RedR1

iTrader: (5)

Hey all, I had a quick question in regards to these 3 coilovers. All of these coilovers have roughly the same spring rates on them (fronts are from 500-600 lbs/in, and rears are 400-500 lbs/in set for the Tanabe, who are a really stiff). My main question is in regards to the dampening effect. I know the Teins have 16 way adjustability, Zeal's have 6 way, and the Tanabe are 4. Do they have the same level of dampening, just the teins are more precise? Does one have more bound and rebound as opposed to the other? My main question, is which coilover gives the most feedback when driving? I dont want a suspension that feels like i have broken shocks. I have heard the Zeal's are one of the best, as it has the biggest piston compared to the other 2, yet I heard the Tein's were lighter (by 4 lbs total, word of mouth, dont wuote me). Is weight savings more of an issue, even though its only by a few pounds? Also, i haven't heard anything about the Tanabe's from FD owners, if anyone has any information and facts about those, please post, as I am a week away from picking up a set of coilovers. The prices are:

Zeal B6: 1900.00
Tein Flex: $1200.00
Tanabe: $1800.00

Those are the prices i was quoted out the door.

I want to get the most bang for my buck, yet the Zeals are in at about 2grand, so thats definately a bang. . . .My car will mainly be on the street, with maybe 2-3 autocross events, and possibly a roadrace event per year. I want something that will give me very nimble handling on the outskirts of town when i go for "spirited" drives, yet the adjustability to switch to a competitive setup for the track. I don't mind a little harsh ride, so please, any of you that have input or suggestions, please post or send me alink to any thread of website that has this information (checked, the suspension archive only has the brakes thread in it).

Thanks,
Chris

PS, i've done a lot of research on all 3, so if anyone needs any "real" data (e.i. weights of each model coilover in the line-up, spring rates, etc), please pm me, as i have been calling Kent from Zeal, and working with Brian, who is an authorized distributor for Tein, USA. I just can't seem to find anyone to contact for Tanabe information.

OC_

take a look a buddy club, too.

If there’s one thing I would look into is if any have progressive rate springs vs. linear rate springs. As you probably know, progressive springs are more for street driving and are usually geared more toward comfort then pure handling. I would only go with linear rate springs.

BC-FD3S

iTrader: (2)

I have Zeal B6. I like it a lot. I have Tein on my Civic and I think 16 way adjustments are too much since I do not feel significiant different on every increment of adjustment.

Zeal B6 6 way adjustments are very significant. Plus you can always preload your spring to increase the initial spring stiffness.

The ride is more comfort than my stock R1 spring/shocks. May the stockers are too old to compare the newly installed B6.

BC

RedR1

iTrader: (5)

OC: which model of buddy club should i look at? I'll go to my contact this weekend to find someone for some specific info on these, then I will post it here, just to help everyone else out. I know each company has a few different models. I'm mainly looking for street, and a few track days. thanks!!

BC-FD3S: On the Zeal B6, i know that hieght is adjustable, but to set the spring preload. . . . how is it done on the B6 if you dont mind me asking?

thanks for the help guys!

dis1

RedR1,

I have the B6 and a very detailed write-up on my site with data comparing different brands including the two you listed.

For you I might suggest going with the B2. It isn't height adjustable (unless you change the spring perch which is the way many other kits work anyway like the Tanabe) but does have the 6 way dampening adjustment. It is much cheaper.

As for the number of adjustments I think fewer are better. As somebody said if you have too many there is no difference between levels so you end up clicking it like 5 times to tell a difference.

As for weight it should not be a concern. If you really care get the V6, which is the B6 with an aluminum casing.

RedR1

iTrader: (5)

Dis1, thanks for the info! Would you mind linking me, or pm'ing me your review on the B6's? Also, the S6 were the all aluminum version of the B6. I talked to Kent Chen, who is the vp for endless-usa, and he did tell me that the S6 were about 12lbs lighter total as opposed to the B6, and that's the only real difference, as stat-wise, everythign else is the same. He also told me that the B2 series were now out of production for the FD3S, only the B6, S6, and super function line would still be available for us.

