wingsfan

No, it's not just Edit or HPtuners. Those aren't the only options. Maybe you missed it, but there's also Predator, EFI Live, DFI, FAST, BS3, Megasquirt, Motec, Haltech, etc.

There are plenty of options for engine management. Most have at least one drawback, and many of them are not palatable because of the expense.

TT_Rex_7

Yea but this is also a street application remember?

But now you just said earlier that you don't need many gears with more torque?! So now which is it?!

Yea he can produce results, but they might not be the best for his application. You also have to take into consideration that something may break during the event. It's very rare that someone runs their best times during the first event. Besides, i'd think he'd be putting in more than 40 hours. Hell, he isn't even finished with the car yet. So lets think here...24 hours x 7 = 168 hours a week. 168 hours - 40 = 128 hours left a week. Then you have to factor in sleep. So now where do you get off saying he has 160 hours a week?!

That all depends on what you consider "minor lag." I'm sure it'll be able to spool them pretty well, but there's still going to be quite a bit of lag.

For the stree? Yes.

Here again, it all depends on what you consider "streetable." I don't really give a **** what you do, your not going to get great gas mileage. Besides, there's alot more to better/worse gas mileage than fuel maps anc ompression. Maybe you should go read a book or something. With the kind of power this car will make, even at a low boost setting, it'll suck the crap out of gas.

Now you do know he's running stock springs with Koni shocks right? I wouldn't consider that the best suspension option. Besides, there are many people with nice suspension setups that still have traction issues with these cars. Either way, it WOULD be something to worry about.

-Alex

pianoprodigy

If Hinson actually chose to drive it around as a street car and didn't drive it hard (thus staying out of boost and in a considerably less rich map), I bet it would get upwards of 15 MPG if not much more depending on tuning.

TT_Rex_7

He's not running a larger displacement then factory, so that statement is void. Either way, would you really wan't to run a motor like this with something less than 93 octane? Larger displacement or not, I don't think it will help the issue that he'll need to run atleast 93 octane.

Edit: He IS running a larger displacement. See post below.

Well hopefully that's more often than what you've represented on this board!

Right back at ya!

-Alex

pianoprodigy

.

http://www.torquecentral.com/showpos...3&postcount=21

TT_Rex_7

Well then I take that back, I thought it was stated in this thread that he was running stock displacement.

Either way, if he's running a larger displacement, and running 93 octane, I still say he's not going to be able to run less than 93.

-Alex

TT_Rex_7

Yes, I know. I'm currently running 2 GT3071R's on my rotary. I know Rx-Heaven, I made his exhaust manifold flange for him. It will get ok gas mileage while not under boost, but still isn't going to be great or anything. I'm sure it'll still suck gas.

Yes I know, but everyone is trying to say it's a street car too.

-Alex

TT_Rex_7

Phew, i'm sick of quoting everyone! lol I think we all need to just sit back, and wait for the results. Everyone is making large accusations about this whole project, when none of us REALLY know how it's going to turn out. If all goes well, more power to him. If it doesn't, there's always next time.

About this car being "streetable," there's no point in really getting into it. "Streetable" is an opinion, not a fact.

Can't we all just get along!

-Alex

Kevin T. Wyum

This is pretty funny. People are building this up to be best car ever built by anyone.

To make 1200hp on boost the motor with 0 boost is going to have to produce in the range of 500hp. Does this thing have staged injectors or something that don't come online until under boost? If not that's a pretty big range of fuel delivery. My point is that some of you are probably dreaming about getting great mileage, and we haven't even mentioned the powerglide with respect to mileage : ).

A two speed powerglide is really not very streetable either. I used to street race against people using them all the time. They pissed everyone else off because they have to putt along at 50 mph on the freeway or they'd overheat from the high revs. So when we'd go from race spot to race spot we all had to wait for the clowns with a powerglide or similar tranny or diff ratio.

If the car is really a trailer queen that's not a big deal, let's just take off the rose colored glasses and quit pretending it's everything.

jimlab

Well, at least it's a change from the typical 20B leg humping that goes on around here...

SpeedyWankel

This is the single greatest car EVAR! ;-)

Are you saying to get 1200 hp FI, your engine must be able to crank out 500 hp NA? I think that's what you are saying. Well, as a ratio, that's pretty obviously not true. 12:5 is the equivalent of saying "A 13brew that makes 600 hp with a t78 must be able to make 250 by itself." I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the 13b with it's 8.5:1 compression and street porting will NOT make 250hp NA. Plenty of Civics make better than 12:5 boosted-hp/NA-hp ratios.

If you meant "700 more hp" rather than the ratio argument, look into the Supra camp. I think they are trailer queens too, but they are hitting 1200hp with 3 liter motors that definitely won't do 500 NA.

Oh, and about the injector thing...that is a good point. In the pictures, I don't see any additional injectors or fuel inlets, but there does appear to be a boost dependant fuel pressure regulator. I could be wrong about that...I'm just going off what I think I am seeing in the pictures.

