Went single and lost horsepower
09-12-12, 10:21 PM
#101
rat ta tat tat
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: pinwheel galaxy
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ill def use your method next time i get the car on the dyno with a datalog. Thnx for the help!
It still leaves me wondering why im not making hp and dropping off so much in the upper bands. However. I seriously want to go check of someone shoved a potato in my exhaust.
It still leaves me wondering why im not making hp and dropping off so much in the upper bands. However. I seriously want to go check of someone shoved a potato in my exhaust.
With stock ports power will drop off at high Rpm. Plus when you had it on the dyno, did you still have the timming retarded?? I noticed you said you started to incress it, that should bring the power up some. Re dump the waste gate, see what happens?? I though people stuck banans in tailpipes.
Be careful with those stock seals on that original engine, get 12psi worked out then start turing it up.
Last edited by Knockers; 09-12-12 at 10:45 PM.
09-12-12, 10:49 PM
#102
rat ta tat tat
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: pinwheel galaxy
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here are some knockers for pig in a blanket...
Are you sure your throttle plates are opening all the way?? Be sure you secondary butterflys are going full open. Did you jam you wax rod open?? If you do this wrong it can keep your sec butterflies from going full open.
Are you sure your throttle plates are opening all the way?? Be sure you secondary butterflys are going full open. Did you jam you wax rod open?? If you do this wrong it can keep your sec butterflies from going full open.
Last edited by Knockers; 09-12-12 at 10:59 PM.
09-13-12, 12:03 PM
#103
it happens, sometimes when doing large adjustments the smoothing gets left out, even though it should be done. easier to get the rough adjustments down, save the map and take it home, smooth it out and load the finished product back in.
most rotary tuners have maps for just about any setup for a baseline to make the smoothing much better initially.
most rotary tuners have maps for just about any setup for a baseline to make the smoothing much better initially.
05-22-13, 07:15 PM
#104
Big update:
Have a new rebuilt motor with a large streetport and als seals. Same turbo TD61 15psi.
Finished tuning on a dyno jet and ended up with 360wp 294wtq. Not good.
~11afr adding/retarding didnt change the numbers much which is weird.
Have a new rebuilt motor with a large streetport and als seals. Same turbo TD61 15psi.
Finished tuning on a dyno jet and ended up with 360wp 294wtq. Not good.
~11afr adding/retarding didnt change the numbers much which is weird.
05-22-13, 09:52 PM
#109
My friend and I.
Tuning isnt rocket science especially with the PFC. My timing is pretty aggressive and my split is 11 at 15 psi. Afr's are good. I dont think tune is the issue. Ill still post my map for feedback.
Before I rebuilt the motor I had a really well known tuner squeeze 320whp with this setup at 15psi lol he said it was good!! I dont trust most tuners these days unfortunately good ones are hard to come by.
Tuning isnt rocket science especially with the PFC. My timing is pretty aggressive and my split is 11 at 15 psi. Afr's are good. I dont think tune is the issue. Ill still post my map for feedback.
Before I rebuilt the motor I had a really well known tuner squeeze 320whp with this setup at 15psi lol he said it was good!! I dont trust most tuners these days unfortunately good ones are hard to come by.
05-22-13, 10:16 PM
#110
Rotary Enthusiast
iTrader: (19)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1,169
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes
on
10 Posts
What exhaust cat back do you have?
What size intake filter is on the turbo? Surface area wise?
Open dump wastegate?
From a post of Howard Coleman
"there's something really wrong w building a great motor, adding lots of fuel, ignition, a 1000+ CFM turbo...
and then adding a filter that is restrictive and sucks in 180 degree air from the engine compartment.
or is it just me?
the K&N numbers, above, show an RD-1460 9" filter is needed for anything GT35R (897 CFM) or larger.
someone needs to start making a nice M2 like airbox that will fit the RD-1460 filter.
we need 100% outside air and we need the monster filter."
What size intake filter is on the turbo? Surface area wise?
Open dump wastegate?
