What is max boost on pump gas..??
www.mancavecolorado.com
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,661
Likes: 1
From: Lakewood Colorado
Originally Posted by BDC
What's the altitude of Atlanta? I'm not sure but I'd suspect it's probably not very high up above sea level just from guessing. When I mentioned altitude, I spoke more on the lines of something like Denver/Colorado Springs, CO that see from 5200 to over 7000 depending on the area you're in. I've noticed that cars up there don't make squat for power compared to ours down here. I've also noticed that, because of the thinner air, they can run more boost on regular fuel and also run more spark advance.
B
B
Are you trying to say both myself and Marc "don't make squat for power"! Then why were you screaming like a bitch when we would get into 4th gear! LOL
Anyways....your final tune did the trick....I ran a 11.6 @ 118mph missing 3rd gear! Once I get the syncro fixed I'm sure a high 10 or low 11 will come! Thanks for all your help!
BDC Motorsports
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,667
Likes: 6
From: Grand Prairie, TX
Originally Posted by MichaelB145
Are you trying to say both myself and Marc "don't make squat for power"! Then why were you screaming like a bitch when we would get into 4th gear! LOL
Anyways....your final tune did the trick....I ran a 11.6 @ 118mph missing 3rd gear! Once I get the syncro fixed I'm sure a high 10 or low 11 will come! Thanks for all your help!
Anyways....your final tune did the trick....I ran a 11.6 @ 118mph missing 3rd gear! Once I get the syncro fixed I'm sure a high 10 or low 11 will come! Thanks for all your help!
We'll do more next time I 'm out there.
B
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 769
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From: orlando/st. petersburg
I have been to a few tuning sessions just to watch and hang out and 15psi is conservative and 17 is max I have seen on pump gas but if you dont have an ignition amp you will start to break up at those levels so ive seen. But like they said its relative to airflow.
Originally Posted by G's 3rd Gen
HAHA!
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,279
Likes: 728
From: Florence, Alabama
seven93,
let me bend this thread just a little...
you switched to a higher airflow higher/pressure ratio turbo that really likes to crank at high boost, you have a nice list of supportive options and you are asking a reasonable question.
the answer is you have 2 primary variables: boost and ignition timing. you can run lots more boost w retarded timing or V versa. there is only so much torque in a given grade (octane) of gas and you can wring it out w timing or boost or a bit of both.
and you get closer to the line to which BDC often refers... (disclosure, BDC did my ports).
i assume you have made these engineering efforts to make as much reliable power as possible. the only problem is..... the characteristics of the fuel we purchase at the pump.
you just need one more mod. then you can crank up the boost and advance your timing and even watch your egts drop...
methanol injection.
unlike racegas, you only use it under heavy boost. i run a 4 gallon fuel cell in my fd and it lasts for many tankfuls of gas. but when you need it, it is there.
enabling you to easily run 25 psi boost and advance your timing 3 degrees or more. it cools the motor and makes big power.
if you really want to do the research i suggest going to Turbobuick.com, go to the Alcohol, Nitrous and Propane Tech section. there are 64 pages of threads dating back to 2001. you'll go thru the entire learning process from water to alcohol. the typical 231 cu in stock block 2 valve pushrod buick makes over 650 rwhp on 93 octane and methanol and is streetable. the normal turbo'd buick starts to knock at 17 psi. pump/meth cars find virtually no knock at 25-27 psi.
good luck,
howard coleman
let me bend this thread just a little...
you switched to a higher airflow higher/pressure ratio turbo that really likes to crank at high boost, you have a nice list of supportive options and you are asking a reasonable question.
the answer is you have 2 primary variables: boost and ignition timing. you can run lots more boost w retarded timing or V versa. there is only so much torque in a given grade (octane) of gas and you can wring it out w timing or boost or a bit of both.
and you get closer to the line to which BDC often refers... (disclosure, BDC did my ports).
i assume you have made these engineering efforts to make as much reliable power as possible. the only problem is..... the characteristics of the fuel we purchase at the pump.
you just need one more mod. then you can crank up the boost and advance your timing and even watch your egts drop...
methanol injection.
unlike racegas, you only use it under heavy boost. i run a 4 gallon fuel cell in my fd and it lasts for many tankfuls of gas. but when you need it, it is there.
enabling you to easily run 25 psi boost and advance your timing 3 degrees or more. it cools the motor and makes big power.
if you really want to do the research i suggest going to Turbobuick.com, go to the Alcohol, Nitrous and Propane Tech section. there are 64 pages of threads dating back to 2001. you'll go thru the entire learning process from water to alcohol. the typical 231 cu in stock block 2 valve pushrod buick makes over 650 rwhp on 93 octane and methanol and is streetable. the normal turbo'd buick starts to knock at 17 psi. pump/meth cars find virtually no knock at 25-27 psi.
good luck,
howard coleman
Originally Posted by MichaelB145
Fastest FD i've seen and driven in so far..
