Hinson LS1 Conversion questions
01-17-04, 03:34 PM
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Hinson LS1 Conversion questions
I sent this to Hinson, but haven't had much luck with a respone yet. Figured I'd post it here and see if you guys can help out (since torquecentral.com seems to be down 
)
Well? 
)
Hello-
As a current C5 owner selling his Vette and looking for a new project, I stumbled across your web page. I am very interested in pursuing this project, although I have a few questions before I start down this path.
First off, let me say that, while I'm competent with a ratchet and torque wrench, I know my limits. If I see a piston, or valve spring, or differential, I know it's time to put the wrench down. I have done several brake jobs, installed cat-back exhaust systems, installed and wired up custom steroes, but never done an engine swap. Is this something I can handle on my own? What kind of disassembly is required on the FD, and will a simple socket set and basic screwdrivesr and hand tools cut it for equipment (or will I need a compressor, air tools, some specialized equipment, etc.)? Also, Is there any kind of step-by-step manual included on your site, or an overview of the process, so that I know what I'm getting into? I just want to make sure I'm not out of my league and end up having to ship a car back to you guys to do $5000 worth of labor once I begin.
With that settled, I'd like to address a few parts concerns. Firstly, and most importantly, when pricing an LS1, what parts will I need on the motor? ECU, wiring harness, belts, hoses, radiator, A/C compressor, linkages, etc.? Is there a generic parts list that you guys have for download, or a list that you have for your turn-key conversions that you can send over? Secondly- what kind of transmission am I looking for? The C5 tranny is rear-mounted, so i'm assuming that I need an F-Body T56 (tunnel mounted)? Is there a preferred motor for the installation (Y-body vs. F-body)? I want to make sure that as I watch prices on EBay, the corvette forum, ls1.com, etc., I can get an accurate picture of the parts resale market.
Lastly, I have a few budgetary concerns. I want to make sure that once I embark on this project, I don't end up with an 85% finished car in my garage that still needs a $2500 part to get moving. For the time being, I will be happy with something that leaves me about 5-6 months of weekend work in the garage, and results in a car with an installed and functional motor in the donor car (any additional paint/repair/etc. needs of the donor car can be addressed later). The allotment I have so far is a $12,500 budget, sllotted as follows:
$6500- rolling chassis w/ straight frame in decent shape
$3500- LS1 motor and transmission
$1300- Hinson LS1 conversion
$1200- misc. parts and install pieces (bolts, hoses, fluids, wiring, necessary tools that I don't have yet, etc.)
Is this a sufficient budget to get me where I want to be?
I apologize for the length of the email- I tried to make sure I covered all my bases here. Thank you for your time in reading and responding, and please feel free to direct me to any other resources you think may be helpful in making my decision as to whether to pursue this project.
As a current C5 owner selling his Vette and looking for a new project, I stumbled across your web page. I am very interested in pursuing this project, although I have a few questions before I start down this path.
First off, let me say that, while I'm competent with a ratchet and torque wrench, I know my limits. If I see a piston, or valve spring, or differential, I know it's time to put the wrench down. I have done several brake jobs, installed cat-back exhaust systems, installed and wired up custom steroes, but never done an engine swap. Is this something I can handle on my own? What kind of disassembly is required on the FD, and will a simple socket set and basic screwdrivesr and hand tools cut it for equipment (or will I need a compressor, air tools, some specialized equipment, etc.)? Also, Is there any kind of step-by-step manual included on your site, or an overview of the process, so that I know what I'm getting into? I just want to make sure I'm not out of my league and end up having to ship a car back to you guys to do $5000 worth of labor once I begin.