Main reason why I dont want to get the S6, is because of the full aluminum construction. The roads here in Jacksonville suck, and aluminum has the tendancy tp bend, as opposed to the heavier chromoly steel that the B6's are made out of.

Again, thanks a lot for your info guys! And Dis1, please send me your review, if you don't mind!

dis1

Oh, was it the S6, my bad. As for my review just click on the large banner in my sig and go to the coilover section. Ya can't miss it.

Ni5mo180SX

If you're seriously considering paying 1900 for the Zeals, look at JRZ's single adjustables which shouldnt be that far off the Zeals in cost.

Quality is tremendous on the JRZ's.

Also, have you spoken to the rep about the S6 alum construction? Id imagine because of the reduced stress on the double wishbones damper, the aluminum shouldn't be nearly as prone to damage as on the FC's for instance.

RedR1

iTrader: (5)

Dis1, I checked out your site. All i can say is AWESOME! It's very detailed, and. . . well. . . . .lol, GREAT!! I think you have definately answered my questions! Again, thanks bro! Just what I was looking for.

I think I am sold, but I will take a look at the JRZ's, thanks Ni5mo180sx.

dis1

Glad you liked it. Just wait until I get it updated. Kent sent me some great setup info from the racers/designers in Japan.

RedR1

iTrader: (5)

Dis1, do you know when you will be updating it with that information? If it's going to be a few weeks down the road, would you mind sending me some of that info Also with that info, do you mean like body stiffeners, braces, etc, in conjunction with the Zeal's?

My email address is REpoweredRX7@aol.com, or send it in pm, or, if the site will be updated pretty soon, i will hang on =P

Right now, im not a serious auto-crosser or road racer, as still building up my car to where it needs to be handling wise, but later on. . . . .

thanks for all your help and info!!

dis1

Well the info I'll be posting is in regards to setting up the coilovers. Things like dampening front to rear, ride height and spring pre-load settings. In addition I have some suggested alignment settings. I'll also be describing my suspension setup and how I have been progressing on fine tuning it. This includes sway bars and other components but not body stiffeners or braces unless you mean strut bars. Things like engine torque braces and diff braces only transmit more vibration to the chassis in my opinion. The performance benefits are minimal.

Anyway just check back to my site every now and then. It won't be updated for at leat another few weeks but honestly you don't even have the coilovers yet and I don't feel like spending my time writing it up right now. Sorry I guess thats one reason why my post count is so low. I'm probably up there in experience like some of the well respected people on the forum but just don't have the time to post much. All my info is on my site. Well maybe not all of it

Oh, BTW tell Kent my site put you over the top in picking Zeal if you talk to him again.

BC-FD3S

iTrader: (2)

Here is a link to see the Zeal B6 photos prior to my installation early this year.

http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bkc.../ph//my_photos

To Preload the spring, you will have to turn the spring seat to compress the spring. Spring rate for my street B6 is about 8kg/mm (If I remember), so the every mm of compression will makes the spring initial force stiffer by 8kg since it the spring is linear. If you compress the spring 15mm, your spring initial force will be 120kg.

I do not believe that the all aluminum S6 is 12lbs lighter than the B6. Maybe it is 12lbs less total for all four pieces.

BC

GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

There is a group buy on the Buddy Club's on the other forum or contact rotaryextreme directly. He extended the final date to the 16th. I was going to buy a set but but I need a buyer for my JIC SF-1's.

dis1

Buddy Club wasn't around when I did my research, at least not to the extent that they were on my radar. I believe they were in a comparo in a Japanese mag I looked at though. Anyway I don't think they are on the same level as Zeal. 10 front to rear is a bit strange but a few others like HKS do the same thing. It's also pretty stiff, only Apexi is stiffer at 11. However the prices Chuck is offering are very impressive.

Perhaps I'll do a little research on them and add them to my site... just to be complete.

