RX-7 Newbie

I've been looking at the Tein RE's for an FD that will be driven on the street mostly, but I'm not at all thinking about ride comfort.

I'm looking for the "best"/lightest set of coilovers out there. The races I get into are mainly slaloms, and handling/weight is everything.

I don't care the slightest bit about ride comfort, as it will mainly be a night time weekend car, and I have a truck that I use as my daily.

What I really need is as much grip as possible. Also, what is a good set of sway bars for the FD? Again, lightweight but good stiffness is important.

Also, does anybody know of a company that sells polygraphite bushings for the FD?

Thanks much!

rynberg

If you are exceeding the limits of the stock suspension on the street, you are an idiot and are going to kill someone.....

Having a really stiff suspension on public streets is not too smart. You will actually have less grip because bumps will upset the car. The more streetable coil-over setups, such as the Tein HAs and the JIC FLT-A2s, will probably handle better on public roads and will be less punishing.

If you are never hitting the track, save some money, pick up a set of sport springs and some Konis/Bilsteins/GAB shocks and be done with it.

OC_

im totally with rynberg, racin isnt for the street. Im sure you can have fun out in the country some place, but if you can be 100% sure its safe, then dont race on it. And how many streets are you 100% sure on?
race tracks dont have things like curbs, on coming traffic, people on midnight strolls, noise restrictions, and so on. If the street you race on has a chance for any of the above, dont race it.
and if you are out there alone, and you really get yourself in trouble whos going to rescue your *** when you put it into (place hazard here)?

As for the suspension; you have to remember, the stiffer springs you get, the more perfect the road has to be. with high spring rates, little bumps and cracks will just seem to toss you car.

I would recomend you ride in a car with the rates your thinking of getting, then see if thats going to be too stiff.
A lot of people say the HA's are too stiff, i THINK the JIC's have a lower rate.

13BWankel

How about using HKS Hipermax II dampers alongside with Eibach lowering springs? I believe that this combo would do well for road handling as well as for use on track. What else is there good in the market that can handle well? A'PEXi coilovers or maybe Ohlins or even Tanabe? Comments please and thank you.

www.SpeedXS.com - Center for Japanese Performance

rynberg

I actually gave you some good advice, if you would quit ranting long enough to read it. Really stiff suspensions may handle worse than softer suspensions on public streets that have uneven and broken pavement. Just having the stiffest suspension available isn't going to improve your handling.

As far as Konis and springs giving "mediocre" handling, I and many other people would disagree. Several people on this board track their cars with these setups.

For someone who doesn't seem to know suspension basics, you are sure quick to ignore advice given to you.

As I posted above, the Tein HAs or JIC FLT-A2s are a much more streetable coil-over setup than the REs or other coil-overs with similar setups. BTW, Tein recommends the REs for TRACK ONLY.

If you are really interested in increasing the slalom performance and grip of your car, a set of Konis, a larger front anti-roll bar, and a set of R-compound tires would work wonders.

redrotorR1

If you truly want RACING shocks/coilovers, then forget all this Tein, JIC, HKS bullshit. All these so-called race tuned suspensions have very stiff spring rates ... some that are the same rates front and rear! Any true coilover that does not offer independent bump and rebound settings does not qualify as a "race" coilover setup in my book. Talk to Tri-Point Engineering, Ankeny Racing Enterprises (A.R.E.), Advanced Design, Dynamic Suspensions, or Drummond Motorsports. All these guys are widely used in real race cars and they can tune shocks specific to your needs. Race shocks ain't cheap ... and I highly recommend NOT driving them on the street.

BTW, what kind of racing are you doing that is mainly slaloms?

Gravity

Rynberg,

If you were trying to help him, why did you refer to him as an idiot? Was it because of street racing?

I just read 4 pages in a thread about you hitting 170 on a public road racing a 456GTA Ferrari, I would think you'd be the last one to talk about the inherent dangers of street racing. Especially since if he's running slaloms, I doubt he's hitting speeds over 70mph, 100mph slower than you were going with people around.

He also talks about a "starting line", perhaps there is a slalom course set up? "people aren't allowed past the starting line", were people inside the cars that the GTA flew by?

I'm not trying to point fingers and say one or the other is wrong, his attitude in the reply was wrong, but you making a referance to him as an idiot was wrong as well. I just don't understand people not showing some common respect for a human being when on a forum, and treating somebody how you would like to be treated.

Anyhow, thats my $.02.

rynberg

I did not call him an idiot. I said that "If you are exceeding the limits of the stock suspension on the street, you are an idiot and are going to kill someone". That was meant and stated as a general statement. The fact is, you can go stupidly fast on public streets with the stock suspension. There is no need to upgrade the suspension for street driving.