From a post of Howard Coleman
"there's something really wrong w building a great motor, adding lots of fuel, ignition, a 1000+ CFM turbo...
and then adding a filter that is restrictive and sucks in 180 degree air from the engine compartment.
or is it just me?
the K&N numbers, above, show an RD-1460 9" filter is needed for anything GT35R (897 CFM) or larger.
someone needs to start making a nice M2 like airbox that will fit the RD-1460 filter.
we need 100% outside air and we need the monster filter."
05-23-13, 02:01 AM
#111
I have the Racing beat catback. 3.5DP 3inch midpipe. Exhaust is not an issue, plenty of people have exceeded 500whp with the RB catback. I know its not an issue.
I have done pulls on the dyno with and without my 5inch K&N filter. No change in HP. If you read about airflow dynamics and the characteristics you will see that surface area of the filter doesnt matter much to a certain point. The materior, shape is more important. Obviously if you have a 1inch filter it matters.
At this point, I can rule out the engine, fuel, ignition, exhaust, and intake air flow as a root cause of my low numbers. I have done a pressure check and it all is fine. What can be an issue is a restriction between the block and turbo. Maybe my 1.0 A/R housing is causing a restriction? Cast manifold? People have made good power on the xs/hks cast manifold from my research however.
I have done pulls on the dyno with and without my 5inch K&N filter. No change in HP. If you read about airflow dynamics and the characteristics you will see that surface area of the filter doesnt matter much to a certain point. The materior, shape is more important. Obviously if you have a 1inch filter it matters.
At this point, I can rule out the engine, fuel, ignition, exhaust, and intake air flow as a root cause of my low numbers. I have done a pressure check and it all is fine. What can be an issue is a restriction between the block and turbo. Maybe my 1.0 A/R housing is causing a restriction? Cast manifold? People have made good power on the xs/hks cast manifold from my research however.
What exhaust cat back do you have?
What size intake filter is on the turbo? Surface area wise?
Open dump wastegate?
From a post of Howard Coleman
"there's something really wrong w building a great motor, adding lots of fuel, ignition, a 1000+ CFM turbo...
and then adding a filter that is restrictive and sucks in 180 degree air from the engine compartment.
or is it just me?
the K&N numbers, above, show an RD-1460 9" filter is needed for anything GT35R (897 CFM) or larger.
someone needs to start making a nice M2 like airbox that will fit the RD-1460 filter.
we need 100% outside air and we need the monster filter."
What size intake filter is on the turbo? Surface area wise?
Open dump wastegate?
From a post of Howard Coleman
"there's something really wrong w building a great motor, adding lots of fuel, ignition, a 1000+ CFM turbo...
and then adding a filter that is restrictive and sucks in 180 degree air from the engine compartment.
or is it just me?
the K&N numbers, above, show an RD-1460 9" filter is needed for anything GT35R (897 CFM) or larger.
someone needs to start making a nice M2 like airbox that will fit the RD-1460 filter.
we need 100% outside air and we need the monster filter."
05-23-13, 08:14 AM
#112
Rotary Enthusiast
iTrader: (19)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1,169
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes
on
10 Posts
I have the Racing beat catback. 3.5DP 3inch midpipe. Exhaust is not an issue, plenty of people have exceeded 500whp with the RB catback. I know its not an issue.
I have done pulls on the dyno with and without my 5inch K&N filter. No change in HP. If you read about airflow dynamics and the characteristics you will see that surface area of the filter doesnt matter much to a certain point. The materior, shape is more important. Obviously if you have a 1inch filter it matters.
At this point, I can rule out the engine, fuel, ignition, exhaust, and intake air flow as a root cause of my low numbers. I have done a pressure check and it all is fine. What can be an issue is a restriction between the block and turbo. Maybe my 1.0 A/R housing is causing a restriction? Cast manifold? People have made good power on the xs/hks cast manifold from my research however.
I have done pulls on the dyno with and without my 5inch K&N filter. No change in HP. If you read about airflow dynamics and the characteristics you will see that surface area of the filter doesnt matter much to a certain point. The materior, shape is more important. Obviously if you have a 1inch filter it matters.
