Wastegate Runner Length
12-22-09, 09:55 PM
#28
Old [Sch|F]ool
It wouldn't cause whistling, it would damp out certain frequencies of resonance, which may or may not be beneficial for spool up. (I'm assuming that if the wastegate is shut, it's because the turbo isn't spooled YET)
Where did you get those hard fuellines from?
01-01-10, 07:47 PM
#36
I really appreciate this comment Brian.
From my understanding of what SPD told me, springs generally work fine for NA applications where only a regular merge collector is used and less heat is there. However, bolts help seal the DOUBLE merge collector used for turbo applications where there is obviously more pressure involved. Also, turbo applications' high heat weakens the springs and they will tend to loosen up/break making the merge collector not seal as well.
Maybe your right, but I wanted to try and balance the turbo's weight left to right and exhaust housing to compressor.
Maybe your right, but I wanted to try and balance the turbo's weight left to right and exhaust housing to compressor.
01-02-10, 07:41 AM
#40
"Elusive, not deceptive!”
limbar85, Beautiful welding and fabrication.
A couple of observations/questions.
Should you have installed the pipe's slip-joint in the opposite direction so it would also work as an anti-reversion devise?
And that idler pulley, what is it used for? It appears that you are going to turn your water pump backwards.
Again, nice work,
Barry
A couple of observations/questions.
Should you have installed the pipe's slip-joint in the opposite direction so it would also work as an anti-reversion devise?
And that idler pulley, what is it used for? It appears that you are going to turn your water pump backwards.
Again, nice work,
Barry
01-02-10, 10:03 AM
#41
The FD pump operates by turning backwards. Normally, FD owners delete the air pump so there is little belt contact left on the water pump allowing for slipping at high rpm's. Several solutions, some good, some bad. Many people just over tighten the alternator and put a lot of pressure on the stat bearings because it pulls up on the main hub - bad. Another option is to just buy over drive pulleys so there is more contact area on the water pump pulley - good and bad. Last and probably best option is to put a idler (mine is from Pineapple Racing) on there so there is roughly 50% contact on the pulley instead of say 10% without. There shouldn't be any slip or excessive load on any parts with this setup.
01-02-10, 02:16 PM
#42
"Elusive, not deceptive!”
I'm not sure exactly what you mean? But maybe you don't realize this is a double slip merge collector? Basically, there is a tube on the inside and a slip on the outside of the merge collector.
I didn't realize it had a second inner tube that was stepped the correct direction.
The FD pump operates by turning backwards. Normally, FD owners delete the air pump so there is little belt contact left on the water pump allowing for slipping at high rpm's. Several solutions, some good, some bad. Many people just over tighten the alternator and put a lot of pressure on the stat bearings because it pulls up on the main hub - bad. Another option is to just buy over drive pulleys so there is more contact area on the water pump pulley - good and bad. Last and probably best option is to put a idler (mine is from Pineapple Racing) on there so there is roughly 50% contact on the pulley instead of say 10% without. There shouldn't be any slip or excessive load on any parts with this setup.
I didn't realize it had a second inner tube that was stepped the correct direction.The FD pump operates by turning backwards. Normally, FD owners delete the air pump so there is little belt contact left on the water pump allowing for slipping at high rpm's. Several solutions, some good, some bad. Many people just over tighten the alternator and put a lot of pressure on the stat bearings because it pulls up on the main hub - bad. Another option is to just buy over drive pulleys so there is more contact area on the water pump pulley - good and bad. Last and probably best option is to put a idler (mine is from Pineapple Racing) on there so there is roughly 50% contact on the pulley instead of say 10% without. There shouldn't be any slip or excessive load on any parts with this setup.
I wanted to use the RE pump on mine because it has a better designed impeller, and was about to ask which water pump housing you were running.
I ended up using the Mazmart REW pump.
