here they are. another day at work ontrack. I believe Cam will be running at the Mitty at Road Atlanta... April 28-May1. Mazda is the featured MFR. if the stars align i might also be entered or in attendance. it would really be fun to race w Cam again back at our old stomping grounds.





there sure seems to be alot of hyperventilating re coil overs... (as usual).

make no mistake, the upper mount is a very important aspect of the dual purpose coil over.

compliance between the road and load is an essential element for roadgoing happiness. the upper mounts play an important role in absorbing NVH.

switching them out for ROD ENDS (mistakenly labled as "pillowballs" sort of like black is white) achieves not one iota of performance gain.

unlike greatly inferior strut suspensions, the double A arm scribes it's geometry completely independent of the upper mount.

the reason solid upper mounts on A arm cars are offered is companies did not choose to design a proper mount and just used the same mount as their higher volume strut mounts.

Strut cars have solid upper mounts as they ARE a part of the geometry.

news flash: the FD doesn't have struts.

Cam and i had a discussion re the design and we agreed the product would have to have a proper upper mount.

done.

if you use your FD on the street Trak Pro upper mounts will have you smiling instead of wincing.

howard

 

I would agree Howard, thus the reason my choice is down to 3 different coilovers. But read my post right before your last one and tell me those aren't all valid concerns. The fact that you can get the Tein and possibly the Stance with a different top mount and not have to deal with all of those make them stand out.

 

sooo wheres the shock dynos? (front and rear)

preferably FV as well as AFV. hysteresis kinda matters

 

Hopefully this will help others:

Finally got my Stage III close to final set-up with my street 235/40/r18 Yokohama Advan Neova AD08 tires before I take it in for corner weighting & a alignment. The back end still needs a little tweak as the front end lifts a little under WOT. The numbers below are for my set-up with 25.5" ground to edge of the wheel well on all 4 corners. I hope these numbers will help other their set-up using 10/12 springs with very little preloading. Also on the rear I installed 1/64" washers on both insides of the mounting bracket (4-1.25"-0.5" hole washers for the rears). Presently for the street I have the dampening set to 8 clicks from the softest setting all 4 corners but I may try more in the rears. (Very street-able)
On car numbers are: presently:
Rears:
Spring: 7.5" (I may go down to 7.375" for the front end lift)
Thread between upper & lower collars: 3/32" or .0937" (I may go up to 7/32" for the front end lift)

Fronts:
Spring: 7.375"
Thread between upper & lower collars: 3.875"


Also like to thank Howard for this tidbit of info earlier in the thread, I learn this the hard way:

The FD has aluminum A arms front and rear. both have a steel inserts. the insert slides when the mounting bolt is tightened. when you remove the lower mounting point no problems... however when you install the sleeve provides no clearance and needs to be spread apart.

it is really easy... get a 6 inch length of 3/8 threaded rod, a couple of nuts and 2 washers. w the shock out, slide the treaded rod into the sleeve, add a washer, two nuts and a washer slide the sleeve completely thru the lower control arm. turn the nuts so the washers exert pressure on the two sleeves, pushing them apart. presto, you have clearance and your lower mount will drop right in. when you replace the lower mounting bolt and tighten the nut the spacers will snug up against the shock mount.

easy if you know how. real difficult if you don't.

put down the file (yikes) and hammer
howard
P.S. Use lots of anti-seize on the sleeves!

 

Soooo no one has anything to comment about my post? I tried to sum up all the issues that were outlying so we can try and resolve them.

 

We're not commenting on your post because we've been discussing all of those issues for months now and it's just beating a dead horse. When you start dropping words like "paraphernalia" and "butt hurt", it makes it difficult to have a factual discussion. We're looking for ideas, facts, and suggestions. For instance:

The coilovers won't go low enough. Well you have three locking collars on each coilover. You can remove the thickest and bottom most locking collar completely. Then just tighten the shock body adjustment down with one of the locking collars from the spring height adjustment, and tighten the second locking collar for the spring onto that. It does the same thing locking the spring and shock, but with only 2 collars. This should give you another inch to lower the car. But this method was already brought up and mentioned months ago so it doesn't really need to be said again. That's why no one is saying anything because we don't need the thread going in circles endlessly around the same topics.

The Tein SS and Stance GR+ are not the same product. There are differences. The Trak Pro Stage 3, AKA Tomei N1 features "fast bump" valving. This is an extra valve which allows fluid to escape quickly if it becomes extremely compressed. This means that when you hit a large bump, the car doesn't bounce and the suspension absorbs the impact instead. It makes the car more drivable, which is what a lot of people are commenting on. That although it is stiff, if's also comfortable and controllable. The piston also features a low friction coating which increases the sensitivity. In addition to that the piston has a larger diameter which further increases sensitivity and the volume of gas. According to Tomei's catalog it has a 45mm diameter although someone could measure to confirm that. I can't find any information that detailed on the Stance GR+.