At this point, I can rule out the engine, fuel, ignition, exhaust, and intake air flow as a root cause of my low numbers. I have done a pressure check and it all is fine. What can be an issue is a restriction between the block and turbo. Maybe my 1.0 A/R housing is causing a restriction? Cast manifold? People have made good power on the xs/hks cast manifold from my research however.
I have read threads where the Racing beat catback actually chokes power a bit. You might be losing 20-30WHP from it.
I know theewird had a thread where we swapped a racing beat exhaust with an amuse R1 TI exhaust and left the boost controller at the same setting. He had to add 5% more fuel up top where the racing beat was restricting the flow.
Air filter size does matter and could effect spool. perhaps yours is large enough? I don't know.
Here is the thread about the exhaust.
https://www.rx7club.com/canadian-for...e-fuel-853587/
If you routed your wastegate back into your exhaust, it just makes matter worse as you need a higher flowing exhaust to support more air flow. an open dump wastegate obviously puts less strain on the exhaust system.
I have a GT3574R turbo with .84 turbine. I am not sure the WHP output, but the car doesn't choke up top. I have an open dump wastegate.
I am maxing at about 75% of Inj duty cycle at 17PSI (14PSI sea level, 5300CC fuel available), which I am using about 3,975CC of fuel at 11.0 AFR.
Just trying to help.
05-23-13, 12:28 PM
#113
I've pushed over 430rwhp with a A-Spec 500R turbo around the same psi with a racing beat cat back, magnaflow resonator, wastegate re-routed AND 3" exhaust piping on the same dyno. It's definitely not his exhaust. I'm sure the exhaust and re-routing does indeed cost some power, but it's definitely not going to be 60+ rwhp.
05-23-13, 12:32 PM
#114
I appreciate your help,
^ just saw this after I posted lol
That link was useful and I know see what your saying.
The exhaust def does choke a bit up top, but I dont think it will chop more than 5whp for a car at my level. Maybe I am wrong but for example, my friends FD which has very similar parts (1.06 500r, streetport, 3inch DP,exhaust, re-routed wastegate, RB catback) made around 415whp at 14-15psi. My friend tuned his car as well on the same dyno.
I'm just irritated about his hole thing not because I'm not making big #'s but because I built it and want it to be working the way it should be lol. Its like an itch inside my brain.
^ just saw this after I posted lol
That link was useful and I know see what your saying.
The exhaust def does choke a bit up top, but I dont think it will chop more than 5whp for a car at my level. Maybe I am wrong but for example, my friends FD which has very similar parts (1.06 500r, streetport, 3inch DP,exhaust, re-routed wastegate, RB catback) made around 415whp at 14-15psi. My friend tuned his car as well on the same dyno.
I'm just irritated about his hole thing not because I'm not making big #'s but because I built it and want it to be working the way it should be lol. Its like an itch inside my brain.
05-23-13, 01:48 PM
#115
Pull the catback off and try again. Do you have a log of your pull? What do you have in the midpipe? Have you confirmed its 3" all the way? Sometimes shops will reuse the old flanges which are 2.75". The Racing Beat catback is known to to burn out at high HP levels, a healthy catback will be more restrictive then a burnt out one.
thewird
thewird
05-23-13, 02:04 PM
#116
Rotary Enthusiast
iTrader: (19)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1,169
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes
on
10 Posts
I appreciate your help,
^ just saw this after I posted lol
That link was useful and I know see what your saying.
The exhaust def does choke a bit up top, but I dont think it will chop more than 5whp for a car at my level. Maybe I am wrong but for example, my friends FD which has very similar parts (1.06 500r, streetport, 3inch DP,exhaust, re-routed wastegate, RB catback) made around 415whp at 14-15psi. My friend tuned his car as well on the same dyno.
I'm just irritated about his hole thing not because I'm not making big #'s but because I built it and want it to be working the way it should be lol. Its like an itch inside my brain.
^ just saw this after I posted lol
That link was useful and I know see what your saying.