What's the fastest FD you have seen or driven? 1/4 mile times?[/QUOTE]
Fastest "Street" FD i've seen and driven in would be a toss up between Jigsaw and rx794 and also Tony from T&R racing along with AnthonyNYC.
All the mentioned people above run 10s in the 1.4 mile. Jigsaw is in the 9s..
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 867
Likes: 0
From: Union, NJ
Originally Posted by MichaelB145
That seems impossible to run 10's on pump gas!
Did it on stock twins..............10.98@ 123mph on ET streets, pump gas (Sunoco 94) and NO race gas or alcohol injection.
Wih the single I ran 10.83 @ 128mph (dynoed 485 rwh then) on Nittos and pump gas.
With boost on the edge of pump gas I managed a best of 10.86 @ 130mph on Nittos Drags, Sunoco 94 and again no alcohol or race gas.
With the proper fuel system and tune it is very possible to reach those levels but most tuners will back it off to 15-17psi as the limit for obvious reasons.
Many variables come into play as well....turbo, intercooler, altitude, air temps....
By adding alcohol injection to pump gas our little engines should be able to tolerate 25psi and ~550rwh :-) but most choose alcohol injection as a safety blanket.
Hey Steve !
JD
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 383
Likes: 0
From: England
here in the UK im running 98 Octane which is the same as your 93 I believe.
Im planning to run 1.3 BAR on a T04R street Port (850 primaries,1680 secondaries)
I have WI and planning to run a 50:50 water Methonal MIx, is it safe to run at this boost level (can I run higher on this Mix)? and if tuning with the WI mix what sort of AFRs should I shot for?
Im planning to run 1.3 BAR on a T04R street Port (850 primaries,1680 secondaries)
I have WI and planning to run a 50:50 water Methonal MIx, is it safe to run at this boost level (can I run higher on this Mix)? and if tuning with the WI mix what sort of AFRs should I shot for?
Rotary Freak
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,926
Likes: 0
From: fort worth, tx, usa
Hey John!!
thanks for the details. What's new with you lately???
thanks for the details. What's new with you lately???
Originally Posted by Boostn7
Not impossible at all............
Did it on stock twins..............10.98@ 123mph on ET streets, pump gas (Sunoco 94) and NO race gas or alcohol injection.
Wih the single I ran 10.83 @ 128mph (dynoed 485 rwh then) on Nittos and pump gas.
With boost on the edge of pump gas I managed a best of 10.86 @ 130mph on Nittos Drags, Sunoco 94 and again no alcohol or race gas.
With the proper fuel system and tune it is very possible to reach those levels but most tuners will back it off to 15-17psi as the limit for obvious reasons.
Many variables come into play as well....turbo, intercooler, altitude, air temps....
By adding alcohol injection to pump gas our little engines should be able to tolerate 25psi and ~550rwh :-) but most choose alcohol injection as a safety blanket.
Hey Steve !
JD
Did it on stock twins..............10.98@ 123mph on ET streets, pump gas (Sunoco 94) and NO race gas or alcohol injection.
Wih the single I ran 10.83 @ 128mph (dynoed 485 rwh then) on Nittos and pump gas.
With boost on the edge of pump gas I managed a best of 10.86 @ 130mph on Nittos Drags, Sunoco 94 and again no alcohol or race gas.
With the proper fuel system and tune it is very possible to reach those levels but most tuners will back it off to 15-17psi as the limit for obvious reasons.
Many variables come into play as well....turbo, intercooler, altitude, air temps....
By adding alcohol injection to pump gas our little engines should be able to tolerate 25psi and ~550rwh :-) but most choose alcohol injection as a safety blanket.
Hey Steve !
JD
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 867
Likes: 0
From: Union, NJ
Originally Posted by pluto
Hey John!!
thanks for the details. What's new with you lately???
thanks for the details. What's new with you lately???
Hope to upgrade the fuel system soon and raising the boost and see what it runs on race gas, too bad it has no cage !!!
JD
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 383
Likes: 0
From: England
Originally Posted by blitzboy
here in the UK im running 98 Octane which is the same as your 93 I believe.
Im planning to run 1.3 BAR on a T04R street Port (850 primaries,1680 secondaries)
I have WI and planning to run a 50:50 water Methonal MIx, is it safe to run at this boost level (can I run higher on this Mix)? and if tuning with the WI mix what sort of AFRs should I shot for?
Im planning to run 1.3 BAR on a T04R street Port (850 primaries,1680 secondaries)
I have WI and planning to run a 50:50 water Methonal MIx, is it safe to run at this boost level (can I run higher on this Mix)? and if tuning with the WI mix what sort of AFRs should I shot for?
wow no reply to my post guys, guess its because im a newbie on the forum,I'll get my coat lol
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 867
Likes: 0
From: Union, NJ
Originally Posted by blitzboy
here in the UK im running 98 Octane which is the same as your 93 I believe.
Im planning to run 1.3 BAR on a T04R street Port (850 primaries,1680 secondaries)
I have WI and planning to run a 50:50 water Methonal MIx, is it safe to run at this boost level (can I run higher on this Mix)? and if tuning with the WI mix what sort of AFRs should I shot for?