Springs are $40-60 a piece, not $100 each. I really appreciate the fact that the coilovers can have the springs changed and we can order them with whatever spring rate we want. It allows for more in depth tuning. The competition also has this feature, but I'm not sure if you can order the Tein or Stance with the custom springs. Also Tomei has agreed that they can do rebuilds, gas adjustments, valve adjustments. I'm not really saying where you should get them from, but it's the same product made at the same factory whether you get it factory direct or from a reseller.

 

Some features of the Trak Pros and ability to custom order springs might be important for those who track. But not everyone tracks. The downsides and costs for those of us with cars that are primarily street driven with maybe an occasional autoX is still significant over say...Tein SS. Still looking but have to make a decision soon.

 

Mandrake,

Yes they've been talked about, but no answers have been given for most of the issues. One of my big ones was the rear lowering height which seems like it could be solved by deleted that locking ring- But is there a downside to that? Why is it there in the first place if you can just delete it?

The mount at the bottom is too big. Are we just saying put some washers in there?

Anyone else having issues hitting the control arm other than the 1 guy?

And the big one, how much does a rebuild cost and can pettit do it or are we sending them back to Taiwan?

 

I've only seen one person with this problem. Mine sits perfectly parallel and isn't crushed. I'll post pics soon.

 

I don't have time to go back through all the pages but I know there have been a decent amount of people saying they've had to add washers. If you've read the thread, you know there's way more than 1 person with this issue.

 

Could these 'cases' be the same people that hammer/file the steel inserts in their front A-Arms to get the coilovers to fit?

See below. Zero spacers used. Torqued to Mazda spec with no gaps.
Picture is on short notice, but I'll yank the wheel this weekend and take a full picture.

 

That locking ring is used to lock the shock height. If the shock is lowered almost all of the way, so that the spring perch is at the bottom, then this extra locking ring would not be needed. But if you were to raise the coilovers so that the shock is not down so far, you would need this locking ring to do that.
So yes it is a problem. The spring should probably be 1" shorter. I don't know what the reason for this is, but I can ask Iasati.

 

Update to my previous post:
After replacing my plugs & wires yesterday and taking the FD for a 45 minute spin. With a temperature of 12°C (53°F) and a hell of a lot of rain. I decide to reset my damping to 9 clicks from the softest setting on the front and 12 clicks or centered on the rears, perfect. The ride even on broken tarmac back roads was not jarring (Very street-able) with just enough road fell. The front end lift under WOT is now gone, all in all very happy with the set-up and can't wait for my first track day or DGRR.

 

Took a better picture over the weekend:


I've only driven the car about 3 miles, trackpro stage IIIs, 6 clicks in the front, 4 in the back, and so far it rides like a dream.

I'll update again once the car is more roadworth and I can do a real break in of the suspension.

 

I'm confused; are you saying you like them even though they are hitting your control arm? I'd be pretty annoyed if my coil overs were hitting the control arm regardless of the ride quality.

 

Show me where I said it hits the controll arm? This thread is amazing.

 

What's that white line on your control arm from? It looks to me like coilover is hitting it. I could be wrong...

 

Physically impossible for the coilover to touch there. It's an unrelated mark that has been there since I owned the car.

The only person that has shown contact with the coilover is JhnRx7 and he hit the extruded nub on the upper A-arm. Verdict is still out on if his was caused by excessivly worn bushings.

 

ok, sorry about that. I thought it was hitting the inner edge of the tube. Glad your enjoying them .

 

Update on my suspension hitting the control arm:

Shortly after I posted in this thread about my discovery I called up Cam to see what he thought about the issue. After some discussion about the issue he told me I would need to cut that extrusion off of my control arm. I was unwilling to do that so he said he would have a new lower mount custom machined for me. I waited and three weeks after it was supposed to arrive and when nothing showed up I called back and he still had not started on it. At that point I returned them.

Here are some detailed pics comparing the lower mount versus my old tokicos. You will notice that the lower mount is substantially thicker and slightly lower. That situates the coilover closer to the control arm. I have since purchased a set of Stance coilovers and the lower mount of the stance is skinnier and slightly taller than the Tokico.










Check them again once you put them through some more serious use.

 

Defninantly will. Did you happen to take measurements of how your rears were setup (top of coil to bottom, thread showing) to allow the contact? I even put a jack under the tire and tried to simulate a full compression senario and never saw how that nub got close to the mount.

 

They were setup with the rear control arms parallel to the ground which i think left about 1/4-1/2" gap between locking collars.

 

fwiw, I don't have that nub on my rear control arms either. Looks like a defect on the control arm.

 

I just checked my install shots, and my arms have the "nub"... could it be that some people have the control arm installed upside down, and that also contributes to the ride height issue some have?

 

BlinD26, what rear ride height did you set the coilovers at?