Leeroy_25

Has anyone tried to shoe horn a VH45 V8 into an FD chassis yet or is it a physical no go? Or maybe it's more hassle than an LS1?

Thoughts please?!

SENZA PARI

I'm not going to say it's not possible (I'm all for modifying whatever necessary to make something work...), but he VH is a wide motor, quite a bit more so than any LS series motor. I want to say 28" across??

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I daily drive a Q45 (technically I have a VH41). They're not bad engines, but for what they are they're pretty dated. Yes they're aluminum DOHC V8's, but the horsepower output is still less than a new V6 mustang engine (seriously), although same claim it's underrated. They have variable valve timing but it is on the intake cams only and it is crude (fixed amount of cam advance). The early VH45's also have timing chain problems as they age. The vacuum routing is very complicated so you will have to block off a bunch of crap. The aftermarket is pretty limited especially compared to any LSx engine. Just think about the money you will most likely have to spend on a standalone, where an LSx will run fine on a reprogrammed factory computer for most setups.

Also, swapping in any kind of DOHC engine is a big pain in the *** because the DOHC heads are much taller. Pull the valve cover off a DOHC overhead cam V engine and a pushrod V engine and you'll know exactly what I mean. If you're in the UK I bet there are hardly any LSx swaps over there. It would still be a "unique" thing to do. Hell I doubt there are many Corvettes, Camaros, or other GM performance cars in general but I've never actually actually been to the UK so what do I know.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

"Many", no- but you'd probably be surprised at the number you'd see.

Then you drive around for a few days and it'd be completely obvious why...fuel is stunningly expensive and most secondary roads are slightly improved medieval ox trails.
However, Britain lovingly cossets it's eccentrics and they're determined to let their freak flag fly...in the form a gigantic (in comparison to more "normal" European car) American, lane-scraping boat.

For a particularly hilarious example, see Coltrane In A Cadillac (aired on PBS, IIRC) a series where Robby Coltrane drives across America in a '56 Caddy.
He fell in love with the car and took it back to Merrie Olde England with him.
Scenes of that gigantic car navigating around his home roads is priceless.

Leeroy_25

Hey guy's thanks for some info there. firstly I gather in raw form the VH45 actually puts out something like 310bhp? compared to a 5.7 LS1 at around 360bhp? I have found a lot of varying figures so I am not sure which is correct? So BHP/Litre the VH45 is higher if those figures are right? I also was under the impression the VH45 ECU can be re-progammed to or is that not the case? I read you can have it re-mapped at least to change the stock rpm limit of 6900 -7400rpm?
wiki says it has forged steel crank and rods and other high quality internals you would normally find in a race engine which is great for a stock motor hence the high redline for a V8 I guess. Although I guess it's light for it's size (not sure if it's lighter than an LS1? It is big! 29" wide,35" long and 28" high which if the dimensions I found for the LS1 are correct that's like 5" bigger all around!
Plus side they seem to bea lot cheaper to get hold of.. There is limited aftermarket options But I guess that depends on how far you want to go with it? Transmission wise is there a manual box that it will hook right up to as I guess Q45's are all auto's?

Arghx _ I think and LS1 swap would be pretty rare also. However I am aiming to be unique on my next project though!!

As for imports over here.. I would say in general the last 3 years it has become more popular and you see more import cars on the road be it Japanese or US. Maybe it boomed quite heavily a couple of years back when the exchange rate was really good for us.. It has definately slowed down a lot now and yes you are correct they rape our *** for petrol over here! it makes me livid. There is just no need for it but there is nothing we can do. We have tried road blocks and strikes a couple of times which worked for a while then everyone just seems to forget and up it goes again!
Road wise they are generally quite small over here but I would say in my experience of the US roads which is mainly New York ours are a lot better condition. some of the pot holes you guy's have in the roads you would loose one of our little cars in!

billyboy

If you were going to go Nissan - and I've said it before, VQ35 would be the preference for me, there's a bit of tuning knowledge in the UK too, think it was Pilbeam ran a hi-po endurance version some years back.

