Pump gas 502 rwhp
06-05-12, 09:39 PM
#1
Freedoms worth a buck o'5
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,544
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Pump gas 502 rwhp
T51 R kai on half bridge REW, power FC, HKS twin Fire, stock coils and Mazda 2 piece seals on straight 91 pump gas.. 18 Psi, wastegate spring not holding more to come , retuning for 23 psi shortly....
06-06-12, 02:50 AM
#4
Freedoms worth a buck o'5
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,544
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
No, no AI or water. 2 walbro 255's and 850/1600 combo.
I have been over 20 before on pump gas, I just never dyno'd it when it was at 23 psi with the old T51 setup, years ago on this forum the magic number was 12 psi, then after awhile it was 15 psi when the world would explode.
The car is pretty simple, nothing magic or exotic about it. I was doing roadcourse/lapping days with it, so I tried to keep it as basic as possible.
A lot of people are scared of pump gas, but I honestly don't think its the octane limits of the fuel causing problems in many instances, its other factors causing detonation/ pre ignition.
I have been over 20 before on pump gas, I just never dyno'd it when it was at 23 psi with the old T51 setup, years ago on this forum the magic number was 12 psi, then after awhile it was 15 psi when the world would explode.
The car is pretty simple, nothing magic or exotic about it. I was doing roadcourse/lapping days with it, so I tried to keep it as basic as possible.
A lot of people are scared of pump gas, but I honestly don't think its the octane limits of the fuel causing problems in many instances, its other factors causing detonation/ pre ignition.
Trending Topics
06-20-12, 06:24 PM
#9
23 on 91 without AI? won't happen so won't be checking back.
nothing magical or world exploding about that figure. if you make a few passes to actually get a result before something lets go then consider that a gimme.
people claiming below 18psi were just talking out their ***. even at 18psi it is borderline, beyond that you are just waiting for that one pass for what most tuners have been saying about pump gas to become true for you, at the cost of a motor. why do we say that? because most motors have let go just beyond 18psi on pump gas. if you want to feel like your proving us wrong sobeit, but also come back and let us know how long it lasts at that level.
thing that sucks is you're going above and beyond for maybe 50 horsepower to prove yourself right, unless it's a 1/4 mile car that 50 horses isn't critical and can be made up in other ways.
yes there is other factors to bring it up just a nudge before detonation sets in but why run it to the ragged edge? if you can keep IAT and EGT low then you can get by for a little bit more, the REW block also helps keep things together just a tiny bit higher in boost also versus the weak 2nd gen rear iron but even the REW block isn't indestructable.
nothing magical or world exploding about that figure. if you make a few passes to actually get a result before something lets go then consider that a gimme.
people claiming below 18psi were just talking out their ***. even at 18psi it is borderline, beyond that you are just waiting for that one pass for what most tuners have been saying about pump gas to become true for you, at the cost of a motor. why do we say that? because most motors have let go just beyond 18psi on pump gas. if you want to feel like your proving us wrong sobeit, but also come back and let us know how long it lasts at that level.
thing that sucks is you're going above and beyond for maybe 50 horsepower to prove yourself right, unless it's a 1/4 mile car that 50 horses isn't critical and can be made up in other ways.
yes there is other factors to bring it up just a nudge before detonation sets in but why run it to the ragged edge? if you can keep IAT and EGT low then you can get by for a little bit more, the REW block also helps keep things together just a tiny bit higher in boost also versus the weak 2nd gen rear iron but even the REW block isn't indestructable.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 06-20-12 at 06:40 PM.
