rexset

Please post , if you have restrictor in your single turbo or not
Please specify the size.

bcty

i believe it verys on each turbo
its you dont have one your turbo will puke oil and smoke like a bitch.

BDC

Not necessarily. I'm not sure where you've gotten this. We don't run restrictors on ours over here. Granted, we're only running 85psi of oil pressure tops and not 105-110psi like some of the FD guys ...

B

APEXL8T

BDC I just finished my -4 oil line .TO4R(standerd Garret) and orderd the restictor from ATP.I have a -10 return.The Pheonix Turbo folks said to use a restrictor. Just dont know.

IRPerformance

iTrader: (41)

I'd start out with no restrictor first. If it smokes, then put one in and gradually go smaller untill the smoking stops.

kenn_chan

restrictor required varies with the turbine, be careful with this approach, one of the members fired a turbo trying this method, I think it was Carl ????? can't remember last name but he road races a lot IIRC

ken

jasrx

i am running a t04e/66 and i dont use any oil restrictors , and iv never had any trouble with it smoking .

hotrodrx7

I thought the same thing when I got my GT28r kit. It has tiny restrictors and when I asked the fabricator (John Pham) he said the turbos would smoke like crazy without them. Only about 100 miles but so far so good with the restrictors in place.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

i run T3/TO4 hybrids and do know what works and what doesn't work from experience.
a .03 doesn't work. french fried turbo bearings in 140 miles.
a .09 works. ( fd)

howard coleman

kenn_chan

Sorry Howard it was your posts I had read not Carls

Kenn

CrackHeadMel

iTrader: (2)

I run a .6, however its in a 13b-re, which has a higher oil pressure i belive

twokrx7

iTrader: (1)

With my innovative T66 ball brg turbo they recommended a restrictor, call your turbo oem or supplier for a recommendation. I ran for quite awhile with the restrictor, worked great.

SPOautos

Turbo manufactorers have a spec for what size oil restrictor to run if its needed. I wouldnt go outside of thier guidline. If your having smoke problems start by checking your feed and drain setup. Running a -4 feed with a -10 or -12 drain is a good suggestion. If you have that then move on to crank case vent, make sure you have pleanty of crank case vent. You might try venting both nipples on the oil filler neck instead of just one like most people do. Run them to the intake but use a catch can between the filler neck and the intake so you dont get oil residue in the intake. If you have all of that done properly then look at running a oil restrictor thats within the size that the manufacturer suggests.

If your problem is really inproper feed, drain, crank case and you keep restricting and restrictive till the smoke stops then your going to over compensate and kill your turbo. You need to make sure everything else is done right and in order before you start choking off the oil supply.

Stephen

twokrx7

iTrader: (1)

I second everything SPOautos said.

On my T66 setup I ran a -8 crankcase vent line from the oil fill cap to a catch can then vented the catch can to my turbo inlet filter. Never had any smoking issues with the T66. Also ran a -12 drain.

Had issues before the T66, ran a SR stage II turbo and blew out the oil seals twice due to the -6 oil feed line and -8 drain that SR supplied, no restrictor. Learned the hard way. I suggest nothing bigger than a -4 feed, -3 is better, use a restrictor for the -4, go min -10 on the drain, and vent the crankcase properly.

APEXL8T

I have the twokrx7 setup except no restrictor and have the Gotham catch can.

mark57

T66 / -4 feed / -12 drain return / crankcase vented / no restrictor. Steve Kan told me not to use restrictor; it would be bad for my turbo.