The exhaust def does choke a bit up top, but I dont think it will chop more than 5whp for a car at my level. Maybe I am wrong but for example, my friends FD which has very similar parts (1.06 500r, streetport, 3inch DP,exhaust, re-routed wastegate, RB catback) made around 415whp at 14-15psi. My friend tuned his car as well on the same dyno.
I'm just irritated about his hole thing not because I'm not making big #'s but because I built it and want it to be working the way it should be lol. Its like an itch inside my brain.
Well, let's take his example and say he added 5% more fuel.
for an arguments sake. if a car is using 2650CC of fuel (50% of 5300CC total), and one adds 5% fuel.
that leaves you at 2782.5CC or .525 or 52.5% of total fuel.
The WHP at 2650CC is 343WHP
the WHP at 2782.5CC is 360WHP.
Difference of 17WHP peak adding 5% fuel.
Perhaps the difference is greater for you?? Not sure if the wired had an open dump wastegate or rerouted one.
Anyway you could throw on a different exhaust system and test the theory? or take it off?
05-23-13, 07:46 PM
#118
Well, let's take his example and say he added 5% more fuel.
for an arguments sake. if a car is using 2650CC of fuel (50% of 5300CC total), and one adds 5% fuel.
that leaves you at 2782.5CC or .525 or 52.5% of total fuel.
The WHP at 2650CC is 343WHP
the WHP at 2782.5CC is 360WHP.
Difference of 17WHP peak adding 5% fuel.
Perhaps the difference is greater for you?? Not sure if the wired had an open dump wastegate or rerouted one.
Anyway you could throw on a different exhaust system and test the theory? or take it off?
for an arguments sake. if a car is using 2650CC of fuel (50% of 5300CC total), and one adds 5% fuel.
that leaves you at 2782.5CC or .525 or 52.5% of total fuel.
The WHP at 2650CC is 343WHP
the WHP at 2782.5CC is 360WHP.
Difference of 17WHP peak adding 5% fuel.
Perhaps the difference is greater for you?? Not sure if the wired had an open dump wastegate or rerouted one.
Anyway you could throw on a different exhaust system and test the theory? or take it off?
I could def try to throw on another catback and see what happens. I'd def be curious to see the change especially with the AFR's. If I need to add mroe fuel then my efficient is higher; thats what I want. But if you look at his thread you'll see that he added 5% of fuel at only one area of the RPM band. 1-2% was added mostly to accommodation the lower back-pressure.
So if the WHP at 2650CC is 343WHP the WHP at 2703CC is 350WHP = gain of ~7whp. Sounds about right to me.
Either way I am sure it will help to put a free flowing exhaust but my core issue is still not that.
I am focusing more on my turbo/manifold setup now. I know people have made good power on the cast manifolds but havnt found examples similar to mine. My TD61 feels great and a restriction in the compressor housing due to quality control is highly unlikely since its a housing made by garret.
As for EGT's. I am not monitoring them and wish I was. I dont know if its easy to weld a bung on the cast manifolds or not. Since I am starting to think my issue MIGHT be manifold related I am holding off on doing so.
Thewird,
I'm going to log my AFR's after putting on a different catback. I might just take off the muffler portion of the RB and see what happens. I wont be able to put on a dyno again but AFR % changes should tell me wats happening.
My midsection is a Borla style (Vibrant racing?) straight through resonator. It is for sure 3 inch as I bought it and had it installed. It is 3.5 to 3 inch all the way through. I wish it was as simple as having an exhaust restriction but dont think its the case here.
Appreciate all the comments BTW!
05-23-13, 08:59 PM
#120
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: aruba
Posts: 651
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
interesting thread, sub. I never liked the cast mani.
I might just take off the muffler portion of the RB and see what happens.
^^^ this and try removing the mid pipe and leave only the down pipe. yes I know loud but try it and see what happens.
I might just take off the muffler portion of the RB and see what happens.
^^^ this and try removing the mid pipe and leave only the down pipe. yes I know loud but try it and see what happens.
05-23-13, 10:28 PM
#123
86v8rx7, I appreciate it. If I decide to go ahead and pull off the manifold I'll take your offer.