Mazderati

iTrader: (3)

I have a new set of GAB Super R shocks that I had originally planned on using with M2's coilover kit but am now having second thoughts. For the money that I will have in the shocks and sleeve-type coilover kit, I could have bought a "genuine" set of coilovers from a company like Tein. The Koni coilovers set-ups that I have seen on the internet are sleeve types as well, but many people swear by these shocks. I am looking for feedback from anyone who has experience with any of these shocks or, ideally, has tried all three set-ups. I know that many people aren't fond of sleeve-type coilovers, but if Konis are raved about so much and they are sleeve-types themselves... As far as models of packages I have been looking at, they are as follows:

1. GAB Super Rs with M2's coilover kit at probably 550/450 spring ratings.

2. Konis either Tripoint or True Choice with their Eibach coilover kit at an undecided spring rate.

3. Tein's RA or RE (leaning towards the REs) "true" coilover kit. The wierd (so I thought) note about Tein's kits are that they come with such high 859/859 spring rates. Lower spring rates are available, of course, but at $50-60 per spring.

The car is not a daily driver so I am willing to compromise ride quality for performance. It sees the occasional autox and track day as well.

What kind of opinions does everyone have?

Thanks in advance.


-Kyle

ARD T2

iTrader: (22)

What about JIC? You won't need to pay for those extra springs, plus they revalve the dampers.

The Tein RE is comparable but much more stiff. Designed for track only purposes. Unless you live on a frozen lake. hehe

Plus they're cheaper, fully anodized and aluminum bodies.

Rishie\\

Either way, go with a true coilover. Especially something with independent ride height and preload functions.

1FooknTiteFD

I have option number 1 with the gab super r's and ground control 550/450 (same as m2 coilover sleeve). The car handles pretty good and i'm happy with it.

I have two friends, one with the TEIN RE and one with the TEIN HA. Both of them actaully handle better and are higher quality. I got my set at a super good deal, but if I had to pay full price, I would have definitely have gone with the TEIN's. Contact OSdesigns for details, he can offer the most competitive pricing

Mazderati

iTrader: (3)

Rishie,

While I have heard the brand name JIC a few times, I am not familiar with their craftsmanship, quality and performance. I have only heard one person's opinion so I won't make any assumptions/conclusions about them. What are the spring rates, adjustability levels and so forth on the JICs?

To all,

While the Tein's seem to be what I am leaning towards, I am wondering if an 859/859 spring rate front/rear is going to be optimal. And if not, I wonder what would be.

While I am willing to compromise ride quality for ultimate performance, I am not willing to compromise the durability of the suspension. I was, and still am, interested in the Tein N1 damper, but as I called Tein USA, they stated that it is track ONLY, saying that I would probably blow seals in the damper if driven on the street.

So, the best performance I can buy, with the best quality and craftsmanship, but at the same time, with the most durability also. That's one of the reasons I went with the GAB Super Rs to begin with, as I had known them to be very durable with primo performance.

Thanks.

-Kyle

1FooknTiteFD

kyle, 859 foot lbs springs are not very optimal unless your car is a track queen. The RE's come with that spring rate but you can get them with 550/450's (optimal in my opinion) if you want. 850 is too stiff for street, your ride quality will suffer and also if you drive your car on the street alot, you may even tweak your frame easily driving over these messed up roads all the time too

Aristo

iTrader: (8)

I really know nothing about suspension tuning, but what are the consequences of having an 859/859 front/rear spring rate on the Teins REs? Does the fact that the front/rear rates are the same mean the car will oversteer more? Is one supposed to compensate these coilovers with another set of sway bars? Why didnt Tein keep the ratio of front/back rates the same as the Tein HAs which are like 550/450?

DavidR

I can't answer the question about the why Tein has the same spring rate for the front as they do in the rear but I think the HA's have a much lower spring rate. More of a cushie ride.
Rishie- I talked with you a while ago about the JIC's. Can you pick the spring rate in that suspension? Can JIC rebuild the dampeners in the US or do they have to be sent to Japan?

maxcooper

I am totally guessing here, so don't take this as anything other than speculation but...