RedR1

iTrader: (5)

Dis1, i definately understand, no worries about it When I call Kent up, just tell him Charles and his Silver Bullet 7 website was the last resource that pushed me over the top to get the Zeal's? Or does he know you by another handle? Let me know, and I will definately mention you!

BC-FD3S, i thought i posted 12 lbs lighter for the entire setup as opposed to the B6. My bad, im getting a little too old Big thanks for the info on the preload for the springs! Im getting more and more stoked about picking these coilovers up next week!

Thanks everyone for your info! And if you have anything else to add, please, post away!

Chris-

dis1

Yea, Charles at Silver Bullet Rx-7 should do the trick.

Also feel free to e-mail me about any questions or even comments you have about this stuff. You sound like a good guy and I'd value your experiences with the coilovers. Also if you like I can forward you some of the raw info Kent sent me about setting the coilovers up.

I assume you are getting the street spring rates?

RedR1

iTrader: (5)

Yes, i'd be getting the B6 with street kit. If you wouldnt mind, could you please forward it to me? I also sort of have a coilover review in progress. currently in it i have the Tien Flex, Ra, N1, HKS Hipermax, and JIC FLT-a2. It is all second hand info on the opinions (from fellow FD owners), yet the spring rates and adjustability levels, all tech info, are all facts from the Techs from the respective companies, as well as the "at cost" price for FD3S. Im waiting for personal review information on the Quantum coilovers (same ones RE-Amemiya sells) from a few FD owners overseas, then i'll add it to that review list.

If you want, i can forward you what I have as well, if you need any additional info on it. Its like a 9 page Microsoft word review, with more being added as i ride in different FD's with different set up and coilovers, etc.

rx7raca

Great web site dis1. If you could post the info that would be great, dont keep all the info to yourself

RedR1-I am also looking at getting thet zeals, but I dont know much about suspenion adjusting and such. So if you could post whatever info you get that would be great.

OC_

the buddy club suspensions you might want to look up would be the P1 racing damper and the racing spec damper. The P1 racing damper is there top of the line damper and comes with a choice of spring rates from 10k-22k front and 8k-20k for the rear. It also has full aluminum construction. The other damper, the racing spec damper is cheaper and has steel constructing its spring rates are 10k front and rear.

A thing about the huge rear springrate. you would think this might cause massive oversteer, but you should find out if they want you to run the rear swaybar with those rates. I know with the FC, a lot of racers dont run the rear swaybar, so it would then be ok the run a higher rear rate. Your suspension sees sway bars as more spring rate.

GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

The racing Spec Damper is on sale untill the 16th for $1300 (about $300 off). The P1 Aluminum is about $3500 less discount till the 16th. 3rd gen sectio other forum or contact rotaryextreme. Their exhaust is awsome also. Anyhow, I don't know the reason for the equal spring rates but Apexi does it also. HKS and a few others are very close (8's/7's). Maybe it's for drifting, dunno but I would think you can compensate with adjusting the rear damping alot softer. If someone would buy my JIC's i'd gladly buy the Buddy Clubs.

POM HB

Shet....I want one too, but....money is da thang. Buddy club probably ain't my buddy

RedR1

iTrader: (5)

my disclaimer *this is an amature review. I am in no way certified to give information on suspensions, settings, etc. I am just your average joe, looking to pick up a set of coilovers, as I am slowly setting my car up for autocross usage, as they just opened up an autocross course on a decomissioned navy base. This review is just for refference, and some food for thought. Do not base your purchase soley on this post, as I am simply trying to help everyone out. The spec's however, are as accurate as the company's website and tech's are*

***If anyone has anything that I should add or omit, please let me know. I did a write up for people that I work with, just as food for thought, and vice versa. I just thought maybe this would help someone looking for that extra piece of info for these coilovers. ***


Dis1, I tried to pull this off of my hard drive from work, but i guess when they installed Xp on all of these computers last night, everything became write protected. So, i did the next best thing i could, post it here.

