What Was Your External WG Life
05-13-20, 09:22 PM
#1
Eye In The Sky
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What Was Your External WG Life
My Tial F46 WG has 15 years of use.
Resumed some high boost tuning today as winter has past. First thing I noticed was that boost had increase by 1+ psi.
So I tested my lowest setting of 12 psi and it also was high by 1+ psi.
I had tuned the complete boost map last December (fall in Houston) because I installed all new larger injectors, rails, and fuel supply setup.
My Tial F46 WG has .7 bar/10.15 psi spring set because I originally ran a 2 bar map sensor with smaller injectors back in 2005.
That 10.5 psi WG spring set normally would give about 11+ psi boost off the springs alone (no WG control).
Just ran two boost tests. One with EBC control for 12 psi, and one without EBC control.
Both tests were almost identical with the same 13+ psi boost result and same boost buildup curve.
It appears that my WG diaphragm or "O ring" or valve is leaking?
What are your experiences?
Resumed some high boost tuning today as winter has past. First thing I noticed was that boost had increase by 1+ psi.
So I tested my lowest setting of 12 psi and it also was high by 1+ psi.
I had tuned the complete boost map last December (fall in Houston) because I installed all new larger injectors, rails, and fuel supply setup.
My Tial F46 WG has .7 bar/10.15 psi spring set because I originally ran a 2 bar map sensor with smaller injectors back in 2005.
That 10.5 psi WG spring set normally would give about 11+ psi boost off the springs alone (no WG control).
Just ran two boost tests. One with EBC control for 12 psi, and one without EBC control.
Both tests were almost identical with the same 13+ psi boost result and same boost buildup curve.
It appears that my WG diaphragm or "O ring" or valve is leaking?
What are your experiences?
05-14-20, 11:15 AM
#2
Senior Member
A small leak would certainly result in the boost being higher than expected. I would inspect all the hoses, and connections first.
A problem with the boost control solenoid could also cause this. So If you don't find any external leaks, bypass the solenoid by running a hose directly from the pressure source to the wastegate. If it still over-boosts, you'll need to take the wastegate apart for inspection. Obviously, a perforation in the diaphragm could be a culprit, but a set screw may also have backed out.
A problem with the boost control solenoid could also cause this. So If you don't find any external leaks, bypass the solenoid by running a hose directly from the pressure source to the wastegate. If it still over-boosts, you'll need to take the wastegate apart for inspection. Obviously, a perforation in the diaphragm could be a culprit, but a set screw may also have backed out.
05-14-20, 03:23 PM
#3
Eye In The Sky
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Re-tested the WG with the EBC turned off today. I messed up yesterday because today it actually ran in the low 10s with the .7bar springs.
I had to reduce the ebc boost control values since initially tuning last December as boost has increased since last year due to maybe ageing of the E-Boost equipment.
The E-Boost Sreet 40 psi EBC can not control spiking well when running above 14 psi with a single Tial F46 WG.
My old Blitz DSBC could control boost well but it died after 20 years of use last year.
I had to reduce the ebc boost control values since initially tuning last December as boost has increased since last year due to maybe ageing of the E-Boost equipment.
The E-Boost Sreet 40 psi EBC can not control spiking well when running above 14 psi with a single Tial F46 WG.
My old Blitz DSBC could control boost well but it died after 20 years of use last year.
05-18-20, 08:37 AM
#4
Rotary Freak
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It may not be an issue with the diaphragm. My single Tial gate on my old setup showed valve seat/bushing wear, and was also evident on the shaft of the valve itself. The wear seemed to cause binding and inconsistent boost control and intermittent spikes. I would suggest taking the WG off and doing some investigation.
05-19-20, 08:25 PM
#7
HKS GT 60mm 2003 to 2014 (11 years) but only ~40,000miles.
Daily for a couple years then mostly just racing. No issues.
Head was positioned behind the turbo and low/upside down for under car airflow though (where HKS also places turbo on their kits).
Daily for a couple years then mostly just racing. No issues.
Head was positioned behind the turbo and low/upside down for under car airflow though (where HKS also places turbo on their kits).
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06-09-20, 05:14 PM
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While out logging PFC injector setup changes Monday, I notice that once again my low boost was again 1 psi high. I had readjusted it during my last post about it.
Yesterday and today, I took out the Tial F-46 wg which was a bitch and required me having to buy another specialty tool.
Of course the wg is perfect! Not even any cracks in the diaphragm or scorching.
Turbo smarts solenoid must have a valve seat wear in problem or their controller is affected by the warmer air temps of summer, even with the AC on?
Yesterday and today, I took out the Tial F-46 wg which was a bitch and required me having to buy another specialty tool.
Of course the wg is perfect! Not even any cracks in the diaphragm or scorching.
Turbo smarts solenoid must have a valve seat wear in problem or their controller is affected by the warmer air temps of summer, even with the AC on?
06-09-20, 05:25 PM
#11
My issues in the past with external wg's and track use wasnt necessarily the wg lifespan rather the flange/vband kept warping. It created annoying exhaust leaks, unpredictable boost and the worst part was removing/reinstalling especially with a re-routed setup.
06-10-20, 09:20 AM
#12
Senior Member
While out logging PFC injector setup changes Monday, I notice that once again my low boost was again 1 psi high. I had readjusted it during my last post about it.
