't put a V8 in the car after following the instructions for pulling the rotary.