With that settled, I'd like to address a few parts concerns. Firstly, and most importantly, when pricing an LS1, what parts will I need on the motor? ECU, wiring harness, belts, hoses, radiator, A/C compressor, linkages, etc.? Is there a generic parts list that you guys have for download, or a list that you have for your turn-key conversions that you can send over? Secondly- what kind of transmission am I looking for? The C5 tranny is rear-mounted, so i'm assuming that I need an F-Body T56 (tunnel mounted)? Is there a preferred motor for the installation (Y-body vs. F-body)? I want to make sure that as I watch prices on EBay, the corvette forum, ls1.com, etc., I can get an accurate picture of the parts resale market.
Lastly, I have a few budgetary concerns. I want to make sure that once I embark on this project, I don't end up with an 85% finished car in my garage that still needs a $2500 part to get moving. For the time being, I will be happy with something that leaves me about 5-6 months of weekend work in the garage, and results in a car with an installed and functional motor in the donor car (any additional paint/repair/etc. needs of the donor car can be addressed later). The allotment I have so far is a $12,500 budget, sllotted as follows:
$6500- rolling chassis w/ straight frame in decent shape
$3500- LS1 motor and transmission
$1300- Hinson LS1 conversion
$1200- misc. parts and install pieces (bolts, hoses, fluids, wiring, necessary tools that I don't have yet, etc.)
Is this a sufficient budget to get me where I want to be?
I apologize for the length of the email- I tried to make sure I covered all my bases here. Thank you for your time in reading and responding, and please feel free to direct me to any other resources you think may be helpful in making my decision as to whether to pursue this project.
01-17-04, 06:23 PM
#2
i sent him a similiar email stating that i am about in the same boat as you as far as tools and experience with working on cars. from what i here from him and others is that it is not that bad,i am just getting started on mine though so don't fully take my word for it! i figure it will be a good learning experience for me and it is always nice to be able to say that you did it yourself. i'm sure it will take me a bit longer than others, but it will be worth it in the end. you will want a driveline out of an fbody though as the corvette oil pan will not work with hinson's kit. as far as tools i have finally gotten an air compressor and borrowed an engine hoist. your misc parts estimate may be a little low though depending on how you tackle the cooling system(larger radiator), fuel system(braided lines, an fittings, pump,fpr,etc) and whether you do the wiring mods yourself or send the harness out(~400). i would ask the guys over at torquecentral.com for help, it would be nice if someone did a nice writeup with pics on the conversion, hmm maybe i will. -garrett
01-17-04, 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by turbogarrett
i sent him a similiar email stating that i am about in the same boat as you as far as tools and experience with working on cars. from what i here from him and others is that it is not that bad,i am just getting started on mine though so don't fully take my word for it! i figure it will be a good learning experience for me and it is always nice to be able to say that you did it yourself. i'm sure it will take me a bit longer than others, but it will be worth it in the end. you will want a driveline out of an fbody though as the corvette oil pan will not work with hinson's kit. as far as tools i have finally gotten an air compressor and borrowed an engine hoist. your misc parts estimate may be a little low though depending on how you tackle the cooling system(larger radiator), fuel system(braided lines, an fittings, pump,fpr,etc) and whether you do the wiring mods yourself or send the harness out(~400). i would ask the guys over at torquecentral.com for help, it would be nice if someone did a nice writeup with pics on the conversion, hmm maybe i will. -garrett
i sent him a similiar email stating that i am about in the same boat as you as far as tools and experience with working on cars. from what i here from him and others is that it is not that bad,i am just getting started on mine though so don't fully take my word for it! i figure it will be a good learning experience for me and it is always nice to be able to say that you did it yourself. i'm sure it will take me a bit longer than others, but it will be worth it in the end. you will want a driveline out of an fbody though as the corvette oil pan will not work with hinson's kit. as far as tools i have finally gotten an air compressor and borrowed an engine hoist. your misc parts estimate may be a little low though depending on how you tackle the cooling system(larger radiator), fuel system(braided lines, an fittings, pump,fpr,etc) and whether you do the wiring mods yourself or send the harness out(~400). i would ask the guys over at torquecentral.com for help, it would be nice if someone did a nice writeup with pics on the conversion, hmm maybe i will. -garrett
Upon further reading, at least I know I need an F-body LS1 and T56 combo, and I guess I'll jsut go from there. I'd definitely send the harness out to get done, just because I hate wiring so much.
