13" AP racing brakes....no rears?!
02-14-03, 07:03 PM
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 355
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Spirit R v. Type RZ brakes
Originally posted by jimlab
...The '02 rotors are even larger than the rotors used by the '99+ RS/RZ, I believe, which are larger than stock. More swept area, at the very least, and I'm trying to find out more details on the piston sizing, although they remain a single-piston "floating" caliper design. They also come pre-coated in red, with cross-drilled rotors.
...Notice much difference in comparison to the diameter of the wheel? Neither do I. Mazda says that 17" rims are required, apparently.
I'm waiting on final pricing for just the components I need, although I was quoted $1,800 shipped for everything (calipers, rotors, pads, backing plates, etc.) by one Japanese vendor. A little steep, but without backing plates, and if I can find aftermarket pads, the price will be a bit better, although still more expensive than the '99+ RS/RZ components.
...The '02 rotors are even larger than the rotors used by the '99+ RS/RZ, I believe, which are larger than stock. More swept area, at the very least, and I'm trying to find out more details on the piston sizing, although they remain a single-piston "floating" caliper design. They also come pre-coated in red, with cross-drilled rotors.
...Notice much difference in comparison to the diameter of the wheel? Neither do I. Mazda says that 17" rims are required, apparently.I'm waiting on final pricing for just the components I need, although I was quoted $1,800 shipped for everything (calipers, rotors, pads, backing plates, etc.) by one Japanese vendor. A little steep, but without backing plates, and if I can find aftermarket pads, the price will be a bit better, although still more expensive than the '99+ RS/RZ components.
The only clear difference between the two types of new brakes is the purrrdy red hats and the drilled rotors (or are they cast?). Both are different from US spec brakes for amongst other reasons, the leading pistons in the front are larger than the trailing front pistons (ours are equal sizes but have the same volume) and the rotors are larger front and back.
Be sure to post if you find anything out.
Also, is that $1800 for just the rear Spirit R brakes? I think SleepR1 got the whole front/back Type RS setup for about that price.
02-14-03, 08:02 PM
#28
Super Snuggles
According to JT-Imports, the Spirit-R rear rotors are larger and require 17 inch wheels. The RS/RZ rotors can be run on cars with 16" wheels, AFAI.
If the only difference were some holes and a bit of red powdercoat, it certainly wouldn't justify the extra $800. Of course you could be right, and the extra cost may be solely attributable to relative rarity.
I haven't heard back with any further information. Jason (JT-Imports) had to dig to get what information he was able to give me, and had to translate it from Japanese as it was.
If the only difference were some holes and a bit of red powdercoat, it certainly wouldn't justify the extra $800. Of course you could be right, and the extra cost may be solely attributable to relative rarity.
I haven't heard back with any further information. Jason (JT-Imports) had to dig to get what information he was able to give me, and had to translate it from Japanese as it was.
02-15-03, 04:53 AM
#29
Rotary Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 971
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm starting to wonder how much or even if the AP big brake package is better than the M2 package. They charge $200 more for their kit, but I wonder why they would offer someone elses product if theirs is entirely better. They say on the site "this is hands-down-the-best".
The M2 rears ability to keep the parking brake is definately appealing. I wonder how they compare to the widefootracing unit in performance though (w/o the parking brake)...anyone have any comparable data between either the AP fronts and M2 fronts or the M2 rears and Widefootracing rears??? I guess I shouldn't set myself up for dissapointment as I doubt anyone does, but it's worth a shot I guess
P.S. I guess I can settle for opinions and speculation
(no offence ofcourse as this is all we can do w/o data!)
The M2 rears ability to keep the parking brake is definately appealing. I wonder how they compare to the widefootracing unit in performance though (w/o the parking brake)...anyone have any comparable data between either the AP fronts and M2 fronts or the M2 rears and Widefootracing rears??? I guess I shouldn't set myself up for dissapointment as I doubt anyone does, but it's worth a shot I guess
P.S. I guess I can settle for opinions and speculation
(no offence ofcourse as this is all we can do w/o data!)
Last edited by Chronos; 02-15-03 at 04:58 AM.
02-17-03, 04:29 PM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 355
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2002 RX7 brake options
Originally posted by jimlab
According to JT-Imports, the Spirit-R rear rotors are larger and require 17 inch wheels. The RS/RZ rotors can be run on cars with 16" wheels, AFAI.
If the only difference were some holes and a bit of red powdercoat, it certainly wouldn't justify the extra $800. Of course you could be right, and the extra cost may be solely attributable to relative rarity.
