jimlab

Just wondering if there's any interest in an all-inclusive bushing tool kit that would allow you to remove and replace every bushing in the suspension without buying a hydraulic press (although they could probably be used with a press if you already have one). The various pieces would be made from hardened 4340 or 4140 chromemoly steel and probably black oxide coated.

I've got dimensions on all the parts needed in CAD files and I can come up with bulk pricing if people are interested. Keep in mind that the average shop would take several hours to R&R bushings at $50-60/hour, and a higher quality hydraulic press costs around $200 even before you start acquiring an expensive set of sockets to use for pressing out the various bushing sizes.

FDjunkie

What kind of price range?

jimlab

My pricing isn't quite as good as I thought it would be...

5-9 - $465 + shipping
10-14 - $345 + shipping
15-19 - $290 + shipping
20-24 - $265 + shipping
25-29 - $250 + shipping
30-39 - $240 + shipping
40-49 - $225 + shipping
50-74 - $210 + shipping
75-99 - $195 + shipping
100+ - $185 + shipping

That includes 12 major pieces in 4340 chromemoly, heat treated, with black oxide coating, and grade 8+ hardware. You can see an example of one of the pieces below...



The nice thing about the tool kit is that you wouldn't have to rig up arrangements like this (below) to get the bushings out, so it's safer, and you can remove and replace bushings without completely removing the suspension pieces from the car, so it's faster. You don't have to find a place to store a hydraulic press afterward either. The entire kit will fit in a small box.

artowar

iTrader: (1)

I'm always interested in tools, and don't have space for a press. Throw in the box and I'll go in

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

Are you planning on a kit with just the appropriately sized pieces or will you include an insertion/removal tool too? I am thinking specifically of tool A-0048 on this site:

http://www.victoryproductdesign.com/tools_main.htm

which I used recently to remove and install a rear trailing arm bushing on a BMW 3 series. It is a custom piece for just one bushing, but you could imagine a set of threaded parts that would work with a series of bushings.

If you do not intend to include this tool I'm not really sure how your pieces would be used to do an on-car bushing insertion/removal.

As an aside, I recently did a both and on-car and off-car control arm bushing replacement (on a BMW) and I really would like never to have to do the on-car variety again. Pulling off a suspension piece and using a press to remove and install a bushing is bliss compared to lying under a car wrestling with a removal tool. Given the (relative) ease of removing FD suspension pieces compared to some cars and the availability of decent 12-ton hydraulic presses for $200 or so I am not sure on on-car replacement is much of a plus with an FD.

Not trying to be negative because I am always trying to come up with excuses for buying new tools but I guess I am not sure of the advantages of what you are offering.

jimlab

The pieces are the insertion/removal tools. They include a "cup" to pull the bushings into, various size supports which insert into the cup that work with the suspension components, and installation/removal "plugs" that pull the bushings out of or into the sockets.

That's what I'm talking about. A tool kit for all the suspension bushings on the FD.

Some people don't have the space for a hydraulic press or want to have one kicking around the garage after they're done using it. It's also difficult to use a small $200 press to remove and replace the bushings on odd-shaped suspension components like the FD has, and I speak from experience. Only with the two anvil plates, 5 pieces of bar steel, and a very large set of sockets was I able to remove and install all of my bushings.

No offense taken.

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

Ah, now that sounds more interesting. I would be interested. $200 or so would be a nice price point if possible. (I'd lose the black oxide coating unless it costs very little.)

jimlab

It adds about a dollar per part, same with the heat treating.

While it would be nice to get it under $200 in smaller quantities, I have almost no profit on the prices above. The only way I can reduce the price of the tool kit is to reduce the quality of the components.

turbogarrett

iTrader: (1)

I would be interested if the price was a bit lower.

cover8

Im in Jim! I have done the bushings and it is a PITA with a normal press.

FDRich

iTrader: (1)

Count me in. I'm going to be replacing my bushings mid 2005.

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

A few weeks ago I would have said to just go ahead and make the parts out of cheapo steel, but my experience with the $87 aftermarket BMW bushing removal tool (which is made of untreated steel) made me realize that these parts have to be of very high quality. I used this tool on just two bushings and already part of it is useless because the threads deformed on the soft metal because one of the bushings was a total PITA. (The equivalent OWM BMW tool is $400 so I guess you get what you pay for.)

Count me in if you decide to go ahead.

DamonB

The way I look at it is that I'm not going to be changing suspension bushings very often. At least by purchasing sockets I have a tool I may have use for again in the future since you never know when some giant bolt might need to be removed Though a true set of installers and receivers would be nice I'd only use them the one time unless I did this for a living and they'd still need to be cheaper than just buying sockets.

With the exception of the pillowballs everything else requires removal from the car anyway. I would think that's what you'd want to do because you're going to want to clamp the part in a vise to hold it while you crank on the press if the bushing is stubborn at all. Once you have to remove the bolts the bushings pivot on you're going to want to get aligned so it makes sense to me to just go ahead and remove the part from the car.

jimlab

Damon, to be fair, you've only replaced trailing arm and differential mount bushings (to my knowledge). Even if you add the rear pillow bushings, we're talking about the easiest bushings on the car to replace. My Nylon bushings are also very easy to install with a decent set of sockets, a press, a few bars of steel, and a little creativity, as shown in my How-To thread. They were designed that way, with a slight taper to the bushing body to make getting them started easier.