Yesterday and today, I took out the Tial F-46 wg which was a bitch and required me having to buy another specialty tool.
Of course the wg is perfect! Not even any cracks in the diaphragm or scorching.
Turbo smarts solenoid must have a valve seat wear in problem or their controller is affected by the warmer air temps of summer, even with the AC on?
Yesterday and today, I took out the Tial F-46 wg which was a bitch and required me having to buy another specialty tool.
Of course the wg is perfect! Not even any cracks in the diaphragm or scorching.
Turbo smarts solenoid must have a valve seat wear in problem or their controller is affected by the warmer air temps of summer, even with the AC on?
06-10-20, 11:09 PM
#15
Eye In The Sky
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No but is is only 6 months old.
I am planning a redo of the complete WG and its control with relocation of the solenoid to underneath the car with short hoses.
Even though the Tial F-46 looks good, it is 15 years old.
Might as well spend some of my stimulus money.
I am planning a redo of the complete WG and its control with relocation of the solenoid to underneath the car with short hoses.
Even though the Tial F-46 looks good, it is 15 years old.
Might as well spend some of my stimulus money.
06-11-20, 06:21 PM
#17
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Unless the Turbosmart is a piece of crap.
06-11-20, 09:24 PM
#18
A bit off topic now that the thread has progressed on, but i had turbosmart wastegates fail. Situation was: everything fine for quite a while, until it spent a day on the dyno where one of the two gates apparently wasnt getting air, over heated and diaphragm took a ****.
swapped it out, all good again for 1000's of km until next dyno sesh, and again, same gate.
Did get very hot though as evidenced by the black anodising fading to bright gold both times while the other gate stayed black and kept its diaphragm.
just thought id share.
swapped it out, all good again for 1000's of km until next dyno sesh, and again, same gate.
Did get very hot though as evidenced by the black anodising fading to bright gold both times while the other gate stayed black and kept its diaphragm.
just thought id share.
06-12-20, 08:39 AM
#19
Senior Member
A bit off topic now that the thread has progressed on, but i had turbosmart wastegates fail. Situation was: everything fine for quite a while, until it spent a day on the dyno where one of the two gates apparently wasnt getting air, over heated and diaphragm took a ****.
swapped it out, all good again for 1000's of km until next dyno sesh, and again, same gate.
Did get very hot though as evidenced by the black anodising fading to bright gold both times while the other gate stayed black and kept its diaphragm.
just thought id share.
swapped it out, all good again for 1000's of km until next dyno sesh, and again, same gate.
Did get very hot though as evidenced by the black anodising fading to bright gold both times while the other gate stayed black and kept its diaphragm.
just thought id share.
We talk about heat all the time, but sometimes it gets lost in the discussion. This is an excellent observation. Discoloration of the anodizing, being a clear indication of heat, and a correlation of a related failure.
I recently started a thread "Wastegate Problems", and because I didn't think it was pertinent, I did not mention that the Black anodize had faded to gold...
The fault there was that the set screws had backed out, resulting in a leak that prevented proper boost control. Maybe heat was the underlying condition that led to this problem.
And clearly heat can reduce the life of most any component.
06-12-20, 01:21 PM
#20
F'n Newbie...
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A bit off topic now that the thread has progressed on, but i had turbosmart wastegates fail. Situation was: everything fine for quite a while, until it spent a day on the dyno where one of the two gates apparently wasnt getting air, over heated and diaphragm took a ****.
swapped it out, all good again for 1000's of km until next dyno sesh, and again, same gate.
Did get very hot though as evidenced by the black anodising fading to bright gold both times while the other gate stayed black and kept its diaphragm.
just thought id share.
swapped it out, all good again for 1000's of km until next dyno sesh, and again, same gate.
Did get very hot though as evidenced by the black anodising fading to bright gold both times while the other gate stayed black and kept its diaphragm.
just thought id share.
I'd be curious how that particular WG was routed from the manifold and where it was located overall.
The shop currently building my FD are a Turbosmart dealer, and they made a point of keeping the WG's far enough away from both the turbine and the manifold piping to ensure they'd stay cool enough.
Last edited by fendamonky; 06-12-20 at 01:24 PM.
06-12-20, 03:34 PM
#21
^ Wow nice plumb back set up!
well, my car is a RHD fb so pretty busy that side of the engine bay ( also plumb back)
I did take pains to ensure both gates werent in direct path of radiant heat when i placed them on the manifold for fab as best i could.
and never any problem in actual driving. It just so happens one of the gates on my car must be sitting in stagnant air when on tge dyno with even the biggest fan in front of car.
on last dyno sesh i poonted a 2nd fan directly at the gates which seemed to work.
well, my car is a RHD fb so pretty busy that side of the engine bay ( also plumb back)
I did take pains to ensure both gates werent in direct path of radiant heat when i placed them on the manifold for fab as best i could.
and never any problem in actual driving. It just so happens one of the gates on my car must be sitting in stagnant air when on tge dyno with even the biggest fan in front of car.
on last dyno sesh i poonted a 2nd fan directly at the gates which seemed to work.
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06-12-20, 04:29 PM
#22
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Yeah, as you've identified it as a known problem on the dyno I'd try to construct some way to duct or redirect fresh airflow to that wastegate. The additional airflow should help simulate road conditions. Are your WGs water-cooled as well? That might also help.
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