donsmith

Calling all hot shoes: I'm running SS class in my 93 R1 with Koni sports and the stock front sway bar, Kumho V700 at the stock size on stock wheels (it is a stock class). There's a lot of body sway now and I have low speed understeer and highspeed power-on oversteer, pretty neutral infact. I'd like to cut down on the body lean, if I go to a heavier front sway bar will it not just increase my understeer? Those of you who have upgraded the front bar: what do you do to counteract the understeer since we can't change the rear bar to match? Tire pressure changes help? And, am I just being **** or does body sway have any effect on times?? Reccommendations on the current crop of front bars, anyone??
Thanks.

DamonB

Me too.

I run Tripoint's adjustable front bar.

Only wheel size and offset must be stock, you can run any tire. Most run 245/45/16 and those are perfectly legal for stock.

Yes. Generally on an FD the heavier front bar will increase the understeer, especially in very slow, tight corners.

What settings are you running the Konis at front and rear? Generally I end up with the front at or near full hard and the rears within half a turn of full soft. My tire pressures go the same way; the fronts are a few pounds higher than the rears.

Following are my personal discoveries, try these for yourself. If any car is pushing, regardless of the setup, you as a driver always have the choice of just entering the corner slowly enough so as not to let the push get out of hand. No sense in just letting the front plow thourgh the entire corner. When I initially started playing with the front sway bar I had to make some real changes to how I drove the car. The harder bar actually made me slower if I didn't adjust myself to the car. For slow corners just enter slower, it's the only thing you can do. The stiff bar does pay off when you apex and go to the throttle because the car will stay flatter and so the rear can absorb the power easier. The stiffer front bar keeps the inside rear tire more highly loaded and so it can offer more grip. I can be more agressive with the throttle on corner exit and especially out of things like slaloms. Generally in slow corners I am a little more timid on entry, but more aggressive on exit. High speed sweepers are just wonderful because even with the stiff bar if you can carry enough speed you can get enough weight transfer across the car to make the car work. My car is much more stable and responds much better to throttle application in big fast turns than with the stock front bar.

Never be afraid to ask around in your club for help. Generally the really fast guys can drive anything fast so even if they know nothing of your car they can give something for you to try.

cpa7man

iTrader: (2)

Sounds like great advice Damon.

Donsmith, I had the pleasure of taking a lap on the TMS autocross course the weekend before last with him. Damon can drive the **** out of the car. I was very impressed on the handling of the car, got thru the course in a very good time, and would have been faster without the extra 200 pounds sitting next to him. Thanks again Damon for the awesome ride.

Paul

DamonB

Felt more like 300 pounds Your welcome for the ride and there is no reason you can't be doing this yourself.

We'll be at Pennington Field in Bedford this Sunday. You could have a little father vs. son rivalry; loser mows the grass.

www.autocross.com/er

cpa7man

iTrader: (2)

I'd hate to make the lad look bad. If I'm in town I'll be there. We might be up at Lake Texoma on Sunday.
His car is quite a bit faster than mine, and since I weight 300 pounds on the Damon chart, he'll probably take me. Not to mention that my car may have a cracked apex seal or is just suffering from low compression.

Thanks for the link. Autocross is a lot of fun. Your suspension setup works well, Konis have always had a great rep. The driver's skill level does have a little something to do with the end results. You could probably beat me in a Fiat 500.

redrotorR1

Kinda hard to do with the swaybar alone. And unfortunately, very hard to do if you have a limited budget. Stiffer springs (obviously not in stock class) and/or stiffer shock valving will help a lot with body roll. Upgrading the sway bar will induce a little push, but nothing that you can't tune back in and/or compensate for with better driver skill.

Alignment, shock settings, and tire pressures. If you feel that the car doesn't turn in fast enough, dial in more negative toe and camber. Supposedly, rear toe has a much greater effect, but the nervousness of the FD keeps me from experimenting with the rear toe. I run about 1/8" toe out on the front (disclaimer: EATS TIRES MAD QUICK!) and as much as -2.0 degrees of camber. If the car feels like it's not rotating fast enough or that it's lagging through transitions, try stiffening the rear shocks and bringing the front tire pressures closer to the rears. Less offset from front-to-back will help the car rotate faster ... however, the car will come around quick. It will require you to be a smooth driver .... any quick, jerky steering inputs will result in a spin. Last, but not least, if you still feel like the car plows into turns, TURN EARLIER!!!


Absolutely. Watch the really fast cars run. See how little the car leans through transitions.

Of the competitive RX-7's that I've seen and run with, everybody has the Tri-Point front sway bar. That's at every class level too ... SS, ASP, SM2. Adjustable, modular swaybar. Tough to beat.

donsmith

Damon, thank you for - as always - the thoughtful, intelligent advise. You are definitely the man as far as I'm concerned. I'll try your settings on my Koni's and install the poyl. bearings and new re-inforced brackets for the front mounts I just bought from Mazdaspeed; and I do intend to go to 245's as soon as these tires wear out. Then, maybe, if I can improve some as a driver, I'll get a stiff front bar. It really is what's behind the fifth wheel, and not what's going on with the other four, that makes the biggest difference.
Thanks again!

DamonB

All the more reason to take your son on! Actaully in first timers the ones with the least amount of power tend to do the best. It's harder for you to completely loose control

donsmith

Redrotor, thank you for some great advise. I know you guys know what you're doing so I value your advise highly, nothing like words to the wise from the pros. Looks like there's a Tri-Point front bar in my future. I think, just my own driving style, that I'd rather have oversteer than understeer, so I'll try running the Koni's a little stiffer in the rear and equal the tire pressure some. I've got -1.6 camber now and it turns in just fine.

KevinK2

addco makes a solid version of front bar, my be just right upgrade for u, and cheap.

crazysuprakid

I'd own you old man.

DamonB

Next event, July 20 at Pennington Field in Bedford.

The stopwatch never lies...


www.autocross.com/texasregion