06-20-12, 10:16 PM
#10
Freedoms worth a buck o'5
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,544
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
23 on 91 without AI? won't happen so won't be checking back.
nothing magical or world exploding about that figure. if you make a few passes to actually get a result before something lets go then consider that a gimme.
people claiming below 18psi were just talking out their ***. even at 18psi it is borderline, beyond that you are just waiting for that one pass for what most tuners have been saying about pump gas to become true for you, at the cost of a motor. why do we say that? because most motors have let go just beyond 18psi on pump gas. if you want to feel like your proving us wrong sobeit, but also come back and let us know how long it lasts at that level.
thing that sucks is you're going above and beyond for maybe 50 horsepower to prove yourself right, unless it's a 1/4 mile car that 50 horses isn't critical and can be made up in other ways.
yes there is other factors to bring it up just a nudge before detonation sets in but why run it to the ragged edge? if you can keep IAT and EGT low then you can get by for a little bit more, the REW block also helps keep things together just a tiny bit higher in boost also versus the weak 2nd gen rear iron but even the REW block isn't indestructable.
nothing magical or world exploding about that figure. if you make a few passes to actually get a result before something lets go then consider that a gimme.
people claiming below 18psi were just talking out their ***. even at 18psi it is borderline, beyond that you are just waiting for that one pass for what most tuners have been saying about pump gas to become true for you, at the cost of a motor. why do we say that? because most motors have let go just beyond 18psi on pump gas. if you want to feel like your proving us wrong sobeit, but also come back and let us know how long it lasts at that level.
thing that sucks is you're going above and beyond for maybe 50 horsepower to prove yourself right, unless it's a 1/4 mile car that 50 horses isn't critical and can be made up in other ways.
yes there is other factors to bring it up just a nudge before detonation sets in but why run it to the ragged edge? if you can keep IAT and EGT low then you can get by for a little bit more, the REW block also helps keep things together just a tiny bit higher in boost also versus the weak 2nd gen rear iron but even the REW block isn't indestructable.
As I have said in other threads, its not the boost level that determines limits, it's power levels or prior to combustion, mass flow rates. For instance, this car before I cleaned up the tuning for the new turbo was making 470 rwhp at 19 psi and ran 4 or 5 full day track events, now its making 502 at 18 psi, which one is closer to the edge?
The car runs a lot hotter on the dyno according to the logged data, than it does on the road or track, if it was going to let go, it would have been on the dyno loaded continuously against the dyno brake. Its on tank of fuel #4 now since it made that number, running fine except for the broken diff mount.
I have had motors blow at way lower boost levels and power, and its always been traceable to something else, never actually the fuel.. Cover all the bases and pump fuel has a lot more room in that most think.
I just topped the car up with the Petro Canada/Sunoco 94 premium pump gas, going to strap it down this weekend and see what it can turn on that.
06-20-12, 10:24 PM
#12
Freedoms worth a buck o'5
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,544
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Its a somewhat rare HKS Vband FC3S manifold, I almost was forced to use the FD version, but this one popped up on the auctions for 200.00..
HKS knows how to put a manifold together, makes good power and will hold any level of boost.
HKS knows how to put a manifold together, makes good power and will hold any level of boost.
06-23-12, 09:53 AM
#13
Full Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dark Side Of The Moon
Posts: 196
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
23 on 91 without AI? won't happen so won't be checking back.
nothing magical or world exploding about that figure. if you make a few passes to actually get a result before something lets go then consider that a gimme.
people claiming below 18psi were just talking out their ***. even at 18psi it is borderline, beyond that you are just waiting for that one pass for what most tuners have been saying about pump gas to become true for you, at the cost of a motor. why do we say that? because most motors have let go just beyond 18psi on pump gas. if you want to feel like your proving us wrong sobeit, but also come back and let us know how long it lasts at that level.
thing that sucks is you're going above and beyond for maybe 50 horsepower to prove yourself right, unless it's a 1/4 mile car that 50 horses isn't critical and can be made up in other ways.
yes there is other factors to bring it up just a nudge before detonation sets in but why run it to the ragged edge? if you can keep IAT and EGT low then you can get by for a little bit more, the REW block also helps keep things together just a tiny bit higher in boost also versus the weak 2nd gen rear iron but even the REW block isn't indestructable.
nothing magical or world exploding about that figure. if you make a few passes to actually get a result before something lets go then consider that a gimme.
