reza

Have you try Hoosier?
Alex has them hoosier, they stick very good in corner, and the turn in is fast. Plus if you feel its going to slide, just put more throtle and it hook up straight like arrow...
I was going to order V710, but got Victos instead. The victos feel vague and slow turn in response. You turn, then it pause, then starts turning later...

DamonB

You're speaking portions of a second when you're talking Hoosier or 710 vs a Victoracer. No sense in my spending lots more money for Hoosiers only to loose by 3 seconds instead of 4 in Houston; no tire in the world is worth that kind of time.

I'm more pragmatic and realistic in my setup choices for the car. The Z06 drivers I outrun locally I will continue to outrun. The ones beating me usually put over a second on me. Switching to Hoosiers is not going to get me that second back. They have more grip than the Victoracer, but not enough to make up that kind of time. In the end I would spend more money to run Hoosiers but finishing position wouldn't change; no sense in that. If I were already in a Z06 the story would be different.

alwan16

all fd's in ss are now in a rut because of the power advantage and lack of rubber. those ss z06's are probably running 265 in front and 315 in back? combine that with 400 hp and our little 10 yo car is at a big disadvantage.

when reza is talking about the hoosiers there really is a big difference. part of the difference is running the extremely low 30 series profile on 18" wheels. add to that the additional stiffness of hoosiers and extra 2" of rubber on each tire with the 285 width and you've got a whole 'nother ballgame there really is a huge difference in the limits. i'm sure if you just bolted some 18x10's on you could gain another 1-2s on a 60s course. time to move to street mod 2 or asp right

reza

street tires to race rubber are day and night.
victo vs hoosier are morning and afternoon.
I had 2 year old hoosier, alex got ecsta previously then hoosier. Now I got victos.
And we have been using the different tires on different car, almost all combination now.
A subtle difference is that 17" vs 18". The 17" seems to be more forgiving

DamonB

ASP is useless because the Z06 is also in that class; street prepared mods are not going to close the gap to a Z06 no matter how big a tire you put on the FD.

SM2 is even worse. Unless you have lots of money to dump into an RX-7 you will not be nationally competitive. The FD no longer has so many intrinsic advantages compared to other cars like it once did.

At some point you just have to realize you're racing a car that is more than 10 years old. You can't overcome that unless you go into a Prepared class and essentially cut the car up and throw away most stock pieces. That's what it takes to be nationally competitive in those classes.

alwan16

i disagree that the fd is useless for ASP. although we will never have more horsepower than them autocrossing as we know isn't always about horsepower. the fd can definitely be nationally competitive with the right setup and driver. my car is far from prepped to the max of the rules (stock cat, a/c, passes smog, sunroof, etc.) and we don't do bad for two relatively beginning drivers.

so what if the car is 10 yo? the lotuses in our class are almost 40 yo and have maybe 140HP. are they still right up there? yes.

while we might not be able to whip anybody you can't say the fd is useless in asp just yet...i know ss is a different story though. i agree with you about street modified classes though, they are starting to be a playground for those with more funds. BUT, wait till you see andy mckee in the old tri-point fd in sm2 at nationals this year. that car is fast! i can't wait to see how it does against some 3-rotor competition...

just remember like life motorsports isn't always fair. sometimes how fast you wanna go depends on how much $$$ you wanna spend. jeez, gotta go buy a lotto ticket now

alex

alwan16

imo the turn-in on the 18" hoosiers is way better than 17" kumhos. i like they way they feel better too. can't complain about the treadlife of the kumhos though. we'll have to see about the v710 though. a3s04's are next

DamonB

With all due respect to everyone involved there is a chasm of difference between being regionally competitive and being nationally competitive. I've trophied in SS no worse than third each season since I started but I won't begin to tell you that's the same as doing it at a National Tour or in Topeka. You understand the difference once you see what the national trophy winners are capable of.

I love racing my FD and will continue to do so but ASP is no stomping ground when the Z06 is still present. All the advantages the Z06 has in SS over the FD it still has in ASP, with the exception that the FD can have more tire than it can stock. Tires and springs are not going to turn the FD into a Z06 killer in ASP. It absolutely will not happen.

alwan16

i totally understand what the really really fast guys can do and been to multiple national tours. but i'm going to tell you that it is possible. i'm not saying the fd with equivalent driver's is going to drill the competition by 2s over 2 days but at least stay within trophy range. yeah the fd can have more tire but it can also generate more power and do some weight loss at the same time. the z06 is an incredible car in ss trim (power & rubber) so its gains are fewer in sp.

DamonB

You sure you understand what is legal and what is not in SP?

Travis R

Exactly, I don't think you can even get an ASP FD to the same power levels of a SS Z06, legally.
I'd love to see an BP FD.
Back to sway bars:
I feel that sway bars are over used in suspension tuning. And it's because they are so easy to replace. Most of the time stiffer springs are what is needed (depending on the handling problem of course). And generally, if you are picking up the inside front tire it's because your front bar is too stiff.

adam c

iTrader: (2)

Since both cars can be modded in a similar manner, I don't see how the FD is going to gain significant ground on the Z06 in ASP.

DamonB

I agree. But in stock classes you're stuck with the stock springs, so the front bar and the shocks become VERY important since that is your only means of tuning.

You're right though. If the car needs so much bar that should tell you that something with the springs isn't quite right...

reza

Back to my car:
I have 675# spring front and 500# spring rear with the JIC FLTA2 coilovers.
And I am using the stock front swaybar with Mazdatrix Links and Widefoot mount. And stock 93 rear bar.
There is no softer front bar than stock right?
My understanding is softer front bar will induce oversteer as well.

DamonB

reza what is the car doing poorly right now? You've got adjustable shocks, use 'em!