Again, nice work,
Barry
01-03-10, 09:07 AM
#45
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: なごや
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Looks good man,....but as far as response time....the longer your exhaust runners are the longer it'll take your exhaust gasses to hit the hot side correct? why not chop as much of the exhaust runners our to save on spool time? May not look as artsy..but i bet it'd spool much much faster.. I noticed an incredible difference when I went from my megan racing header to my custom equal length....pics below
Its always nice to see good fab work though.
01-03-10, 12:27 PM
#46
Correct. I've seen this tested on a REW in a superflow test cell. The longer the manifold the slower the response, also the power was down overall. In the end nothing could beat the HKS Vband manifold for response and power, its also the shortest.
Its always nice to see good fab work though.
Its always nice to see good fab work though.
I do understand where everyone is coming from though. One visual picture I heard one time is: say you have a long garden hose and you are pretending you're a fireman. You have the nozzle shooting full blast and you suddenly cut the water source. What happens? The water continues to flow out for a while because there is still flow/pressure. Now imagine if you have a 1 ft hose and do the same thing. Once the water source is cut, water flow out of the nozzle will just as fast stop.
01-03-10, 01:39 PM
#48
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: なごや
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Although I believe the test to be perfectly valid, I think there are too many variables to define that as an overall statement in all cases. There are many pro's and con's to runners being short and long. I do believe this manifold will still give me better response vs a short runner system. Many tuners on here will validate this through dyno experience. However, response isn't my only goal. I'm also shooting for balanced back pressure. Something closer to a 1:1 ratio will help my efficiency, lower egt's, response, etc.
I do understand where everyone is coming from though. One visual picture I heard one time is: say you have a long garden hose and you are pretending you're a fireman. You have the nozzle shooting full blast and you suddenly cut the water source. What happens? The water continues to flow out for a while because there is still flow/pressure. Now imagine if you have a 1 ft hose and do the same thing. Once the water source is cut, water flow out of the nozzle will just as fast stop.
I do understand where everyone is coming from though. One visual picture I heard one time is: say you have a long garden hose and you are pretending you're a fireman. You have the nozzle shooting full blast and you suddenly cut the water source. What happens? The water continues to flow out for a while because there is still flow/pressure. Now imagine if you have a 1 ft hose and do the same thing. Once the water source is cut, water flow out of the nozzle will just as fast stop.
In regard to the testing, it was done for a high profile track car, anything that could have produced any kind of performance edges was tested and tried. It was thought that the manifold was tunable to some degree as you think to achieve some scavenging and or ram effect, but the 13b with a turbine on it just didn't respond to it. Bigger/smaller tubing was tried, different flange collector lengths and on and on and on. Much piping was wasted to find out the best was a store bought out of the boxer, which was initially dismissed as just being the cheapest to produce. There is some tuning to be found in turbine headers, but it has more to do with bringing the pulses into phase on multi piston motors than adjusting length.
01-03-10, 03:13 PM
#49
But the the longer the hose, the more pressure drop there is, and the less overall flow, and that's what counts when you are pumping gases. Pressure drops is what kills performance and power.
In regard to the testing, it was done for a high profile track car, anything that could have produced any kind of performance edges was tested and tried. It was thought that the manifold was tunable to some degree as you think to achieve some scavenging and or ram effect, but the 13b with a turbine on it just didn't respond to it. Bigger/smaller tubing was tried, different flange collector lengths and on and on and on. Much piping was wasted to find out the best was a store bought out of the boxer, which was initially dismissed as just being the cheapest to produce. There is some tuning to be found in turbine headers, but it has more to do with bringing the pulses into phase on multi piston motors than adjusting length.
In regard to the testing, it was done for a high profile track car, anything that could have produced any kind of performance edges was tested and tried. It was thought that the manifold was tunable to some degree as you think to achieve some scavenging and or ram effect, but the 13b with a turbine on it just didn't respond to it. Bigger/smaller tubing was tried, different flange collector lengths and on and on and on. Much piping was wasted to find out the best was a store bought out of the boxer, which was initially dismissed as just being the cheapest to produce. There is some tuning to be found in turbine headers, but it has more to do with bringing the pulses into phase on multi piston motors than adjusting length.