people claiming below 18psi were just talking out their ***. even at 18psi it is borderline, beyond that you are just waiting for that one pass for what most tuners have been saying about pump gas to become true for you, at the cost of a motor. why do we say that? because most motors have let go just beyond 18psi on pump gas. if you want to feel like your proving us wrong sobeit, but also come back and let us know how long it lasts at that level.
thing that sucks is you're going above and beyond for maybe 50 horsepower to prove yourself right, unless it's a 1/4 mile car that 50 horses isn't critical and can be made up in other ways.
yes there is other factors to bring it up just a nudge before detonation sets in but why run it to the ragged edge? if you can keep IAT and EGT low then you can get by for a little bit more, the REW block also helps keep things together just a tiny bit higher in boost also versus the weak 2nd gen rear iron but even the REW block isn't indestructable.
07-29-12, 04:00 PM
#15
there's always a peanut in the peanut gallery, oh well.
yes you can get by with additional boost if you can keep intake temps low enough or have access to higher octane pump gas(states don't all follow the same guidelines for octane rating and some do sell higher octane fuels than we have on the west coast).
but for most practical purposes how can you get the intake temps down and keep them down? you have to sacrifice something, such as front mount setups that keep IATs low but coolant temps rise and begin cooking the engine. you could invest thousands into a v-mount with dual side mount oil coolers which is the best setup you can get but how many FC owners will opt that route? not too many.
with timing, you can retard it all you want but the octane of the fuel will still auto ignite at a set point. you can't dump fuel to suffice the need for knock suppression because there is only a rather small window where the engine will be happy. so i'm still curious what this magical practice is that isn't borderline smoking the engine for a few extra horsepower.
over here we only have access to 91AKI octane pump gas, some southern and eastern states have 93AKI pump gas. that measly 2 octane points buys you about 4 additional psi of knock suppression so you may get by on 22-23psi but it is VERY unsafe.
yes you can get by with additional boost if you can keep intake temps low enough or have access to higher octane pump gas(states don't all follow the same guidelines for octane rating and some do sell higher octane fuels than we have on the west coast).
but for most practical purposes how can you get the intake temps down and keep them down? you have to sacrifice something, such as front mount setups that keep IATs low but coolant temps rise and begin cooking the engine. you could invest thousands into a v-mount with dual side mount oil coolers which is the best setup you can get but how many FC owners will opt that route? not too many.
with timing, you can retard it all you want but the octane of the fuel will still auto ignite at a set point. you can't dump fuel to suffice the need for knock suppression because there is only a rather small window where the engine will be happy. so i'm still curious what this magical practice is that isn't borderline smoking the engine for a few extra horsepower.
over here we only have access to 91AKI octane pump gas, some southern and eastern states have 93AKI pump gas. that measly 2 octane points buys you about 4 additional psi of knock suppression so you may get by on 22-23psi but it is VERY unsafe.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 07-29-12 at 04:03 PM.
02-25-13, 09:34 AM
#18
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: GA
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
23 on 91 without AI? won't happen so won't be checking back.
nothing magical or world exploding about that figure. if you make a few passes to actually get a result before something lets go then consider that a gimme.
people claiming below 18psi were just talking out their ***. even at 18psi it is borderline, beyond that you are just waiting for that one pass for what most tuners have been saying about pump gas to become true for you, at the cost of a motor. why do we say that? because most motors have let go just beyond 18psi on pump gas. if you want to feel like your proving us wrong sobeit, but also come back and let us know how long it lasts at that level.
thing that sucks is you're going above and beyond for maybe 50 horsepower to prove yourself right, unless it's a 1/4 mile car that 50 horses isn't critical and can be made up in other ways.
yes there is other factors to bring it up just a nudge before detonation sets in but why run it to the ragged edge? if you can keep IAT and EGT low then you can get by for a little bit more, the REW block also helps keep things together just a tiny bit higher in boost also versus the weak 2nd gen rear iron but even the REW block isn't indestructable.
