alignment cause bad handling?
12-22-10, 12:15 AM
#1
alignment cause bad handling?
Ok well i put new coilovers on my 89 TII and had an alignment done...they set the camber to -2.8 in the rear and -1 in the front...well the car dosent roll around corners but just seems real relunctant to turn around them...like i have to really force it to turn...would the alignment be the problem maybe??
thanx
thanx
12-22-10, 03:46 PM
#5
not sure on the toe...im going back to get another alignment next week and ill get the print out then...godspeed coilovers, running 235/45/17's tires...and ya i need to order rear camber adjusters its on my list...im gonna get the front camber set at about -2, and ill get another alignment when i get camber adjusters for the rear...i have free alignments for a year!!lol
12-22-10, 05:04 PM
#7
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You need to take your car to a shop that will set your alignment to the specs you give them - not some place that sets it to whatever they pull outta their.... book.
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12-22-10, 07:20 PM
#10
no its just like when i go to go around a corner it feels like i have to turn the steering when really hard to make it turn...like the car just wants to stay going straight and im forcing it to turn...no tire squealing...the back end isnt kicking out..no body roll or anything,other than what im describing it drives fine so i dont think anything is broken...it handled fine with the stock suspention and wheels and tires...
12-22-10, 07:38 PM
#12
well just checked my tire pressures and seems dicount tires set them all at 20psi front and rear??? dont kno why they would go so low but im thinking 32psi air pressure and more negative camber in the front would be a good start to solving my problems..
12-23-10, 06:51 PM
#13
12-23-10, 07:41 PM
#15
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first off, do read my stickied thread re setting up suspensions... it is FD oriented but will tell you everything you need to know if you spend the time to read it.
set your tire pressure at 30 front 27 rear. tire pressure is really important. set it cold (undriven).
the FC has a strut front so stock you can't change the camber... toe is really important. have it set at less than an 1/8th toe in front and rear.
you have just installed coil overs... you have a very different spring rate and shock valving... struts, unlike double A arms have deliver a wheel rate close to the spring rate... do you know what the spring rate is on your new coil overs? please post it.
shock settings are also important. set them 40% from full stiff in front and 20% in the rear.
that should do it.
howard
set your tire pressure at 30 front 27 rear. tire pressure is really important. set it cold (undriven).
the FC has a strut front so stock you can't change the camber... toe is really important. have it set at less than an 1/8th toe in front and rear.
you have just installed coil overs... you have a very different spring rate and shock valving... struts, unlike double A arms have deliver a wheel rate close to the spring rate... do you know what the spring rate is on your new coil overs? please post it.
shock settings are also important. set them 40% from full stiff in front and 20% in the rear.
that should do it.
howard
12-23-10, 08:21 PM
#16
thanx for the info...i have the shock setting(damper setting right?) set at 50% front and rear...the spring rates are 8kg front and 6kg rear...ill get right too setting the shock dampers and tire pressures...also i didnt do anything with the spring preload when i installed them on my car i just messured the spring height and adjusted the perches untill all four corners were the same...car rides pretty smooth but if i hit a big dip or bump real fast the tires rub the top of the wheel well so im guessing the springs dont have enough preload?? also what is your recommendation on camber and toe in the front and rear?, im going to get a realignment next week and im sure i need more than -1 in the front the rear is gonna have to stay at -2.8 untill i purchase a way to adjust it...is rear toe adjustable from factory??
thanx!!
thanx!!
12-23-10, 11:25 PM
#17
The car is probably too low and/or too soft. That is why the tires are rubbing. Adjusting the preload on the springs won't really help.
I have the same spring rates on my FC with 235/40/17 tires and it never rubs.
What are you doing with the car? If you aren't running the car on the track you only need -1 degree camber up front or less. In the rear you will want about -1 degree camber.
The rear won't be adjustable unless you have an adjustable sublink and/or individual adjusters like we recommended you purchase above.
There is not real point to go get it aligned again without the proper parts to adjust the car.
I have the same spring rates on my FC with 235/40/17 tires and it never rubs.
What are you doing with the car? If you aren't running the car on the track you only need -1 degree camber up front or less. In the rear you will want about -1 degree camber.
The rear won't be adjustable unless you have an adjustable sublink and/or individual adjusters like we recommended you purchase above.
There is not real point to go get it aligned again without the proper parts to adjust the car.
12-24-10, 05:26 PM
#18
i drive this car very little and when i do i like to push it alot...but as the suspension isnt set up correctly right now i cant fly around corners like i would like...ive had this car for over a year now and only put around 700 miles on it....
01-01-11, 03:10 PM
#21
Yeah, shutup kid.
If the wheel is physically hard to turn you might have too much front caster(or possible a worn steering rack or P/S pump). I'm a FB guy, not sure if it's even adjustable on the FC's. A lot of times alignment shops won't even check the caster since it's not adjustable on most cars. More caster is good to a point, it causes more camber roll in turns, but too much causes hard steering and a very harsh ride.