However, the OEM bushings in other areas (front upper and lower control arms, rear shock mount, rear lower control arm damper bushing) are not so easy to replace, and you'll find out quickly that even a good socket set isn't going to cut it. It's very difficult to find a socket with an ID that fits over some of the bushings, matches the outside diameter closely, and will push on the right area of the bushing while installing, and not screw the bushing up. Considering the cost of OEM bushings, installing them right could be worth the cost of a tool kit to make that possible.

For example, I used sockets to replace the OEM damper bushings on my rear lower control arms and even with a wide array of sockets of various sizes and manufacturers to choose from, couldn't find one that wouldn't damage the rubber lip around the flange, and on one, the bushing stopped moving while the flange bent inward. Now I wish I'd had the right tool, and I'm working to make something that will seat that bushing the rest of the way and hopefully repair the damage I did without having to replace a $65 bushing.

My trailing arms have also taken a beating from having stock bushings pressed out, Nylon bushings pressed in, Nylon bushings pressed out, and pillow bushings pressed in. They don't fit on the anvils of the press well, and even with rags underneath to try to cushion the arms, they still got damaged. Other suspension pieces don't fit well on the press either.

This tool kit is designed to replace all of the OEM bushings on the car, without damage to the suspension pieces or the bushings, and without requiring anyone to set up a potentially dangerous configuration in a hydraulic press. Some times there's nothing like having the right tool for a job.

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

It seems that these tools are going to be a hard sell. Paying $300-$500 for a set of tools that are going to be used perhaps once in a person's life is going to be difficult for many people to justify.

However, you could produce a small run of these tools for rental purposes. You could then, for example, charge $70 or so plus shipping to rent each set out for a few weeks. You could initially charge a renter's credit card $500 and refund the difference when they return the tools undamaged. It might only take a few months to recoup your costs and beyond that point they would be a cash cow. You could also rent each set fairly easily with each set of Unobtanium bushings you sell for a reduced fee.

DamonB

At this point I have replaced everything but the front lower a-arm bushings and the rear pillowballs (both already new) with my press and of course copied your technique since you'd done it and it worked. Having the correctly sized tool for installing them all is key but I was able to find what I needed between sockets and a couple pipe fittings. The kit would certainly be a joy to have and use, I just don't see it ever being worth $350 (even then I'd be very suprised if there were that many buyers) for a one time use that will sit on a shelf. Maybe if my arms were polished like yours I'd be ultra sensitive to marks on the parts but the receiver is still going to have to push against the parts.

FarNorthMotoring

iTrader: (2)

If it makes it to the 10+ set, I am in.

jimlab

I hear what you're saying, but compare the tool kit price to a $200 hydraulic press, some bar stock, and an extensive set of 3/4" drive sockets that many people won't use again either. Do you know how much use I have for my hydraulic press right now? None.

For those who don't have the time or skill to do it themselves, shop rates can range $50-75/hour for installing the bushings. Many people have paid more than $300 to have their bushings installed at various shops. They're not getting that money back either, so it's all relative.

Possibly. I thought about that, but the honor system makes me nervous, and if someone breaks a part of the tool while it's in their possession, what then? I don't have the ability to charge someone's credit card other than using PayPal, but that could probably be made to work.

I was going to buy Mazda's bushing tool with the "refunds" from the last bushing group buy and then send it around to all the group buy members, but the price was much higher than the amount of the refunds, and the SST tool kit is apparently impossible to get. I've had one "on order" for 8 months now.

I'd love to be able to sell this tool kit for $100, but unless I can find a cheaper manufacturer or compromise on the quality (which I'm not willing to do), or cut down the number of parts (maybe a partial kit just for the difficult bushings) the price isn't going to get any lower.

DamonB

Yeah, I think no matter what route people take to install new bushings if they do it themselves they will come out ahead. I can't imagine what the average cost is to have your entire bushing kit installed at a shop. I would imagine it would have to be quite more than the cost of the bushings themselves.

artowar

iTrader: (1)

Brazil nuts

I'd like to save money with more buyers, but I'll still go in even if there are only a few of us.

Also, I have one idea to bump up the number of interested buyers. Would it be possible to also include some common sizes of pushers (?) and receivers to broaden the application beyond the FD? The kit would become larger, but if the pool of buyers also grows larger, perhaps the cost ends up lower per kit. The key would be to find an application that has a large pool of potential buyers (e.g., Civics), but not much difference in kit requirements.

israel

iTrader: (3)

i'd like a set, jim. i'd like to replace my bushings in the coming year and i agree about having the right tool for the job.

thanks for your work.

israel

damian

iTrader: (2)

I think there may be 3 of us over here that would go in on one kit.

travisorus rex

jimlab

Many things are possible with a $200 hydraulic press, $50 in steel bar stock, and an extensive socket selection...

jimlab

Well, speak of the devil...

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=406953