VH45 has a very impressive bottom end, heads don't seem to bad, 90* V limits what you can do to some extent. Here's a supercharged version going into a GTR, manifolding was a nightmare to wrap around 4wd take-off and quite a bit of work required with power steering and alternator drives and a thousand and one things required for fit. One of the SUVs in the US has an enlarged open block design of the same engine too, 5.4 litres??

Leeroy_25

That is a beast! Seeing it in a gtr show's how big it is.. It's not like the RB26 is small! That said the engine bay probaly isn't that big in a GTR in comparrison to the motor. I found a few S14's with VH45 conversions. Seems to suit that quite nicely! Back to the drawing board I think. I will research the VQ35.

Lee

import madness

for your manual gearbox,z32 one w/ mazworks adaptator plate

there's a vid on youtube of a speedboat in australia it has a vh45 twin turbo,around 800hp,pretty fast
if you want more infos on the vh go to nico club there's a section dedicated to it
but maybe you already saw it?

vq35 is way more expensive !!!
but to each his own

aa35199

iTrader: (1)

I saw a few pics of a vh45 in a first gen rx7 on v8rx7forum. It was a tight fit, and the hood had to be cut but it worked. Check out hybridz.org may not be rx7 specific but there are a few thorough build threads involving the swapping and upgrading of the VH45.


Here's a great build thread, vh45 into a 240z with a ton of pics http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php?...-tons-of-pics/

Leeroy_25

Thanks guy's. Some interesting reading. I had seen that Speed boat on you tube!!

craigztoyz

I specialize in unique engine swaps, including this swap. have to get my post count up, to post pics, havn't been on this site since I used to put SBC into Gen II's.
Craig

craigztoyz

2 more, sorry.

craigztoyz

last one before I can post my pics post.

craigztoyz

ok, 1 more, sorry

craigztoyz

I hope you liked, That was one of the ones I have built. I have done over a dozen VH45 swaps into Z32 300zx's, that 85 rx7, and am doing an 06 350Z @ the moment, so if you need info, or help, let me know.
We charge 4K for turn key engine swaps with VH45,5spd.
Craig





Yes a hole was needed. Best part was due to the 'tall tunnel ram, twisted sideways' intake makes tools think it is now FWD. happened alot.


Craigztoyz04@yahoo.com

Leeroy_25

Thanks for the pictures Craig and good work.. Nice to see something different.. So I guess you haven't tried to get one in an FD3 yet?? Possible? I am guessing without a lot of cutting of inner wings and re-fabbing it won't go??

Cheers
Lee

NoPistons!

iTrader: (3)

My neck hurts. That's cool as hell though!

craigztoyz

If i had an FD around to do it to, I'd do it over any other engine in there.

Been building 24 years, and I have driven Q45s since they came out. The motor is top notch, and until you drive a 5spd VH45, you have no idea. 200lbs of torque at 1000rpm is a blast, Z32's have 4.1 gears, so..........

On the fab. The Vh45 is 28" wide, It would fit just as well as it does in any RX7, Actually I still own an 87,88, 91. 91 has a SHO eng sitting in it, and the others are waiting, drove the 88 for about 10years, GXL.

I'd do it to an FD for under 5k, with little Vehicle Fabrication done.
The hood, would have to be modified, unless someone went with one of the newly designed ITB, or like I am designing, a new upper that is more like an LT5 upper.

When i do this swap to 300ZX's, 1990-1996, they loose around 300lbs off the front, due to the engines lightness, all aluminum, Forged internals, fully balanced. So as I found with the 85, the weight stayed within 50lbs at the end. Doing an FD, would be better then an LS1, for many reasons such as DOHC, VVT, Amazing head design, same with the Roller rockers, just spend 2 minutes really looking at a VH45 rockerarm in your hand, amazing. There are a great selection of cams being made, although across the pond, but whatever. Wes n Shane do great computer upgrades.
The motors love boost on stock internals, stock computer up to 10psi, Meth in warm weather for detenation of course.
Check out some of the vids online of these motors. Q45 5spd VH45 5spd



One of my favorite old builds, SBC, went to RENO, never heard about it again. Miss it





and the 350Z. Just wanting to show others the value of these motors.
yes the red Z45 runs great.


dirty mockup motor to check clearances, yes its resting sideways in pic

billyboy

Maybe in Nth America.