I disagree with Howard about the toe, nearly all race cars are toe'd out( - toe ) for better steering response at the cost of tire life, depending how far you toe out. I could be wrong and maybe FC's like toe in. All FWD cars have slightly + toe because driving forces move the toe to 0 or slightly -, RWD cars are usually set closer to 0 or slightly - in the front.
The camber setting shouldn't affect how the steering wheel feels, only how much grip you have in a turn. Ideally camber would be set to 0 and the suspension angles would move the camber enough to keep the tire flat on the ground in turns, since that's not the case we set camber - so as the body rolls the tire hopefully stays flat on the ground.
I disagree with Howard about the toe, nearly all race cars are toe'd out( - toe ) for better steering response at the cost of tire life, depending how far you toe out. I could be wrong and maybe FC's like toe in. All FWD cars have slightly + toe because driving forces move the toe to 0 or slightly -, RWD cars are usually set closer to 0 or slightly - in the front.
The camber setting shouldn't affect how the steering wheel feels, only how much grip you have in a turn. Ideally camber would be set to 0 and the suspension angles would move the camber enough to keep the tire flat on the ground in turns, since that's not the case we set camber - so as the body rolls the tire hopefully stays flat on the ground.
01-01-11, 04:49 PM
#23
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what kind of tires do you have? to make it simple the tires dictate how much grip you have, and grip = the amount of g force you can pull in a turn, which = body roll.
so for example, the stock bridgestone re71's that came on the car, deliver x amount of grip, and the suspension was tuned to give a certain amount of body roll with those tires.
if you put say hoosier slicks on it, and its now X3 grip, then the car will roll way more in a turn and the door handles scrape the ground.
so we run stiffer springs.
we also want, as coldy says, the suspension to plant the tire correctly on the ground. so we change the alignment specs on the car too.
the stock settings have to fit ANYONE, so they are biased to be stable, and understeer.
since the FC has been around so long, we can give out some good starter specs. they do depend on the use of the car a little though
front toe: if you're on the highway a lot, run a little toe in, like 1/8", zero toe is better, but less stable, toe out is less stable but works better on the track.
camber; you want about -1 in the front, the more hard turns you make, the more camber you want.
caster; might be fixed depending on the camber plate, but more caster will raise the steering effort, but it will center the wheel better too.
rear toe; i found the rear toe to matter a lot in the way the car feels. basically more toe = more stable, but less responsive. i like about 1/8" toe in. zero toe was better, but it liked you to be on the gas in the turn, and on the street you can't do that because you're always stuck behind a toyota...
rear camber. unlike the front the rear adds negative camber as it compresses, so you want to start with as little as you can get, but in the real world you're doing ok with about -1.5, which is basically stock. lowering the car adds camber.
ride height; higher might be better, stock from the ground to the top of the wheel arch is 26.5" F and about 27.5" R, so a good height is around 25.5" F and maybe 26 in the rear.
shocks; play with it, harder = worse ride, slower response. softer = better ride, faster response.
preload; ive never played with this, but i don't think you want any
so for example, the stock bridgestone re71's that came on the car, deliver x amount of grip, and the suspension was tuned to give a certain amount of body roll with those tires.
if you put say hoosier slicks on it, and its now X3 grip, then the car will roll way more in a turn and the door handles scrape the ground.
so we run stiffer springs.
we also want, as coldy says, the suspension to plant the tire correctly on the ground. so we change the alignment specs on the car too.
the stock settings have to fit ANYONE, so they are biased to be stable, and understeer.
since the FC has been around so long, we can give out some good starter specs. they do depend on the use of the car a little though
front toe: if you're on the highway a lot, run a little toe in, like 1/8", zero toe is better, but less stable, toe out is less stable but works better on the track.
camber; you want about -1 in the front, the more hard turns you make, the more camber you want.
caster; might be fixed depending on the camber plate, but more caster will raise the steering effort, but it will center the wheel better too.
rear toe; i found the rear toe to matter a lot in the way the car feels. basically more toe = more stable, but less responsive. i like about 1/8" toe in. zero toe was better, but it liked you to be on the gas in the turn, and on the street you can't do that because you're always stuck behind a toyota...
rear camber. unlike the front the rear adds negative camber as it compresses, so you want to start with as little as you can get, but in the real world you're doing ok with about -1.5, which is basically stock. lowering the car adds camber.
ride height; higher might be better, stock from the ground to the top of the wheel arch is 26.5" F and about 27.5" R, so a good height is around 25.5" F and maybe 26 in the rear.
shocks; play with it, harder = worse ride, slower response. softer = better ride, faster response.
preload; ive never played with this, but i don't think you want any
01-01-11, 06:30 PM
#24
well...the car tracks alot?? i think thats how to explain it...if im driving straight its horrible about following the lines and dips in the road, to the point where it trys to take you off the road alot....im not losing grip in the corners, the car just feels un willing to go aggresively around a corner.... my car only has 97k original miles and the suspension is tight...the car handled great with stock everything...now i have new wheels and coilovers and took the p/s of the car and it got alot worse