That wasn't me, that was "ronardt". I have hit 150 mph on a public highway at 2am. Was it stupid? Yep. Was there anyone within a mile of me? Nope, except for the Ferrari Testarossa right next to me -- what is it with Ferraris....

An admirable attitude and one we should all live by.

RX-7 Newbie

I'm sorry, rynberg, I was in a bad mood last night and took it out on the first person I came across, you, heh.

Thanks for the input, I appreciate it.

rynberg

No problem, I get PMS too. More than once a month...

LetsGO7

iTrader: (2)

Redrotorr1,

I don't think Tein is "Bull ****"! Tein offer from ONLY Race to comfort. I don't think you have seen some of their top top stuff.

Same spring rates...I think the reason for that is that RX7 has the 50/50 weight ratio (not sure). Tein's make them and test them on the car which is design for. They even have S-tyre setup and street tire setup.

Also the rebound is missing in some but Tein makes models that do offer them. If you feel that in order to be a race suspension, the shock needs compression and rebound adjustment, you are DEAD wrong. RE Amamiya Time Attack car runs Quantum RS which are only one way adjuctable (tuned to there needs for the rebound). By the way, the RE Ama's time attack car is one of the FASTEST FDs, setting some crazy low lap times! Time Attack is not car to car racing, which saving tyres and other compontents might be ordered by the pits, but it can see a lot more harsher time on the track.

Some of you may never heard of Quantums but they are Japanese design made in England. Don't even think about getting them unless you are totally serious, why? THEY are HELLA expensive!

RX-7 Newbie,

RE's are very good compare to HAs. I don't want to say over kill but running very nice sticking tyres is adviced. Remember, RA and REs are similar but REs are constructed with lighter material (alum.). shock height adjustment over the RAs. i believe it's 16/16 for the spring rates...that's pretty stiff and as stated above and replied by rynberg, GOOD TYRES! Tein doesn't release important specs on the high end shocks as much and REs not sure of but i think it's 50mm piston, which are pretty big...Apex N1 coil-overs are around the same...

Also you have to remember, REs are few step up from a entry level circuit racing shock so extra care might be noted. This means rebuilding them in order to get the top performance. (WRC cars rebuild if possible every event and sometimes EVERY service stop). Just because it's a racing shock that doesn't mean it will last longer. I think people mistake that....

I hope this helps.

-joe

redrotorR1

I have seen their top stuff. I'm not saying it's crap ... but compared to a Penske 8100 series or a Koni 28 series, the shocks are way behind. There are some reputable Japanese-made coilovers ... but they are still not on the same par level. Go look at what top drivers in ANY race series run .... ALMS, Trans Am, World GT, SCCA Club racing, NASA, Solo I, Solo II .... I dare you to find a set of off-the-shelf tuner brand coilovers on any of those cars. With shocks, you get what you pay for.

Anyone who has competitively driven an RX-7 knows how incredibly stupid this statement is. You wanna run 600lb spring rates front AND rear? Go ahead ... have fun. You'll be the only assclown who puts himself into a wall. Either that or you'll be the numbnut who can't figure out why he keeps looping it on course.

Riiigghht ... that's why F1, Champ Cars, and even WRC cars use shocks that are triple and quadruple INDEPENDENTLY adjustable. That's right, jackass ... independent bump and rebound ... hi-speed and low-speed. Oh BTW, your precious Tein and other brand coilovers adjust bump and rebound simultaneously. And I'll bet dollars-to-donuts that these Quantum RS's do the exact same thing. If you want real racing setups, get out on the track and see what other people actually run .... not what some magazine tells you.

rceron

Most track driven FD's have at least 125 lb spring rate difference between the front and back. 50/50 weight distribution is a static description. While hard braking weight shifts to the front of the car. Spring rates should be higher so that the front of the car doesn't dip down to unsafe levels and cause stability problems. Under acceleration you don't want the back spring rates to be too high as the stiffer part of the car (front vs. back) will tend to lose traction first (can you say "oversteer").

R

LetsGO7

iTrader: (2)

welll it's seems like alot of race team uses the same spring rates.

some go up to 23/23!!! To be more exact super taikyu spec RX7 from last year used 23/23.

I think c-west taikyu is close or the same.

LetsGO7

iTrader: (2)

RedrotorR1,

seems like you are one hostile guy...i was trying to be informative...you seem to over look the tein products.

you list penske's shock model 8100 but not the tein model. I guess you don't have a open mind about things.

Tein has the N1s and HTs maybe you should be looking at those before saying anything else. To note no one in the states ordered the HTs nor the N1s (comp and rebound adjustment). I don't get how it adjust the both setting at the same time when it has a two *****, one at the top and one at piggy back tank. Care to explain? I really don't know how you got the impression that they are ajust both setting at the same time.

i know people from tein, jic, and others (long story but call them to put some orders in), anyway long story short, we were talking about the HT model and Tein USA never gotten a order for this nor the N1s. Although some one in canada ordered a N1 spec for his civic, just because it's a civic that doesn't mean everything is a joke also japan has alot of one make SPL races, such as one make civic.

