hi team,

i have the factory service manual and have read over the camber section. i have lowered my car and thus need to do it.
can anybody give me tips...i am still confused and eating away the inside tread of my z-rated rubber. the manual says to loosly tighten the rear camber nut, lower car,and then tighten it with car unladen.
what does that mean?
any tips would help me out a great deal, thank you.
rajeev.

 

There are cam bolts on the lower arms (front and rear) to adjust camber. You need to be able to measure camber to make the adjustment precisely. Take it in for an alignment after you lower it, or buy a camber gauge and do it yourself.

Toe can change from lowering the car, too, so that might be another factor contributing to the tire eating.

-Max

 

thanks max,
i only know one great alignment shop with a pit near here, but they charge 80. i dont have a guage either. is there any way to just eye ball it and make them vertical again? also, the cars suspension is otherwise stock, minus springs, do you think my toe is still off? they all look pretty straight line forward to me. bottom line, i have to do this myself.
on the cam bolt, is there just one per corner?
rajeev

 

Is there a Sears Auto Center near you? It sounds a bit silly, but they have good alignment machines and charge a reasonable price for an alignment. I have had my local Sears align my car several times over the years.

You don't want them to be vertical, but rather a degree or so in at the top. Pettit has some alignment specs on their site. If you just want vertical (which I am not recommending), you could do it with a level against the wheel. If they aren't about the same left to right, the car will handle strangely. Some people might be able to guess within a half degree or so, but I don't think I could, and half a degree is a big difference. I don't recommend eyeballing them. You could probably do some calcs and use a level with some shims, but even that might take a great amount of care to do precisely.

For toe, you can measure it yourself. There are a number of relatively inexpensive or DIY toe gauges you could buy or make. The basic idea is that you use pencil to draw a line on the tread as you spin the wheel, and then carefully measure the distance between the lines on the tread across the car. The difference between the measurements across the front of the tires and the rear of the tires will tell you the toe. The trick is to measure precisely, which is what the various toe-measurement devices help you do.

The rear suspension just has one cam bolt on the lower lateral link on the inboard side. The front suspension has two cam bolts on the lower arm on the inboard side. These also control the caster on the front.

Unless you want to become a DIY alignment expert and invest in some tools, though, you just have to take it to an alignment shop. I have been going to alignment shops for a while, but I am interested in gaining the knowledge and tools to do it myself. The book "How To Make Your Car Handle" has a lot of this info and shows how to make some of the tools. It is an old book (1981), but I just bought it (almost done reading it now) and I like it a lot. It sounds like a lot of work because of the precision required, but I would still like to be able to do it myself. If that interests you, get the book. If not, an alignment shop is your only option.

-Max

 

MAX: you got any tools in the making? I am also interested in either doing my car myself or at least taking it to a place that SPECIALIZES in performance and/or track cars. I too have used Sears over the years (they have great 4 wheel laser equipment) but the majority of the time, the tech gets scared if you ask him for anything outside of the factory settings.

Talk to you soon,
Tom

 

I'll probably make my own toe gauge. Camber gauges are about $200-300, and some can be used to measure caster and even bump steer. I found corner scales for $425 for a set of four. I haven't looked around too much, but this is what I found in my Pegasus catalog.

I've got a tire pyrometer.

-Max

 

i read that book cover to cover and although it is somewhat dated, covered all the basics very well. i initially thought i might give it a go (home alignment), but then thought twice. i think the expense (tools) and time just aren't worth it. even the biggest dolt can do a precision alignment on the newest laser machines. the only way i'd go through all the trouble to DIY was if i were going to use different settings for different tracks. otherwise a couple of visits while you are getting dialed in is probably the best approach, and will still be cheaper than buying the right tools. additionally, i doubt i could be as precise at home as on a real alignment rig.
--------
btw max, what settings are you using on the track these days with the 285's. i just have one track day on my 285's and am just beginning to dial in settings using the pyrometer.

@sears point raceway, after optimizing pressures with the pyrometer (38-39psi, hot, all around) i noted that my fronts were hot on the outside with the following: camber -1.5, caster 6,toe 0.
rears were pretty even across with camber -.5, toe 0. i'm going back to get -2.0 at the front and leave everything else more or less alone.

this is on khumo v700's

regards
fabian

 

Hey, that's great info, Fabian, thanks for sharing. I don't have any settings worth sharing, and I haven't been to the track for over a year. I've been really lazy for a long time. Too much time posting on the forum, perhaps.

Based on your feedback and some pics I have of my car with only the very inside of the rear inside tire touching on a turn, I think I will run much less camber than the -1.1 I have in back right now. Also based on your feedback, I'll probably try to dial in some more neg camber in the front. Currently, I've got the front set at -1.1 also.

-Max

 

yeah, i bet you could use more negative on the front. you've "probably" got too much neg on the back, but if your "overall rear roll rate" is lower than mine, then that much negative may be appropriate. only the pyrometer can tell. since i run much higher spring rates, my overall roll rate is probably higher, unless you have huge anti roll bars. i have a stock 93 r1 rear, and a racing beat front sway bar. spring rates are 14kg/mm front and 12kg/mm rear. i may drop those rears a bit or get a larger front bar since i'm oversteering a bit right now, and when i get a perfect front camber setting, that may get worse.

any chance you might be at buttonwillow any time soon? i'm coming to southern california for other reasons in march and will likely attend the open track event there on march 15-16. it would be great to meet the man behind the "cooper fitment"...plus i've never driven buttonwillow so i need some line advice

--fabian

 

anyone run around -3.0 degrees up front and -2.5 camber in back?

 

That is WAY too much camber! This isn't a BMW!

 

You can't get those numbers unless the car is lowered. Even then tires for this car will never require 3* in the front.

 

Just a helpful hint, but you should ask about the 80 dollar alignment, some of the shops around here just charge you 80 bucks one time and they do lifetime alignments, or a one time fee for the year.

I would look into that. There's a good shop near me that charges a lifetime fee of 120 dollars. Too bad they can't set it to your liking before a track day.

 

Most alignment shops around here can't even make an alignment precise enough to count as being an improvement. I'd rather pay $90/ea for a good alignment from the local suspension guru than pay $80 for a lifetime of shoddy setups.

Dave

 

How much negative camber woudl you say RE Amemiya's Touge car is running. A lot of the track FDs I see in hot version and best motoring look like they are running some seriously negative camber out in back. Especially the touge FD. That thing looks liek it is at least -3.0 in the rear.