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UNDERRATED TECH: Journal Bearing

Old 04-16-15, 01:16 AM
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UNDERRATED TECH: Journal Bearing

hello there Gurus,

i am currently in the process of pulling out my engine and rebuilding it myself, it is currently all stock, and plan on upgrading to a Single Turbine, but due to my budget with needing to purchasing all the supporting mods to complete this task, i have come to the conclusion of going "Journal Bearing" because it is a Tried & True technology with regards to Make and Model.

I plan on Daily Driving my FD as well as hitting up a few AutoX/Drag/Drift events in the future. i want my FD to be between 380-420 WHP hopefully @ 15psi on pump gas.

i am currently stuck between 3 turbos: 2 traditional 60-1 and a Hybrid 65

1) Classic GARRETT 60-1 (T04S)



PRICE: $800.
- Wheel: 60-1
- Wheel Type: P Trim
- Compressor In /Out: 4" / 2.5"
- T4 Divided Housing A/R with 3" V-Band: .84, 1.00
or
- T4 Undivided Housing A/R with 3" V-Band: .96


2) TURBONETICS T4 60-1 TURBO .81



PRICE: $750
- COMPRESSOR COVER SIZE: 60 SERIES
- Compressor Intake/Outtake: 4" / 2.5"
- H-61 COMPRESSOR WHEEL
- COMPRESSOR WHEEL DIAMETER: 61.41 / 81.99 mm
- F-1 65 TURBINE WHEEL
- TURBINE WHEEL DIAMETER : 64.99 / 74.16 mm
- TURBINE HOUSING AR : .81
- TURBINE FLANGE : T4 4 BOLT / 3" V BAND EXHAUST
- COOLING TYPE : DRY HOUSING ( OIL COOLED ONLY)

3) TURBONETICS HURRICANE TURBO CHARGER "LETY"



"The Hurricane 6665-4 (Code Name: Lety) is the third turbocharger in our Hurricane series. Our Hurricane Series turbochargers focus on packing our highest flowing compressor and turbine wheels into a compact unit for vehicles with space constraint issues that need big airflow to meet their horespower goals. The 6665-4 utilizes a 66mm compressor wheel within a traditional 60 series compressor cover. This uniquely packaged compressor configuration is married with a traditional T4 turbine wheel and housing combination (F1-65) to provide 500 to 600 HP worth of air and large pressure ratio potential in an extremely flexible package. This turbo is ideal for all out power 4 cylinders and most 6 cylinder and smaller displacement 8 cylinder engines. Available in either a standard beaing or Turbonetics patented ceramic ball bearing configuration." -Turobnetics Website

PRICE: $760
- TURBINE MODEL NUMBER : 6665-4
- HURRICANE NAME: LETY
- HORSE POWER: 500-600HP
- COMPRESSOR WHEEL: HP-66
- COMPRESSOR INTAKE/OUTTAKE: 4" / 2.5" PORTED SHROUD
- TURBINE WHEEL: F1-65
- TURBINE HOUSING: T4 FLANGE / .81 AR
- TURBINE IN / OUT : 3" V BAND
- PART NUMBER : 11226
- OIL COOLED ONLY


so far im leaning on the "LETY" but which of these turbos do you think would be the best option in regards to what i want to accomplish and finding the perfect "Sweet Spot" spool.



thank you very much for you time and consideration

-Rick
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Old 04-16-15, 01:28 AM
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Should probably add this to your list of considerations.

BorgWarner S300SX-S360
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Old 04-16-15, 02:05 AM
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I made 384rwhp on a s4 engine (100% stock block no porting and so on) @ 15psi on the T04S (60-1) with fully divided ar 1.0.
U have a s6 engine and should be well over 400rwhp at 15psi!
Mine had ball bearing thou and i had full boost at about 3.6k rpm
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Old 04-16-15, 03:59 AM
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I agree check out the borg Warner s300 / s360. That's what Im going with.. Just need a few more bits until I can Install mine
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Old 04-16-15, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Arca_ex View Post
Should probably add this to your list of considerations.

BorgWarner S300SX-S360
^ This!

My car did 34X RWHP at 11 psi on a T04S .84, stock port REW engine. For the price, I would consider a BW S360
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Old 04-16-15, 03:18 PM
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I dont know how I over looked the Borg Warner Air works modle.

But it seems like a very great option but my question with regards to the S300/S360 is:

Does this come with a 3" V-band?

OR

Do I have to actually opt to mill out the and weld on a 3" V-band turbo flange?

&

What spec should provide me the HP and excellent Spool "Sweet Spot" ?

I.E.

Turbine Wheel size?
Inlet/Outlet size?
A/R size?
Twin Scroll/Open Scroll?

☆ Thank you guys for all your input very useful information ☆

- Rick
Attached Thumbnails UNDERRATED TECH: Journal Bearing-forumrunner_20150416_131626.jpg   UNDERRATED TECH: Journal Bearing-forumrunner_20150416_131637.jpg  
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Old 04-16-15, 04:24 PM
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I would stick with the smaller 60-1 compressor for fastest spool and quality of the Garret over Turbonetics with the power goals you list.

Additionally, I would try to get a "P" trim exhaust wheel in a "big" 1.06AR GT35R T3 divided exhaust housing (or the Holset HX35 18.5 cm) on a divided T3 manifold for best spool while not choking out on the top end.

Now, my brilliant idea is to use the stock 3rd gen sequential turbo manifold/switching actuator as a quickspool valve.

send all the exhaust through 1 manifold/turbo runner at low rpm for maximum exhaust velocity and then switching to both manifold/turbo runners with an rpm switch for more top end flow. Obviously, it will only work with dual wastegate manifold- so there is some extra cost there.
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Old 04-16-15, 04:30 PM
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My S5 based 60-1 BNR Stage 4 with 60mm external wastegate did 340rwhp @12psi and 380rwhp @14psi with the smaller "HiFi" compressor cover choking flow.