Reading from some magazine? when did i say my info was from magazine? it's an actual setup used by japanese race teams printed. I guess they are jackasses right?

My precious Tein?! Don't talk like a dick! I don't own a set because i am still searching (It can be anything...showa, ohlins, etc).

Off the Shelf my ***! They those two i mentioned are made on order. Hell N1s don't even come with set springs, one must order them separately. Seems like you look into US racing scene which is fine but they don't race the RX7 as much in japan.

Alot of japanese brand offer 2way but usually it's a special order and some don't even ad it. RS is one way...i stated that and you saying "I bet quantums are the same" really didn't make sense to me. Quantums do offer 2way with their CR series (piggy back style only, i believe).

Does that make you feel better?! I don't care but don't put me down publicly like this. If you have a question about my source or creditability, just ask instead of talking ****.

thanks

oh and to Rceron,

RE Ama's FD run 18/16~16.5 (they change the setting day to day). Cars that race super taikyu run close to factory powerplant. they add the usual race stuff like the CRAZY fuel system, diff and tranny coolers, and suspension, the list goes on but the powerplant stays some what untouched.

rynberg

Letsgo7:

You obviously know little about suspension setups and I doubt you have ever been on the track. RedRotor1 and Rceron are experienced track drivers. You are way out of your league here.

IMO, a lot of Japanese coil-overs are setup for drifting, rather than grip driving. They also use close to the same spring rates because most of them run wider tires in the rear and larger anti-roll bars up front. Together, these may result in a fairly neutral car, but then again, maybe they won't.

rceron

Another thought...if we are talking about professional cars they probably run with HUGE rear wings which MAY force them to up their rear spring rates.

gambone

iTrader: (3)

this is on the front of my RX4 it's from a S10 and the one in the rear is all most as big, and it will get hung up in a pot hole

redrotorR1

Hey bud, you called me out. Now I'm the *******? If you can't take some criticism, then quit posting definitive statements that make you look like as ***. If I come off as rough, it's only because I can't stand it when people go on spouting off about some flavor-of-the-month product that they have NEVER EVEN TESTED THEMSELVES! And you stubbornly admonishing to run with really stiff spring rates on BOTH front and rear .... it's going to get some newbie hurt or killed ... and cost someone a lot of money in damages and whatever else might be incurred.

You can talk all you want ... experience is worth its weight in gold. I have firsthand competitive driving experience on the Tein RA's .... I thought they were decent. But, would I spend money on them? Nope. I thought the shock valving was too progressive and the spring rates were too much for the car. I have probed Tein USA about getting custom valving and specific spring rates. They did not give me a competent response .... uh, well, our customer service techs can handle that .... sorry, won't cut it in my book. And I have driven cars with custom-tuned Koni's, Penske's, and AD's ..... and the performance showed.

And as far as insulting goes, none of my remarks were intended as direct accusations. It's called sarcarm there .... grow a thick skin, eh?

LetsGO7

iTrader: (2)

I didn't think that kind of criticism was needed. I guess experienced people always have a way to say things and make people butt hurt.

hey rynberg, out on the track...racing kart count?

I guess karts are TOTALLY different from cars...I guess i should just drive and stop looking like a JACKASS? I think Tein can be as competitive (against koni and penske) when Tein starts releasing master shop dealers. Tein Master Shop is a dealer where they service the coil-over, hence rebuild and re-setting. Once they start to appear, I hope redrotorr1 gives it another go.

rynberg

Well, considering a lot of karts don't even have a suspension....

gambone

iTrader: (3)

I didn't stop to read all the post just went to the last one and put a plug in . note one thing I did say it will hang up in pot holes , yes one can push the limets. I don't think I'm there yet but I don't want to get there

80-CU.IN.T

KKAANN'T we all just get along. I see true lovin in the makin.

DamonB

You need to understand the difference between "spring rate" and "wheel rate". The geometry of the front and rear suspensions is different and therefore the leverage the springs have against the chassis is different. Just because the front and rear springs have the same rate does not mean the front and rear suspensions are equally stiff. Wheel rate takes into account the mounting of the springs in the chassis.

Any road racing FD running spring rates on the rear the same as the ones on the front is greatly lacking in performance potential.

Spring Rate: A measurement of the force it takes to compress a spring a certain amount. Springs with higher rates are stiffer. (Not to be confused with wheel rate!)

Wheel Rate: A measurement of the force at the wheel it takes to compress the springs when installed on the suspension. Wheel rate is determined by the geometry of the suspension and the spring mounting. The rate could be linear with suspension movement, or have a varying ratio.