I haven't heard back with any further information. Jason (JT-Imports) had to dig to get what information he was able to give me, and had to translate it from Japanese as it was.
According to JT-Imports, the Spirit-R rear rotors are larger and require 17 inch wheels. The RS/RZ rotors can be run on cars with 16" wheels, AFAI.
If the only difference were some holes and a bit of red powdercoat, it certainly wouldn't justify the extra $800. Of course you could be right, and the extra cost may be solely attributable to relative rarity.
I haven't heard back with any further information. Jason (JT-Imports) had to dig to get what information he was able to give me, and had to translate it from Japanese as it was.
One for the base model (RB?) that worked with 16" wheels, and another for the RS/RZ (and Spirit R?) that only worked with 17" wheels. The question is then whether the Spirit R brake rotors are larger than the already larger Type RS/RZ units. SleepR1 could probably confirm that you need 17" wheels to clear his Type RS calipers.
So is it $800 more for the whole set of Spirit R brakes over the Type RZ's or was that just the rears? I think that any extra cost over a few hunderd bucks is, as you said, attributable to rarity. I'm guessing Mazda has the caliper supplier (Sumitomo) paint the calipers red, and the rotors are - probably - drilled by the same rotor supplier as the RZ units. Again, I'd love to be wrong, but I doubt they made a new cast for a few hundred Spirit R rotors just for the holes.
Seems like the smart move for us FD junkies would be to chose the Type RZ brakes, paint them yourselves, and have the discs slotted. You can use the extra money you saved to have them cadmium plated so they look nice
02-17-03, 06:41 PM
#31
Super Snuggles
Re: 2002 RX7 brake options
Originally posted by Coulthard Fan
So is it $800 more for the whole set of Spirit R brakes over the Type RZ's or was that just the rears? I think that any extra cost over a few hunderd bucks is, as you said, attributable to rarity. I'm guessing Mazda has the caliper supplier (Sumitomo) paint the calipers red, and the rotors are - probably - drilled by the same rotor supplier as the RZ units. Again, I'd love to be wrong, but I doubt they made a new cast for a few hundred Spirit R rotors just for the holes.
Seems like the smart move for us FD junkies would be to chose the Type RZ brakes, paint them yourselves, and have the discs slotted. You can use the extra money you saved to have them cadmium plated so they look nice
So is it $800 more for the whole set of Spirit R brakes over the Type RZ's or was that just the rears? I think that any extra cost over a few hunderd bucks is, as you said, attributable to rarity. I'm guessing Mazda has the caliper supplier (Sumitomo) paint the calipers red, and the rotors are - probably - drilled by the same rotor supplier as the RZ units. Again, I'd love to be wrong, but I doubt they made a new cast for a few hundred Spirit R rotors just for the holes.
Seems like the smart move for us FD junkies would be to chose the Type RZ brakes, paint them yourselves, and have the discs slotted. You can use the extra money you saved to have them cadmium plated so they look nice
That price is for the rear brakes only. I'm still waiting to find out exact specs on the Spirit-R configuration.
02-17-03, 10:52 PM
#34
I thought I posted this before, but it disappeared or something...
Define "best". There are too many definitions to be able to say one kit is the best, or even better than another without qualifications. One thing the AP kit really has going for it is that it is light -- 2 lbs less than the stock front brakes per side. I don't know of any others that are that light. The M2 (non-AP, non-Wilwood) fronts have larger rotors, though.
The M2 rear rotors are quite a bit larger than the RZ/Widefoot/Wilwood setup (13" versus 12.2" dia, width?), so I would guess that you get more brake torque from them. The calipers are probably stiffer than the NDLs and probably have more piston area as well. But the total rear kit probably weighs more, too.
-Max
Define "best". There are too many definitions to be able to say one kit is the best, or even better than another without qualifications. One thing the AP kit really has going for it is that it is light -- 2 lbs less than the stock front brakes per side. I don't know of any others that are that light. The M2 (non-AP, non-Wilwood) fronts have larger rotors, though.
The M2 rear rotors are quite a bit larger than the RZ/Widefoot/Wilwood setup (13" versus 12.2" dia, width?), so I would guess that you get more brake torque from them. The calipers are probably stiffer than the NDLs and probably have more piston area as well. But the total rear kit probably weighs more, too.
-Max
02-18-03, 01:04 AM
#35
Rotary Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 971
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The AP kit comes with 14" rotors as well as the 13's, so if they're lighter weight and have bigger rotors I guess that puts them ahead of the m2's...