RedR1

iTrader: (5)

I used some of my resources to get the good stuff on all of the top coilovers out on the market. I am still trying to get more info on the Blitz/Sachs racing TR-1, Cusco Zero-1, Kei Office XR, Silk Road, and the Tanabe Sustec RR. This is more or less just a review from joe schmoe trying to find something he can use on the streets and light track. Enjoy.
__________________________________________________ ____

Zeal Function S6-
Color: Silver, Black and Blue Spring

*6-way adjustability
*Separate lower adjustable bracket for height
*Aluminum construction
*Aluminum upper pillow mounts
*Available for overhaul
*Large diameter piston

Includes: 4 dampers, 4 SWIFT* springs, 4 seat locks, 4 upper mounts, 4 dust boots, 4 hook wrenches

Ride height is fully adjustable-

FD3S information
Street version:
Front rate: 504 lbs/in
Rear rate: 448 lbs/in

Or

Track version:
Front rate: 640 lbs/in
Rear rate: 559 lbs/in

MSRP: $2395.00


S13 information
Track version:
Front rate: 448 lbs/in
Rear rate: 392 lbs/in

MSRP: $2500.00



My Opinion: These coilovers appear to be the best of the best. Many people that actually road race and time attack say that these are possibly the best that they have used. Just looking at the coilovers, they just look immaculate, and their build quality looks second to none. I'd recommend getting each corner valved for your car, to include driver weight, and then they would be unstoppable. Of all of the coilovers that I have done research on, the Zeal's have one of the largest pistons, which would give the most response and direct feel over the smaller piston (comparatively) setups. Also, their ID60 springs are machined on top and bottom side for the most flat contact point, for equal distribution of stress, and also give a perfect fit. Also, a worthy note, the Function series includes an adjustable lower bracket for height, so the height can be tuned without sacrificing the stroke of the dampers. -These coilovers are recommended for track use only, as it is full aluminum construction- So daily driving is highly NOT recommended with these, as aluminum is MUCH weaker than Chromoly Steel casing.

*Swift are lightweight racing springs used by Amemiya on his quantum coilovers.

__________________________________________________ __________

Zeal Function B6

Color: Silver, Black and Blue Spring

*6-way adjustability
*Separate lower adjustable bracket for height
*Chromoly Steel construction
*Available for overhaul
*Large diameter piston

Includes: 4 dampers, 4 SWIFT* springs, 4 seat locks, 4 upper mounts, 4 dust boots, 4 hook wrenches

Ride height is fully adjustable, up to 2 inches-

FD3S information
Street version:
Front rate: 504 lbs/in
Rear rate: 448 lbs/in

Track version:
Front rate: 640 lbs/in
Rear rate: 559 lbs/in

MSRP: $2050.00

DC2 Information
Street version:
Front rate: 559 lbs/in
Rear rate: 336 lbs/in

Track version:
Front rate: 671 lbs/in
Rear rate: 448 lbs/in

MSRP: $1900.00

S13 information
Street version:
Front rate: 336 lbs/in
Rear rate: 280 lbs/in

Track version:
Front rate: 448 lbs/in
Rear rate: 392 lbs/in

MSRP: $2142.00



My Opinion: These coilovers are almost the same as the S6, but the B6 series is tuned for the street, and feature a chromoly coilover set up as opposed to the aluminum, so it can take more abuse from the streets. For a daily driven car, I would recommend the B6 series, as cities are littered with potholes and junk like that. Right now, for me anyhow, it’s a toss up from the B6 or S6. I want to do a lot of track work, but my car, for the most part, is daily driven. I want the higher performance from the lighter Function S6, but how much stronger are the B6? No one seems to know. . . .That speaks English anyhow. One thing I was able to decipher tho, was that the coilovers still use the SWIFT springs. Of course there is always one exception to every rule, and for you other FD owners here at Blue Cross, check out www.silverbulletrx7.com, the site owner's name is Charles, and he's cool as ice. He also has a great write up on these coilovers, as he has them on his car. After evaluating what I had planned on doing with my car, I’m starting to lean towards these more and more, as they are a very high quality and class of coilover.