Carl Byck

I just blew aPT67 no restrictor, about ten dyno pulls. Smoked from the start, assumed assembly lube. on the third power pull the oil seals let go on the turbo.
-4 feed
-10 vertical out
mobil 1
114 octane
160 degree oil temps at the filter
10.1 afr
vented to catch can, no oil in the can ( we never pulled past ~6500 rpm due to it being base line tuning)
Sucks, we'll see if they will warranty it. I bought it from a good dealer, so should be OK. However I miss Mazfest '05

Previously I had a garrett TO4B water cooled. It came on my car with a ~.1 restrictor, always ran great. I will ask PT specifically, as I noticed ATP has added restrictors to their website for all Garrett turbos. They have one for journal bearing, and one for DBB. I think that we will eventually here that all internally restricted turbos need an additional restrictor over a certain PSI of oil pressure. It would be nice to have this as published fact from the manufacturers though. I am not sure what my pressures were, but they were around 80 psi I imagine. Carl

pistonsuk

60-1/T4 13BT w/ oil pressure mods

OP: 110psi cold, 70psi hot, 40psi min

4A/N feed 1/2inch drain

NO restrictor, no noticeable oil burn... go figure

justin

Carl Byck

This just in, we finally have an answer, sort of... to quote from my other thread;

"Spoke to Precision, they will honor the warranty, stated "no problem" I also had a conversation about restrictors with them, VERY INTERESTING. I will start a new thread, but in a nutshell, anyone with 50 weight oil, and or over 80 psi of oil pressure has a time bomb with Garrett JOURNAL bearing turbos. DBB REQUIRE per Precision AND ATP a ~.035-.040 restrictor, or risk blowing the seals. For a journal bearing turbo, both recomend .08-.1" restrictor above 80 psi of oil pressure(nearly all FCs, and FDs). I told them I was usig Mobil 1 20-50wt, and they stated that the 50wt would be a problem in Dino oil, but probably not synthetic. Either way, The two of the largest Garrett distributors are NOW recomending restrictors.

Before anyone jumps up and says" but they are restricted internally", that is precisely why the restrictor is required, otherwise, you blow out the internal restrictor, and then the oil seals. SO, that means most of us running un-restricted are playing with fire. I had one on my old Garrett TO4B from 10 years ago, and it came with a restrictor on the turbo, approx. .1" dia. I will do some more calling, but for now, Precision says to call them with your specific pressures, oil weight etc. they, and ATP stated a -4 feed, and a -10 drain. Note that they also stated the -3 lines now being sold (on Ebay, and by ATP) are still too large to permit use w/out a restrictor.
Where was this info the last two years while I was researching turbos? I do not know, but there is alot of mis-information out there for sure. Good thing is Precision was very firm in their statement that as long as the turbo did not show signs of abuse they would warranty it. I will get all this confirmed with Garrett/Precision/ATP, and then get it stickied. i knopw we have all discussed oil pressures before, but rarely did we talk oil weight, or specific pressure ranges. I will be measuring my oil pressure at the turbo for set-up moving forward, and hopefullywill be able to post ideal rotary specific(FC, someone else will need to do FD) restrictor sizes. Of course if you have an FC race car, then you would use the FD spec restrictor. That's it for now, I guess i just lost the opportunity to tune my car for now, mazfest, and another ~500 in assorted expenditures related to getting the car tuned... BUT we finally have a better handle on the restrictor issue. I will cross post this to the existing restrictor thread. Carl"

Zero R

iTrader: (1)

Hello Carl, have them send you a cut open centre section, you will see chances are next to zero on blowing out the internal seal, it is a small steel insert that has a pin in it to hold it down in place. It could possibly/maybe lift up in which case the way it is in there the turbo would be done period. Now before you want to say "but your only Sean not Precision or ATP and they've never heard of you" I am not saying what they told you is wrong. Never have. I also have posted exactly what pressures are acceptable at the turbo.(2.11kg/sq cm minimum at peak torque speed was last I remember could be wrong here) These are straight from Garrett papers not the little booklet you get online.The same papers that would be sent to Precision and others telling them the specs to use as a guidline I have gone over this a bunch of times with different Master distributers running 45-70psi of boost on serious race apps. If your question is " Is 80psi too much pressure?" I would say I haven't had one of the tons I've sold fail. Be it 30/35/40/42Rs. Would it hurt you to restrict it? No. I certainly wouldn't go smaller than .040. The original reason this whole restrictor issue started was because some were saying "my car smokes on decel" That is not a restrictor issue. That is the point I have always made.