As for the rears, I really can't say what would be best, I'm not sure which is better: lightweight or increased stopping power? Is making your own AP kit with some lightweight 13" rotors out of the question? Having AP's on all 4 points with lightweight 14's up front and 13's in the back sure would be nice!
As for the rears, I really can't say what would be best, I'm not sure which is better: lightweight or increased stopping power? Is making your own AP kit with some lightweight 13" rotors out of the question? Having AP's on all 4 points with lightweight 14's up front and 13's in the back sure would be nice!
02-18-03, 03:00 AM
#36
The AP kit that M2 sells with 13" rotors is 2lbs lighter than stock per side up front. I doubt it would be lighter than stock with 14" rotors. The AP calipers are particularly light, so they seem to be a good option. There have been some complaints about boiling fluid with the aluminum pistons they come with. Essex can replace the pistons with SS, but it adds considerably ($600?) to the already high price. Ceramic plates behind the pads or something might also be a solution if this proves to be a problem for a particular application. There was a group buy a while back for the pistons, so I had mine done, perhaps prematurely as I had not really had a chance to push them before the change to see how they worked. For all I know, the aluminum pistons might have been fine for my usage.
Even the stock brakes (perhaps with the balance adjusted) can lock all four wheels on most FDs, so I would imagine any 4 wheel upgrade could do the same. The advantage of going larger would be more fade resistance rather than first-stop stopping power.
I like my N-Tech 13" AP fronts with SS pistons from Essex and RZ/Widefoot/Wilwood/Essex rears. They are a few pounds lighter than stock at all four corners. The rears could be made even lighter with some 2-piece rotors. I haven't been to the track yet, but I expect that it will perform well and offer good fade resistance based on the experiences of others. It would be nice to have AP calipers at both ends, but the rear setup was a good deal as I got it, so I can live with the mismatch. It would be nice to have a parking brake, too, but it will add some weight to the rear.
The M2 four wheel kit has even bigger rotors front and rear, and I suspect the rear calipers are stiffer than the Wilwoods (for better pedal feel, etc.). It seems like a solid offering for a four wheel setup. I am sure it is heavier, but it probably also has more fade resistance.
What choice you make is a personal decision based on your individual needs, values, and budget. The full Mazda RZ setup is a great deal and would probably meet the needs of most users. That might be the "right" choice for many buyers.
-Max
Even the stock brakes (perhaps with the balance adjusted) can lock all four wheels on most FDs, so I would imagine any 4 wheel upgrade could do the same. The advantage of going larger would be more fade resistance rather than first-stop stopping power.
I like my N-Tech 13" AP fronts with SS pistons from Essex and RZ/Widefoot/Wilwood/Essex rears. They are a few pounds lighter than stock at all four corners. The rears could be made even lighter with some 2-piece rotors. I haven't been to the track yet, but I expect that it will perform well and offer good fade resistance based on the experiences of others. It would be nice to have AP calipers at both ends, but the rear setup was a good deal as I got it, so I can live with the mismatch. It would be nice to have a parking brake, too, but it will add some weight to the rear.
The M2 four wheel kit has even bigger rotors front and rear, and I suspect the rear calipers are stiffer than the Wilwoods (for better pedal feel, etc.). It seems like a solid offering for a four wheel setup. I am sure it is heavier, but it probably also has more fade resistance.
What choice you make is a personal decision based on your individual needs, values, and budget. The full Mazda RZ setup is a great deal and would probably meet the needs of most users. That might be the "right" choice for many buyers.
-Max
Last edited by maxcooper; 02-18-03 at 03:05 AM.
02-19-03, 11:07 AM
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 355
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Chronos
Boooooo!!! Let's get around to answering Chronos' question! 
Boooooo!!! Let's get around to answering Chronos' question!
I was only trying to help distinguish the differences between the available OEM Mazda braking systems, the Type RZ vs. Spirit R. I'll post further thoughts on that to my old thread. Your prior questions related to the 99 RX7 brakes were:
Originally posted by Chronos
I have heard that 99specs are the best addition to the 13" AP racing fronts but I don't know if that would really be the best answer for my performance goals... I'd consider JGTC 500 to be around the performance I'm looking for... do you think (or know) that the stocks or even 99specs would really hold up under such hard use?
I have heard that 99specs are the best addition to the 13" AP racing fronts but I don't know if that would really be the best answer for my performance goals... I'd consider JGTC 500 to be around the performance I'm looking for... do you think (or know) that the stocks or even 99specs would really hold up under such hard use?
Scott
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