__________________________________________________ __________

Tein type Flex-
Color: Black and green

*Full-length adjustment separate for height and spring load
*16 level of damping force, 32 with EDFC (compression and rebound together)
*Teflon coated for rust prevention
*Upper pillow mount included
*Available for overhaul

Includes: 4 dampers, 4 main springs, 4 sub springs, 4 lowering seats, 4 spacer spring seats, 4 thrust washer, 4 bump rubber, 4 dust boot, 4 pillow mounts, height measuring gauge and damping tool

FD3S information
Front rate: 559 lbs/in
Rear rate: 448 lbs/in

Lowering height:
Front: 23mm (.9 inch)
Rear: 41mm (1.6 inch)

My price: $1500 WITH EDFC

DC2 information
Front rate: 504 lbs/in
Rear rate: 224 lbs/in

Lowering Height:
Front: down 26mm (1 inch)
Rear: down 35mm (1.4 inch)

msrp: 1430.00


S13 information
Front rate: 280 lbs/in
Rear rate: 224 lbs/in

Lowering Height:
Front: down 33mm (1.3 inch)
Rear: down 40mm (1.6 inch)

msrp: 1560.00



My opinion: The flex was my other choice as the coilover to get for street and moderate track use. The rates are very streetable compared to the JIC's, as the spring rates are softer. I’m sure they will help absorb the little knicks and bumps in the road. Plus, with EDFC I can adjust the dampers to the softest setting in-car, so daily driving will be manageable, no longer a worry if I will hit a pebble and risk breaking the car, hahaha. Also, the EDFC has 3 preset levels you can set, so you can have street, asphalt, and Drag, while blinger’s will have street, floss, and pimp, Haha, But honestly, these, or the HKS hipermax have the softest springs, so I believe that these are great for street use, and with the EDFC, it can be tuned more stiff for any occasion.

I rode in my friend Brian’s Z33 with the flex set up on it, and he had his EDFC set to his “track” setting, and we did clover runs at 2 in the morning, and the car turned much faster than it did stock. When my FD was stock, I could take the off ramp/onramp at about 55 mph (recommended speed was 20 mph), and he was able to take it at 60-65 with the type-flex.. I know i know, different car different results. His stock Z33 used to take it at about 50-ish mph as well. Im just letting you know what I saw and came across. I know that’s not any “real” data, as its something done on the street, and not a controlled track environment. I initially wanted to go with these, until I started hearing feedback from drifters and casual track racers in Japan. . . .

One thing I have heard though, is that after the 1 year warranty is up, the coilovers tend to. . . . .come apart. Many people that I have talked to over in Japan said that these, well, all Teins’, are notorious for failure. With that many people having bad opinions about them, I don’t think I will be going with these.




Tein type RA-
Color: Black and green

Essentially same as Flex, except spring rates are stiffer and for track use:

FD3S Information:
Front rate: 895 lbs/in
Rear rate: 895 lbs/in

Height drop:
Front drop: 25mm (1 inch)
Rear drop: 45mm (1.8 inch)
NOT compatible with EDFC

MSRP: $1820.00

DC2 information:
Front rate: 783 lbs/in
Rear rate: 559 lbs/in

Height drop:
Front drop: 32mm (1.3inch)
Rear drop: 31mm (1.2inch)

NOT compatible with EDFC

MSRP: 1520.00

S13 information:
Front rate: 559 lbs/in
Rear rate: 448 lbs/in

Height drop:
Front drop: 33mm (1.3inch)
Rear drop: 30mm (1.2inch)

NOT compatible with EDFC

MSRP: 1520.00



My opinion: For an FD, spring rates THIS stiff, all with same rates, would make the car spin out of control if your skills aren’t very refined (from what all have told me). I drove my friend Jean’s FD with the TEIN Ra’s, and for daily driving, it felt too much. It was only driving around his neighborhood, and I could literally feel each crack in the asphault. We took it to the highway, and from 50-100 mph punches, the car didn’t rock much, so for straight line, it works well, but if you are like me, and don’t know too much about suspension works (sway bar setting, body stiffeners, etc) I’d say stay away from these.