You will get a bunch of oversteer with those springs on a stock car unless you tune it out with other stuff. That actually makes the rear "wheel rate" (the stiffness at the wheel) higher than the front. The motion ratios are about 1.6F and 1.4R -- if you are really interested in digging into the details that will be useful information. A number of things could make those rates appropriate. A really, really stiff front sway bar. Rear tires that are much wider than the fronts. A rearward weight bias, perhaps from adding ballast, a huge fuel tank, more of the cage structure in the back, change the suspension geometry such that the motion ratios are closer, etc.

-Max

Aristo

iTrader: (8)

Ok Max, what you say makes sense..but it seems the only variables that one can reasonably adjust are beefing up the front sway bar, and putting more weight on the back of the car. Like the Tein REs, the newer versions of the HKS coilovers run a 10kg/10kg spring rate. Could it be that these setups are meant to be run with the rear end of the car lowered enough so that there is enough weight transfer to the back? I would think there would have to be a lot of additional weight in the back to make up for this.

maxcooper

Lowering the rear won't change the weight distribution noticably, and lowering the CG will reduce weight transfer (not the same thing as weight distribution anway). I don't think you'd want to increase the weight of the car beyond moving the battery, etc. Maybe if you've had your eye on that 150 lb stereo setup for the hatch.

Are the systems with the same spring rated F/R intended for street cars? It might be that they are meant for race cars with different setups than the stock car.

You can get some really beefy front sway bars. Couple that with no rear bar or a light rear bar (stock 94 or just your current stock bar) and it might be enough to balance the car. Wider rear tires may also help get the car into balance with these setups.

Again, this is just my speculation and is not based on any actual experience with the coil-overs in question. I did run a 550/450 spring setup for a while and found the rear end loose using the stock sway bars. The spring rates actually seem "right" (simialr wheel rates F/R for 50/50 car) but I think you need a stiff sway bar in front to make it easy to drive.

-Max

Mazderati

iTrader: (3)

The Tein RE is said to be for track use.

-Kyle

ARD T2

iTrader: (22)

The JIC's can be rebuilt in house at Ziel Motorsports. You can actually select the valving and spring rates you desire. IF you want a drag setup, roadrace, street/track. All of these can be done. An infinite number of options there.

The JIC FLTA2's in JDM spec also have symmetrical spring rates front and rear. They were around 14kg.

Laters, Rishie

Aristo

iTrader: (8)

Does anybody here have the HKS Hiperdamper IIs or the Tein REs, and if so could you please tell us your impressions of the way they make the car handle?

fdracer

the r series tein's will be too stiff for the street. stick w/ the h's. i'd go w/ the he's, if you got a few extra bucks, over the ha's

ARD T2

iTrader: (22)

STIFF, HKS, APEXi N1, Tein RE. STIFFFFFFF.

JIC FLT-A2, very comfortable for monotube coilover. It's quite simple.

rishie

1FooknTiteFD

one of my friends have the Tein RE and another one has the HKS hiper damper. The Tein RE is very very stiff, but the HKS is perfectly streetable and handles very well. The shocks are 38 way stiffness adjustable (from the top of the shock tower) so you can virtually make them as soft as a stock rx7

suganuma

I have option one....

GAB Super R
500 and 400 Ground control

car is without engine though so i havent gotten to drive it like this yet...

don't be a rishie

Just get JIC man... I keep telling you guys.
ever consider JIC? they can make your car handle like a F1 car!!

infinit1

Have never relly heard anyhting good about JIC but I have the Tein HA's and they are fine for street use and track. Actually most people think that they are too stiff for the street with the 10K/8K springs in them.

voodooracing

The Type HA performs very well on the track. There ride comfort seems to be acceptable.

djmessiah

the best thing about JIC is the fact that you can lower your car with out decreasing the travel. The quality of these shocks are among the best.