Whenever I get on here, I always feel like I have to be on the V8 team, and everyone else here is on the rotary team. I start wondering if I even have the right to post on this board...I don't have a rotary. Oh yeah, this is RX-7 club. That's right. That's why these V8 guys including myself are here in the first place. We are all owners of RX-7's. Fast rotary 7s are badass. Fast V8 or V6 7s are badass too. Hinson's car is not the car to end all cars, but it is pretty damn cool.

EDIT: I must add that it is late, and I am lazy. Please don't send the grammar/spelling ***** to get me.

wingsfan

Why would you need additional injectors or inlets? The factory block came with 26# or 28.5# injectors. His standalone will allow the use of either high Z or low Z injectors, so he can run up to 160# injectors. You're not going to be able to see the difference that clearly with the pictures they've taken. I can tell you by looking at them that they aren't the stockers, and if I had to guess I'd et they're running 96# injectors.

Now, a little math. Assume a BSFC of 0.6 for a turbocharged application. 1200 target horsepower.

So 1200*0.6 means we need 720 # fuel per hour

8 injectors mean that at 100% duty cycle we need minimum of 90 pound injectors.

Since you'd want to run about 85% DC to be safe, that means you would want to run 105 injectors (90/0.85).

Now, the LSx fuel systems run at a base pressure of 58psi (4 bar), meaning that a 96# injector (rated at 3bar), will provide 110.9# of fuel (at 4 bar). Plenty of injector to get you to 1200. Infact, 96# injectors would theoretically support up to ~1480 hp at 100% DC. If he's worried he could always throw in some 160# injectors.

Anyhow, I doubt injectors will be the limiting factor there. He's more likely to run out of pump than injector, though I'm pretty sure he has that covered with an external pump (s).

Oh, and all of our converted cars (LS1s anyways) are running adjustable rate fuel pressure regulators. We need to run a base pressure of 58psi, and the stock LS1 fuel rail setup is a returnless system, so we have to do something to regulate the pressure. The F-bodies come with their FPR in the fuel tank, so that won't do us any good.

pianoprodigy

I'd say so. I took this pic at Deal's Gap.

SpeedyWankel

No no no....my point wasn't that you couldn't get eight injectors big enough to handle that power. Lord, of course you can. What happens, though, when you need those same eight 110 lb/hr injectors to run at super low duty cycle, as in when you are just driving around like a grandma? Can 110 lb/hr injectors reach a duty low enough that you won't be running retarded rich?

My bad, I should have been clearer.

I know all about having the aeromotive FPR and all. The aeromotive has an small port on it that is left open to the atmosphere if you want constant pressure. If you hook it up to a pressure source, such as the intake manifold on the boosted car, I'm pretty sure it will give a 1:1 pressure increase with boost. I could be way wrong.

wingsfan

I don't know for sure, but I'd guess it's not a huge problem. I'm sure there are tricks you can pull, especially with the engine management setup they're using. For instance, since he's running two pumps, he might only want one on under boost (which the ECU can trigger, no problem)


No, you're right. Leaving the port without a vaccum/boost reference leaves a constant (if your pump is up to it) pressure. And they're 1:1 (at least the unit I'm using is).

Kevin T. Wyum

That's not the point to a boost variable FPR. The reason is to keep the same pressure differential between the fuel in the rail and the pressure inside the manifold. If you didn't do this the ratio of pressure between the manifold and injector would be dropping as boost went up, meaning less fuel comes out of the injector for every millisecond that it's open.

As SpeedWankel mentioned already my point had nothing to do with 8 injectors being able to deliver 1200hp of fuel, it was that those same injectors probably couldn't be used at a normal street delivery volume for the 25mpg people were yapping about. That's why I said you'd need a staged setup.

Just having a second pump wouldn't resolve the problem either. The second pump would only help to maintain the appropriate pressure as the volume demands go way up with HP when you otherwise might be losing pressure as you run out of pump. Injectors are designed to run within a certain pressure range, deviate a great deal from it and you end up with messed up spray patterns or it not opening properly.

jimlab

"Hinson was not able to compete due to the charging problems on the way to the track draining the battery, but the track allowed those who were put out to run after the races were over. Brian was the first up. He ran a 9.54, but as soon as he went through the traps, the car lost oil pressure, and the rear wheels locked up sending him into the wall."

Kevin T. Wyum

I assume he wasn't injured. It's a shame to see someone damage a car but I can't believe how accurate I was. It'll be interesting to hear the details.

DaVinci1

Jim,
you should really consider switching to a rotary again just for safety issues. When you guys use stock car engines they always make the cars go left.. i bet all you smart guys didn't know that!

jimlab

Is the 1,000+ RWHP car finished yet?

jimlab

Absolutely. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Well, almost anyone...

1point3liter

That sucks. I hate to see anyone **** up their car.

Hopefully he's alright. it doesn't look like too bad of a mishap from the pics.

airborne

hey kevin check your email

RX-Heven

iTrader: (1)

Any word on how/why he lost oil pressure?

LUPE

getting really close... yours?