Zero R

iTrader: (1)

Hello Carl, have them send you a cut open centre section, you will see chances are next to zero on blowing out the internal seal, it is a small steel insert that has a pin in it to hold it down in place. It could possibly/maybe lift up in which case the way it is in there the turbo would be done period. Now before you want to say "but your only Sean not Precision or ATP and they've never heard of you" I am not saying what they told you is wrong. Never have. I also have posted exactly what pressures are acceptable at the turbo.(2.11kg/sq cm minimum at peak torque speed was last I remember could be wrong here) These are straight from Garrett papers not the little booklet you get online.The same papers that would be sent to Precision and others telling them the specs to use as a guidline I have gone over this a bunch of times with different Master distributers running 45-70psi of boost on serious race apps. If your question is " Is 80psi too much pressure?" I would say I haven't had one of the tons I've sold fail. Be it 30/35/40/42Rs. Would it hurt you to restrict it? No. I certainly wouldn't go smaller than .040. The original reason this whole restrictor issue started was because some were saying "my car smokes on decel" That is not a restrictor issue. That is the point I have always made.

Carl Byck

I knew you would chime in on this , I know your position. Since you have access to the tech papers, can you convert the numbers in the manual into peak psi at the inlet for us. I will measure the pressure post restrictor when I get the turbo back) Is the number you mention for journal, or BB (BB I assume)? I am talking mainly about Journal bearing. In the case of a Journal bearing, Precision recomended a ~.08, ATP does not state the size of the hole in theirs (they refer to the internal restrictor size of .06), but when I called them they agreed with Precision.
All I know is with 20-50 mobil 1 and stock FC oil pressure at ~6000 rpm a brand new turbo blew its oil seal. When I called the company that built it they stated they would warrant it, but that the oil pressure was the likely culprit. Sean, in your experience, how long does a new turbo smoke(lightly) after start-up? I have never said "you're just Sean", I respect your experience, but I have to also deal with my personal experience LOL. I also thought it was noteworthy that my prior turbo was externally restricted. You have had alot of success, no one is challenging that. I just think it would be a valuable addition to the forum if we can get the allowable pressure range from Garrett posted for both CHRA's, and then let each indivual decide for themselves what to do. How does pressure at the filter correlate to pressure at the turbo? Are they close? What are the peak hot oil pressures you see on stock FCs, and stock FDs? So we are clear to all, nobody is saying to restrict a Journal bearing down to .04. Just trying to build it right, and sharing my experiences is all I am doing. I look forward to anything else you would like to add. If you already posted the DBB info, I can just follow a link, but I think we'd all appreciate your further input on this, particularly since you have data we do not have access to. Thanks, Carl

SPOautos

I believe those are just the standard Garrett specs for restricting the turbo if it needs it. Peronally I've known MANY people run 50 wieght with no restrictor on a Garrett turbo and never have a problem. Maybe I'll ask Bryan over a BNR and see what he thinks about blowing the internal restrictor out. He rebuilds Garrett turbos day in and day out for years now.....he should definatly know lol

Stephen

Carl Byck

I may have mis-spoken about "blowing the restrictor out", that was my interpertation of Precisions statement, that Internally restricted turbos ought to have an external restrictor at over 80 psi.

I don't want that fact to get lost if the internal restrictor is not the part that fails.

I think it is clear that many people have experienced oil seal failures early on, the question is why, and I have posted what I was told as to why. I will be more clear as to what are statements by the distributers vs interpertations by myself or others, sorry or the confusion. I did say I would confirm all of this with everyone before posting its own thread. Sean, I saw a cut away at JGTC, at the Garrett booth, there was no pin holding the restrictor in place on the cut away I saw. In fact, I posted similar info to this right after I saw the cut away back in December. I wonder if the restrictor is retained in a different fashion from turbo to turbo, or at a minimum from DBB, to journal? Thanks, Carl

KaiFD3S

iTrader: (37)

I dont have an oil restrictor on my TO4R, and my car does not smoke at all...