Also, just for fun, check out the N1's specs




Tein N1 damper-
Color: green and silver

*Mono-tube design
*40 levels of adjustability
*Compression and rebound are adjustable separately
*Length adjustment and Height adjustment are separate than height and spring load
*Aluminum sock cases
*Note: Off road use only, race springs recommended

RATES. . . . . . .OH MY GOD!!!


FD3S information:
Front rate: 1119 lbs/in
Rear rate: 1119 lbs/in

Height Drop:
Front: 61.5mm (2.4 inch)
Rear: 54.5mm (2.1 inch)

NOT compatible with EDFC

MSRP: $2480.00

DC2 information:
Front rate: 1343 lbs/in
Rear rate: 1007 lbs/in

Height drop:
Front: 66mm (2.6 inch
Rear: 66mm (2.6 inch)

NOT compatible with EDFC

MSRP: $2240.00

My opinion: Yea. . . .These are track only. . . . Hahaha!



JIC FLT-A2-
Color: Gold, purple, red, silver

Features:
*monotube design
*Ride hieght adjustability is separate from spring perch
*15 way adjustable
*Upper ball mounts
*Camber adjustable

FD3S information:
front rate: 671 lbs/in
rear rate: 504 lbs/in

MSRP: $1850.00

DC2 information:
Front rate: 559 lbs/in
Rear rate: 392 lbs/in

MSRP: $1800.00


S13 information:
Front rate: 392 lbs/in
Rear rate: 280 lbs/in

MSRP: $1850.00


My opinion: I have not driven an FD with these coilovers, so I really can’t give any first hand infotmation. However, I heard many good things about these coilovers back in the day when they first came stateside (about 1 1/2 years ago I think), and many FD owners on the forum bought them, but now. . . .Now I have heard that their customer service has gone down the drain, as well as the quality, has been lacking for the past few months. Again, I don’t own a set, so I have never had to experience either of that. I read of 1 FD owner in on the forum who bought a set, and they worked great for about 2 months, until the oil reservoirs ruptured, so he had to send them back to get rebuilt. He hasn’t gotten them back yet (since I last talked to him 3 weeks ago). That’s a long time to have a car down.




HKS Hipermax-II-
color: Purple, black, and chromed silver

features:
*30 adjustable levels (WOW)
*Chromed Steel shock body
*Shortened cylinder and piston
*Single tube with large free piston
*Low pressure Nitrogen filled
*Dual oil gas chamber
*Anodized aluminum upper pillow mounts
*Anodized spring perches
*Progressive coil springs
*fully rebuildable

I could not get S13 or DC2 information, only FD3S for this model

Front rate: 450 lbs/in
Rear rate: 450 lbs/in

My opinion: The spring rate is one of the more softer ones, as opposed to the JIC and Tein. I’m not sure how the progressive spring rates would work though, with 450 lbs/in at all 4 corners if you plan on using the car competatively. If the springs were harder, I know the FD would be very prone to spinning out, as we naturally have over steer. But, with the spring rates that soft, I’m not sure if that will impact handling that much in the way of spinning, and the fact that since the springs are moderate, maybe setting the damping in the rear softer than the front, would even it out. Its possible that it may work, I just have no way of telling, since I don’t own them nor driven a car with these. The HKS D1 car ran the Hipermax's in Japan, if that means anything to anyone.

dis1

Some good research RedR1! However you mention the piston size of the Zeal is large. I did some research on piston sizes and Zeal was one of the smaller ones at 42mm. Compare this to Apexi at 52mm. Many of the others are between these two sizes. However Zeal has a special piston design, a DIV free piston. I'm not sure what exactly this is but apparently "DIV pistons maintain stable rebound/compression levels and prolong the life of the system." This special piston does make a slight noise though, like oil being sucked back and forth through a straw.

I didn't add my piston size research to my site because I decided it was a non-issue.