From what I've heard here, it's quite a PITA though, and requires a bit more than jsut simple stuff. Hoepfully we're not getting in over our heads, and someone can chime in and help us out.
BTW- torquecentral doesn't seem to be working for me- maybe it's my office firewall or something??????
01-17-04, 11:07 PM
#4
I'm a poor guy and my rotary just died, so I'm doing a TPI swap into a 2nd gen. I've got a bit more experience then you folks do it seems (I've torn the top end off my L67 engine and rebuilt it before, and I put the entire suspension on the RX7). I can tell you, that with good tools, and patience you'll be able to pull it off.. especially with the wiring done for you (I'm doing my own).
As far as TorqueCentral goes... it's been SLOOOOW today, I'm not sure why.
Good luck- And... say it with me... PICTURES!
As far as TorqueCentral goes... it's been SLOOOOW today, I'm not sure why.
Good luck- And... say it with me... PICTURES!
01-17-04, 11:10 PM
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Guys, I just finished my ls1 conversion, and I'm more than happy to answer questions when I can. You ccan check out a lot of my posts over at torquecentral that will answer a lot of the basic questions you might have. I post over ther under the handle Drewman.
Anyhow, I used Hinson's kit. I started a thread that itemized my expenses over at torquecentral, and your estimates are not too far off (http://www.torquecentral.com/showthread.php?t=18372). I ended up spending a little more than $15K on my conversion (more now that I've purchased a new intake manifold and a new camshaft, and not including the price of the car, which I already had), but I went all out and redid my brakes, suspension and wheels while I was at it.
Assuming that I'd have learned from other people's mistakes (I didn't really) I'd have spent around $8K on the swap (not including the price of the car itself). Most people upgrade the suspension while they do their swap. No sense in having a cutting edge modern powerplant and a ten year old suspension. of course, if you're on a budget then you do what you can when you can.
Anyhow, it is NOT as simple as some people make it out to be, and it will require a new skillset. You probably are in over your head, but that is part of the fun. you will learn a ton along the way. At the very least you need to know how to weld and have access to a welder, or you will be paying someone to do it for you. I ended up fabricating a good deal of stuff to make everything work, most notably the cooling system setup and the entire exhaust system.
While everyone cringes at the thought of the wiring, I actually found it quite easy, as the ls1 harness is mostly plug and play, and there are only a handfull of FD wires that need to be tapped.
As for documentation and pictures, between what I and other have posted over at torquecentral, and irondonuts website (http://www.irondount.com ) there is pretty adequate documentation for everything but the wiring and the exhaust. Assuming Olympus ever repairs my broken digital camera I will be taking pictures of my exhasut setup to illustrate my solution. IMHO pictures of the wiring modification would be pretty silly because it's literally cut and solder these two wires together. if you have the wiring diagram on hand (you can get it online at http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/3rdgen/manu...al/Z-large.zip ) it's pretty simple. The wiring diagram has everything sorted by wire color, so they are usually easy to find.
Anyhow, if I can be of help let me know.
And 2dr vette, not that it matters any, but I'm originally from Houston (I went to Strake Jesuit College Prep), and went to school in college station (tamu class of '97). We'll be moving back to Texas later this year. It's good to see interest in these swaps back home.
Anyhow, I used Hinson's kit. I started a thread that itemized my expenses over at torquecentral, and your estimates are not too far off (http://www.torquecentral.com/showthread.php?t=18372). I ended up spending a little more than $15K on my conversion (more now that I've purchased a new intake manifold and a new camshaft, and not including the price of the car, which I already had), but I went all out and redid my brakes, suspension and wheels while I was at it.