Virtually giving away the VHs down here, the bloke with the GTR picked up his last one for $Au500, which is amazing considering the tech involved. A mate also picked up a couple of VQs over the last couple of weeks from the importer, one older one for under 1k and the very latest direct injection one with engine driven fuel pump for only a little more.....thought it was a diesel first up! Perfect inside when stripped down....but oh, that exhaust manifold design, dear me. Anyhow, engine purchase price will only be a small portion of any conversion.

Might have a SR20 like tendency to not like the follower. One engine that was stripped, had spat one out of position somehow, the torque of the engine being sufficient for the Japanese driver to have run around on 7 cylinders oblivious for several thousand km judging by the wear patterns and build-ups.

craigztoyz

VH45's are cheap here. VG's are only pricey due to their newness.

You are very right about engine price in a build, although it is an very important part to consider, as it dictates the parts needed, for the build. Some you can use it all, some, its all from scratch.



I have seen this on one engine I got and used a year or so ago. Ran great, sounded great, pulled the covers, and WTF? one was kicked off to the side, popped it back in, and it ran as a champ, and still drifts it often.

When this happens, you are still having the cyl, but not the same airflow as with both valves open.

The reason it can happen, with older springs, is due to stiffness. We have a few sources for upgraded springs. And as they are similar to the sr20 motor......... alot of parts can be upgraded from them.

Leeroy_25

Hi Craig,
Thanks for the other info and pics.. Glad started the thread now!
I read upsome stuff on the VH45 and saw that it has very high spec internals.. race spec really.. or certainly more what you would expect to find in a modified engine. How does that compare to a LS1? I have not managed to find any specifics on that.
I presume the VH45 has to be heavier than an LS1 and due to the quite large size difference, this is why the LS1 is generally favored in swaps? On the face of it other than that the VH45 sounds like a good motor to me? I also have read that there are very limited mods available for the VH45? Which maybe is another downside? I am in the UK so would need to import something and have to consider how easy it will be for getting spares and upgrades for it!?
I would want manual and I coul dnot find an manual version of the VH45.. So is it a case of RX7 box and an adapter plate? or is there aother manual box that can be used and bolts straight up?

Cheers
Lee

craigztoyz

Thats why I responded, Figured i would get some correct info out, since i have learned alot about these over the years. Nissan built the motors for indy. That is why they are what they are. Only sold as auto. I have plates made to connect to 300zx-Z32 5spds, there are also a few other choices. 6- t56, the best choice z33, but not strong The motors share crank bolt pattern as Z32 pos v6. Weight is similar to ls1. VH internals are light, block does not have a single bit more aluminum then needed, you can see the cyl curves on valley and outterside of block, being DOHC, there is nothing between the heads, all in all, the weight is amazing. Power is very surprising, and loves to rev, built to handle 7K all day. Easy to boost, easy to run liveprogramming on ecu, (about 800$us for all the crap) I am about to do a Gen II for a customer in 2 or 3 weeks. He just bought the car today for the purpose. LS1's n such are still an old design, granted, I built my GN for 12 years, and am a chevy fan for life, these motors are just far superior, and love boost just as much. We for the most part are not aiming at 600hp, undriveable machines, a 400hp vehicle is perfect for most of my guys. Even stock at 330hp, my guys are usually very happy.
let me know if there are any pics in particular you would like to see for info, or if you want any guidance. Seriously I'd do it to an FD for under 5K complete, and It'd be a lot more fun then the LS1's. There are a few here in Austin.

Toyotarx7

iTrader: (13)

if needed i can do that swap for you, shoot me a PM and we can talk

Leeroy_25

Cheers Guy's I have some thinking to do but Will come back to this thread when the time is right! I guess I need a Z32 box then? Fitted to an FD? Or would you plan to make a new adapter for the FD and mod the box gearbox input shaft to suit the crank splines?!
I remember reading now the VH motors where done for indy.. So surprised they did not make much more effort for aftermarket parts/upgrades and support?

Regards
Lee

craigztoyz

Customer dropped off the GEN II rx7 today, getting it ready for the VH swap, will be my 24th VH install in something different then stock.

Which swap? What swaps have you done, experience with VH? Just curious, not alot of us VH builders out there, but over the last 2 years, a few new ones out there.