Im planning to run 1.3 BAR on a T04R street Port (850 primaries,1680 secondaries)
I have WI and planning to run a 50:50 water Methonal MIx, is it safe to run at this boost level (can I run higher on this Mix)? and if tuning with the WI mix what sort of AFRs should I shot for?
Tune for low 11's A/F with the WI system and once tuned with it don't run without it(or run low). Alcohol does affect your A/Fs.
Good Luck,
JD
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,988
Likes: 0
From: Home of the 305 Boyz(miami)
Originally Posted by howard coleman
seven93,
let me bend this thread just a little...
you switched to a higher airflow higher/pressure ratio turbo that really likes to crank at high boost, you have a nice list of supportive options and you are asking a reasonable question.
the answer is you have 2 primary variables: boost and ignition timing. you can run lots more boost w retarded timing or V versa. there is only so much torque in a given grade (octane) of gas and you can wring it out w timing or boost or a bit of both.
and you get closer to the line to which BDC often refers... (disclosure, BDC did my ports).
i assume you have made these engineering efforts to make as much reliable power as possible. the only problem is..... the characteristics of the fuel we purchase at the pump.
you just need one more mod. then you can crank up the boost and advance your timing and even watch your egts drop...
methanol injection.
unlike racegas, you only use it under heavy boost. i run a 4 gallon fuel cell in my fd and it lasts for many tankfuls of gas. but when you need it, it is there.
enabling you to easily run 25 psi boost and advance your timing 3 degrees or more. it cools the motor and makes big power.
if you really want to do the research i suggest going to Turbobuick.com, go to the Alcohol, Nitrous and Propane Tech section. there are 64 pages of threads dating back to 2001. you'll go thru the entire learning process from water to alcohol. the typical 231 cu in stock block 2 valve pushrod buick makes over 650 rwhp on 93 octane and methanol and is streetable. the normal turbo'd buick starts to knock at 17 psi. pump/meth cars find virtually no knock at 25-27 psi.
good luck,
howard coleman
let me bend this thread just a little...
you switched to a higher airflow higher/pressure ratio turbo that really likes to crank at high boost, you have a nice list of supportive options and you are asking a reasonable question.
the answer is you have 2 primary variables: boost and ignition timing. you can run lots more boost w retarded timing or V versa. there is only so much torque in a given grade (octane) of gas and you can wring it out w timing or boost or a bit of both.
and you get closer to the line to which BDC often refers... (disclosure, BDC did my ports).
i assume you have made these engineering efforts to make as much reliable power as possible. the only problem is..... the characteristics of the fuel we purchase at the pump.
you just need one more mod. then you can crank up the boost and advance your timing and even watch your egts drop...
methanol injection.
unlike racegas, you only use it under heavy boost. i run a 4 gallon fuel cell in my fd and it lasts for many tankfuls of gas. but when you need it, it is there.
enabling you to easily run 25 psi boost and advance your timing 3 degrees or more. it cools the motor and makes big power.
if you really want to do the research i suggest going to Turbobuick.com, go to the Alcohol, Nitrous and Propane Tech section. there are 64 pages of threads dating back to 2001. you'll go thru the entire learning process from water to alcohol. the typical 231 cu in stock block 2 valve pushrod buick makes over 650 rwhp on 93 octane and methanol and is streetable. the normal turbo'd buick starts to knock at 17 psi. pump/meth cars find virtually no knock at 25-27 psi.
good luck,
howard coleman
i appreciate the info. as my motor died on me last year. i went through alot of procedures to know things i can do to the motor to keep it running at a high horsepower range. and all i got to say is do your research. dont try & go the cheap way or you will get cheap results!
BTW is there any problem with running straight methonal & not 50/50 water/methonal
Last edited by darkphantom; Jun 30, 2006 at 05:12 PM.
BDC Motorsports
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,667
Likes: 6
From: Grand Prairie, TX
Originally Posted by Boostn7
1.3 bar(~19psi) should be no problem with the 50:50 water/ methanol mix...even another 1-2 psi should be safe.
Tune for low 11's A/F with the WI system and once tuned with it don't run without it(or run low). Alcohol does affect your A/Fs.
Good Luck,
JD
Tune for low 11's A/F with the WI system and once tuned with it don't run without it(or run low). Alcohol does affect your A/Fs.
Good Luck,
JD
Btw, I believe straight methanol to be substantially more effective than a mix.
B
BDC Motorsports
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,667
Likes: 6
From: Grand Prairie, TX
Originally Posted by darkphantom
i appreciate the info. as my motor died on me last year. i went through alot of procedures to know things i can do to the motor to keep it running at a high horsepower range. and all i got to say is do your research. dont try & go the cheap way or you will get cheap results!
BTW is there any problem with running straight methonal & not 50/50 water/methonal
BTW is there any problem with running straight methonal & not 50/50 water/methonal
B
Cheers for the Info guys