nothing magical or world exploding about that figure. if you make a few passes to actually get a result before something lets go then consider that a gimme.
people claiming below 18psi were just talking out their ***. even at 18psi it is borderline, beyond that you are just waiting for that one pass for what most tuners have been saying about pump gas to become true for you, at the cost of a motor. why do we say that? because most motors have let go just beyond 18psi on pump gas. if you want to feel like your proving us wrong sobeit, but also come back and let us know how long it lasts at that level.
thing that sucks is you're going above and beyond for maybe 50 horsepower to prove yourself right, unless it's a 1/4 mile car that 50 horses isn't critical and can be made up in other ways.
yes there is other factors to bring it up just a nudge before detonation sets in but why run it to the ragged edge? if you can keep IAT and EGT low then you can get by for a little bit more, the REW block also helps keep things together just a tiny bit higher in boost also versus the weak 2nd gen rear iron but even the REW block isn't indestructable.
I ran mine at 18 on pump gas, premix, and it was fine.
Good job bro, I dont question those results at all. If it was me I would do a 50/50 mix over 20psi...but thats just me. Its not the end of the world if it does pop...thats why they made more than one of them...
02-28-13, 10:43 PM
#20
Full Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Miami
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
23 on 91 without AI? won't happen so won't be checking back.
nothing magical or world exploding about that figure. if you make a few passes to actually get a result before something lets go then consider that a gimme.
people claiming below 18psi were just talking out their ***. even at 18psi it is borderline, beyond that you are just waiting for that one pass for what most tuners have been saying about pump gas to become true for you, at the cost of a motor. why do we say that? because most motors have let go just beyond 18psi on pump gas. if you want to feel like your proving us wrong sobeit, but also come back and let us know how long it lasts at that level.
thing that sucks is you're going above and beyond for maybe 50 horsepower to prove yourself right, unless it's a 1/4 mile car that 50 horses isn't critical and can be made up in other ways.
yes there is other factors to bring it up just a nudge before detonation sets in but why run it to the ragged edge? if you can keep IAT and EGT low then you can get by for a little bit more, the REW block also helps keep things together just a tiny bit higher in boost also versus the weak 2nd gen rear iron but even the REW block isn't indestructable.
nothing magical or world exploding about that figure. if you make a few passes to actually get a result before something lets go then consider that a gimme.
people claiming below 18psi were just talking out their ***. even at 18psi it is borderline, beyond that you are just waiting for that one pass for what most tuners have been saying about pump gas to become true for you, at the cost of a motor. why do we say that? because most motors have let go just beyond 18psi on pump gas. if you want to feel like your proving us wrong sobeit, but also come back and let us know how long it lasts at that level.
thing that sucks is you're going above and beyond for maybe 50 horsepower to prove yourself right, unless it's a 1/4 mile car that 50 horses isn't critical and can be made up in other ways.
yes there is other factors to bring it up just a nudge before detonation sets in but why run it to the ragged edge? if you can keep IAT and EGT low then you can get by for a little bit more, the REW block also helps keep things together just a tiny bit higher in boost also versus the weak 2nd gen rear iron but even the REW block isn't indestructable.
03-02-13, 09:04 AM
#21
F**K THE SYSTEM!!
I read thread once.. Where they asked what tuning tool are used for tuning timing on rotaries.
People told the guy there wasnt any. And he was like how do I know if im running to much timing then?
Pluto answered something in the lines of. You keep adding timing till she blows. Then rebuild the engine and take away some timing. WALa!
^^ THIS.
Steve Kan is one of the most respected rotary tuners. You think he took someones word on how much timing he should be running?
Be a pioneer! move forward. Dont get stuck in the box.
People told the guy there wasnt any. And he was like how do I know if im running to much timing then?
Pluto answered something in the lines of. You keep adding timing till she blows. Then rebuild the engine and take away some timing. WALa!
^^ THIS.
Steve Kan is one of the most respected rotary tuners. You think he took someones word on how much timing he should be running?
Be a pioneer! move forward. Dont get stuck in the box.
