Turbo manifolds really $1000????
08-06-09, 11:13 PM
#26
You learn a little bit about this stuff if you ever take any kind of cost accounting. When you buy a $1000 manifold, you are paying for
1) the steel flanges and pipes, as has been discussed
2) the labor for someone to fabricate it
3) the welding supplies. Shielding gas isn't cheap, and the cost of the welder itself is allocated in portions to each product it produces. So for arguments sake, if a nice welder cost the shop $5,000 and 100 people buy the manifold, you are each paying $50 for the welder.
4) the development time that went into it to make sure it fits and has a low likelihood of cracking
5) hopefully a warranty. You and everyone who buys that manifold are effectively paying into a sort of insurance program. 100 people buy a manifold, figure they are all paying x extra dollars (wrapped into the price) to cover the cost of the few that may in fact fail despite all the engineering that has gone into the piece
6) shop overhead
1) the steel flanges and pipes, as has been discussed
2) the labor for someone to fabricate it
3) the welding supplies. Shielding gas isn't cheap, and the cost of the welder itself is allocated in portions to each product it produces. So for arguments sake, if a nice welder cost the shop $5,000 and 100 people buy the manifold, you are each paying $50 for the welder.
4) the development time that went into it to make sure it fits and has a low likelihood of cracking
5) hopefully a warranty. You and everyone who buys that manifold are effectively paying into a sort of insurance program. 100 people buy a manifold, figure they are all paying x extra dollars (wrapped into the price) to cover the cost of the few that may in fact fail despite all the engineering that has gone into the piece
6) shop overhead
08-07-09, 09:55 AM
#27
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Fritts-
Im not arguing that it is highly significant. You are probably correct that spool time and max power are very slightly different. However this is what i have been reading so this is what i have been led to believe and therefore i want to do it the best way i can afford the first time so im not in wonder later... (maybe it would spool quicker and have more power if i had a differnt mani.=...etc etc) I have never had a turbo car. This will be my first. I was just trying to explain some of the logic to the guys on here that say they will make a manifold for $200 dollars and expect it to perform or hold up as good as a professional $1000 mani. You may be right about the egts too it would be cool to seee some actual tests done on a rotary
Im not arguing that it is highly significant. You are probably correct that spool time and max power are very slightly different. However this is what i have been reading so this is what i have been led to believe and therefore i want to do it the best way i can afford the first time so im not in wonder later... (maybe it would spool quicker and have more power if i had a differnt mani.=...etc etc) I have never had a turbo car. This will be my first. I was just trying to explain some of the logic to the guys on here that say they will make a manifold for $200 dollars and expect it to perform or hold up as good as a professional $1000 mani. You may be right about the egts too it would be cool to seee some actual tests done on a rotary
08-07-09, 02:41 PM
#28
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I too thought they were over-priced until I tried building one myself. I spent a few hundred dollars on materials, flanged and a $500 Lincoln Mig.
30 hours of labor later, I gave up and had A-Spec build me a custom T6 manifold.
Read,
https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/those-who-build-manifolds-living-%2A%2Apics%2A%2A-703789/
and,
https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/my-new-turbo-manifold%3B-thanks-spec-%2A%2Apics%2A%2A-793593/
30 hours of labor later, I gave up and had A-Spec build me a custom T6 manifold.
Read,
https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/those-who-build-manifolds-living-%2A%2Apics%2A%2A-703789/
and,
https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/my-new-turbo-manifold%3B-thanks-spec-%2A%2Apics%2A%2A-793593/
FAP FAP FAP FAP....man A Spec makes Premo ****
Last edited by GoodfellaFD3S; 08-07-09 at 05:01 PM. Reason: please dont quote all the pictures.
08-07-09, 03:48 PM
#29
Fritts-
Im not arguing that it is highly significant. You are probably correct that spool time and max power are very slightly different. However this is what i have been reading so this is what i have been led to believe and therefore i want to do it the best way i can afford the first time so im not in wonder later... (maybe it would spool quicker and have more power if i had a differnt mani.=...etc etc) I have never had a turbo car. This will be my first. I was just trying to explain some of the logic to the guys on here that say they will make a manifold for $200 dollars and expect it to perform or hold up as good as a professional $1000 mani. You may be right about the egts too it would be cool to seee some actual tests done on a rotary
Im not arguing that it is highly significant. You are probably correct that spool time and max power are very slightly different. However this is what i have been reading so this is what i have been led to believe and therefore i want to do it the best way i can afford the first time so im not in wonder later... (maybe it would spool quicker and have more power if i had a differnt mani.=...etc etc) I have never had a turbo car. This will be my first. I was just trying to explain some of the logic to the guys on here that say they will make a manifold for $200 dollars and expect it to perform or hold up as good as a professional $1000 mani. You may be right about the egts too it would be cool to seee some actual tests done on a rotary
08-07-09, 11:13 PM
#30
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Sounds to me like you have never made one then. I easily spent $500 on 321 SS tubing and a weeks worth of work getting the design tweaked to where I wanted it. It was only $500 because I made my own 304 SS engine/turbo/wastegate flanges too...
u r funny, take a look at my photo ablum. my point is that for the average joe to make a manifold it might be costly cause its ur first time doing one so the cost might get to a $1000; but think about a shop that has all those welding equipments already, the most it's gonna cost them is a $150 in material. so again $1000 is over priced. welding gas is not that expensive either, i have all them all. for cost and performance nothing beats schedule 40.