Assuming that I'd have learned from other people's mistakes (I didn't really) I'd have spent around $8K on the swap (not including the price of the car itself). Most people upgrade the suspension while they do their swap. No sense in having a cutting edge modern powerplant and a ten year old suspension. of course, if you're on a budget then you do what you can when you can.
Anyhow, it is NOT as simple as some people make it out to be, and it will require a new skillset. You probably are in over your head, but that is part of the fun. you will learn a ton along the way. At the very least you need to know how to weld and have access to a welder, or you will be paying someone to do it for you. I ended up fabricating a good deal of stuff to make everything work, most notably the cooling system setup and the entire exhaust system.
While everyone cringes at the thought of the wiring, I actually found it quite easy, as the ls1 harness is mostly plug and play, and there are only a handfull of FD wires that need to be tapped.
As for documentation and pictures, between what I and other have posted over at torquecentral, and irondonuts website (http://www.irondount.com ) there is pretty adequate documentation for everything but the wiring and the exhaust. Assuming Olympus ever repairs my broken digital camera I will be taking pictures of my exhasut setup to illustrate my solution. IMHO pictures of the wiring modification would be pretty silly because it's literally cut and solder these two wires together. if you have the wiring diagram on hand (you can get it online at http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/3rdgen/manu...al/Z-large.zip ) it's pretty simple. The wiring diagram has everything sorted by wire color, so they are usually easy to find.
Anyhow, if I can be of help let me know.
And 2dr vette, not that it matters any, but I'm originally from Houston (I went to Strake Jesuit College Prep), and went to school in college station (tamu class of '97). We'll be moving back to Texas later this year. It's good to see interest in these swaps back home.
01-17-04, 11:12 PM
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Originally posted by digitalsolo
I'm a poor guy and my rotary just died, so I'm doing a TPI swap into a 2nd gen. I've got a bit more experience then you folks do it seems (I've torn the top end off my L67 engine and rebuilt it before, and I put the entire suspension on the RX7). I can tell you, that with good tools, and patience you'll be able to pull it off.. especially with the wiring done for you (I'm doing my own).
As far as TorqueCentral goes... it's been SLOOOOW today, I'm not sure why.
Good luck- And... say it with me... PICTURES!
I'm a poor guy and my rotary just died, so I'm doing a TPI swap into a 2nd gen. I've got a bit more experience then you folks do it seems (I've torn the top end off my L67 engine and rebuilt it before, and I put the entire suspension on the RX7). I can tell you, that with good tools, and patience you'll be able to pull it off.. especially with the wiring done for you (I'm doing my own).
As far as TorqueCentral goes... it's been SLOOOOW today, I'm not sure why.
Good luck- And... say it with me... PICTURES!
01-17-04, 11:15 PM
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01-20-04, 05:52 PM
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I'm looking at the LS-1 swap as well as it seems almost stupid to rebuild the rotary... they act like 5grand for a rebuild isn't ****... sure you'll spend about 10grand to do the swap but you'll never have to worry about that pop again and you'll have a bunch more reliable power on tap.
01-21-04, 09:03 PM
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You will definately need more than a simple tool kit to complete the fabrication of the FD LS1. You will probably need an extended amount of tools to extract the 13b from the bay to begin with. You will save money by having Hinson do the car.
01-21-04, 11:41 PM
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I was able to pull the 13B-REW and tranny all at once with just standard wrenches, sockets, and other normal hand tools. Had to use a breaker bar and WD40, but that's about it
http://projectshenron.netfirms.com
http://projectshenron.netfirms.com
you will need welding skills to fab up the exhaust, but looks like hinson will be offering bolt on packages for that as well..
01-26-04, 07:13 PM
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i just pulled mine last week im stripping al the stuff off the engine and selling it . i hope to be done by the end of feb. we should keep each other posted on our rides since we seem to all be doing it at the same time. BTW im lowjack on the TC page
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