120rwhp by 3,000rpm (like GT35R).
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Old 04-16-15, 05:48 PM
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Assuming you spent the time to reinstall the supporting cast correctly, why would you do a small single for ~400hp for street use when sequential BNR's will easily do that and not give up so much down low...?

BNR's + Greddy V mount(only like 2400 from RHDJapan right now w/o shipping/duty fees) is about the same price as a decently sorted single setup using the basics but has OEM fitment(with a few OEM draw backs) retains all emissions components so it will pass visual(can atleast show it has the EGR/Air pump installed and argue the V-mount is just fixing the severe factory cooling limitation) and tail pipe inspection which in CA might be a good thing to keep.

Jason

Last edited by Jason94R2; 04-16-15 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 04-16-15, 06:31 PM
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Assuming you spent the time to reinstall the supporting cast correctly, why would you do a small single for ~400hp for street use when sequential BNR's will easily do that and not give up so much down low...?

BNR's + Greddy V mount(only like 2400 from RHDJapan right now w/o shipping/duty fees) is about the same price as a decently sorted single setup using the basics but has OEM fitment(with a few OEM draw backs) retains all emissions components so it will pass visual(can atleast show it has the EGR/Air pump installed and argue the V-mount is just fixing the severe factory cooling limitation) and tail pipe inspection which in CA might be a good thing to keep.

Jason


Reasons I can think of-

1) If you owned an FC.
2) If you couldn't figure out how stock sequentials work/how to maintain them.
3) If you are looking for a simpler robust set up to track.
4) If you really want 380-420rwhp and 350-380rwhp isn't enough.

For the record, I like my sequential twins FD powerband much more than my 60-1 FC and equal to my EFR 7670 FC.
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Old 04-16-15, 11:40 PM
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The stock be s360 does not have a 3" vband it has a marmon flange which as I understand is very common in diesels. Either way you can buy the marmon flange easily and quite cheaply
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Old 04-18-15, 06:39 PM
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so with some but not very extensive research is that i plan on getting a Borg Warner S300 with a 90 degree Compressor Outlet

but the trouble with getting these turbos the way i want them gets a lil more expensive

so far the three models from the s300 line up all seem like a very great option but two of the three models (S300SX3-60 & S300SX3-63) come with a .88 A/R open scroll undivided

the BW S300SX3-66 is the only one that actually comes with sought after .91 A/R Twin Scroll Divided.

i found a place online that is selling the S300SX3-66 for $600 and don't get me wrong i am very sure that many people who track their cars think the compromise of getting the SX3-66 over the (SX3-60 or SX3-63) is all good, but for a street driven/a few track days car like mine, the S3-60 or the S3-63 seems like the better option with seeking out a .91 twin scroll divided housing of course, but thats another $140 + Shipping added to the price tag

can anyone with the the S3-66 .91 A/R have any good input on how laggy they are on the street?



thanks again for all your time and consideration

- RICK
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Old 04-18-15, 06:46 PM
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Old 04-18-15, 06:53 PM
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Just call up Geoff at full race. Same guy as the link posted above. He'll answer all your questions and make up your mind for you. Then you can tell us the what was the best solution for your needs
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Old 04-18-15, 08:58 PM
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you can get them all with the .91 divided housing. see below link for the s300 / s360 , it dosent have a 90deg compressor outlet but that's not really a major.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BorgWarner-Airwerks-S360-S300-83-75-91-A-R-Twin-Scroll-Turbocharger-/121270709480?hash=item1c3c4c2ce8&vxp=mtr

Last edited by 96fd3s; 04-18-15 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 04-22-15, 10:58 PM
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This is a good realistic goal after reading all these posts on the borg warner efr turbos. I want response, but I need to keep my budget realistic so I should be looking into a similar turbo for the future
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Old 04-26-15, 10:19 PM
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I am running the BW S300 .88 with the 90* compressor outlet and I absolutely love it!!

~10psi by 3800rpm. Don't know hp yet. But it's response is brutal in 2nd and 3rd
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Old 04-27-15, 01:07 PM
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for street cars in this power range - the 61.4mm S300SX FMW is my recommendation, with 0.91 a/r -- it includes a beefy journal bearing, Forged-milled compressor wheel (aka billet) and cupped tip turbine wheel option is a good consideration on 13B
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Old 04-27-15, 04:01 PM
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Any reason to overlook turblown tdx?
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Old 04-28-15, 10:53 AM
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turblown is a top quality organization, I would not overlook them for anything. they can supply the entire line of BW turbos also
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Old 04-28-15, 11:57 AM
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What manifold u plan on running OP?
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Old 05-01-15, 06:08 PM
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i will also recommend the S300SX - S360 .91

i am running 9-10psi and the response is good -- not the best, but good, especially for $700 (177272).
i got mine for $620 while boostlab.com had them on sale, but now they're back up to $730


and really, you'll love the borg warner "whistle". haha.

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Old 05-03-15, 02:35 PM
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I would wait for the SX-E to be released by BorgWarner if looking for a journal bearing turbo.

P.s. Thanks for the kind words Geoff !
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Old 05-06-15, 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Full-Race Geoff View Post
turblown is a top quality organization, I would not overlook them for anything. they can supply the entire line of BW turbos also
I was just wondering if there was a reason nobody mentioned them. Im running one on a large street-port, hits max boost (7psi) at 3000rpm with no boost controller in effect and no lag between gear changes. Embarrassingly i am still yet to source a decent tune to find out what she can really do.

Last edited by WANKfactor; 05-06-15 at 03:02 AM.
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