08-07-09, 11:54 PM
#31
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u r funny, take a look at my photo ablum. my point is that for the average joe to make a manifold it might be costly cause its ur first time doing one so the cost might get to a $1000; but think about a shop that has all those welding equipments already, the most it's gonna cost them is a $150 in material. so again $1000 is over priced. welding gas is not that expensive either, i have all them all. for cost and performance nothing beats schedule 40.
08-08-09, 12:02 AM
#32
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i guess that big holset hx60 bolted itself to a cast iron t4 flange and the hx55 that is mounted at the radiator support is also on stock manifold. again my point is for a company who buys all those materials at bulk prices and is not making it for the first time it's alot to charge someone a $1000. it might cost you that much but if you were supposed to do another one will it cost just as much?
oh and yes the pic of the black car which i mine the manifold is not clear but my point also was to show you that YES i've made manifolds before. i just finished making one for a customer today.
oh and yes the pic of the black car which i mine the manifold is not clear but my point also was to show you that YES i've made manifolds before. i just finished making one for a customer today.
08-08-09, 12:06 AM
#33
u r funny, take a look at my photo ablum. my point is that for the average joe to make a manifold it might be costly cause its ur first time doing one so the cost might get to a $1000; but think about a shop that has all those welding equipments already, the most it's gonna cost them is a $150 in material. so again $1000 is over priced. welding gas is not that expensive either, i have all them all. for cost and performance nothing beats schedule 40.If you can build a comparable manifold to this for less than $500 i will take three of them. Oh, and they need to be light as well
08-08-09, 12:16 AM
#34
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wow ur right it has to be light, i think we should tell the turbo manufactures to make lighter turbine housings like the one in the picture too, oh how about the complete turbo lighter since we want to save 5-10lbs on a manifold. turn up the boost if you have a weight problem.
08-08-09, 12:22 AM
#35
They have already done that but it too is expensive and unfortunately they don't make one for the turbo i am running. That manifold is probably half the weight of a weld-el manifold. If it were only a few pounds i wouldn't sweat it but i figured i go with better materials and the weight savings would just be icing on the cake.
08-08-09, 12:32 AM
#36
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well i've not had any problems with the material i'm using, i've seen it glow red red after many highway pulls and still no cracks. so i guess it's different strokes for different folks.
08-08-09, 05:24 PM
#40
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
08-08-09, 08:11 PM
#42
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
13B - what material is this manifolds? looks nice...
08-09-09, 09:37 PM
#44
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You guys must love doing charity work with the prices you are talking. There is no way your going to making a profit by making those manifolds for $500, especially with them being 321. Like arghx said, there are so many other costs you're not taking into account, unless you're willing to work for like $5 an hour... You can claim that you can make them for these prices all you want, but I wouldn't believe you until you actually have one on the market.
08-09-09, 11:23 PM
#46
You guys must love doing charity work with the prices you are talking. There is no way your going to making a profit by making those manifolds for $500, especially with them being 321. Like arghx said, there are so many other costs you're not taking into account, unless you're willing to work for like $5 an hour... You can claim that you can make them for these prices all you want, but I wouldn't believe you until you actually have one on the market.
If you are working out of your house where you dont have extra overhead, sure $500 is good. When you have other factors to pay for, $500 is much too low. Labor cost includes paying the employee doing the work AND making a profit for the business. When you take into account the other factors like overhead(rent, insurance, utilities, etc...) and materials, $1000 isnt bad for a manifold.
08-11-09, 06:51 AM
#49
+1 my brother and I have spent the same amount custom making our own and for others...When it comes down to it...material, time and labor, and all the power and electricity used to make this **** when done right using 1/2 inch flanges,SS runners and at that schedule 10 or 40 then v-bands to make it that much prettier things starts to add up quick really quick!!!So a $1000 for a mani is not out of line the seller is almost making no money on the item...
08-11-09, 07:46 AM
#50
LOL my manifold came from an off-the-shelf workshop operation in Australia. It cost me $350AUD (under $300USD) including shipping and if you buy from there you'll get it less 10% due to no gst but have to pay a lot more in shipping.
1000USD easily paid for
mandrel bent thick wall steampipe turbo manifold
mandrel bent mild steel 3" system from the turbo back
my stainless intercooler pipes
my stainless pod pipe to connect the turbo front to inside the air damn
When I go to a T3/T4/T6 turbo I already have a quote for $750AUD which is about $630USD for another steam pipe turbo manifold and a 3" dump pipe to join to my existing exhaust.
$1000 is a joke
My fabricator is very good at TIG welding and other things and he always does a top notch job. He personally doesn't like using 304 grade staino that the performance crowd seem to love. Basically he says its too hard a metal and will not last the test of time like mild steel will (trading a little bit of surface rust for a piece that won't crack after a few hundred heat cycles)cracking through
1000USD easily paid for
mandrel bent thick wall steampipe turbo manifold
mandrel bent mild steel 3" system from the turbo back
my stainless intercooler pipes
my stainless pod pipe to connect the turbo front to inside the air damn
When I go to a T3/T4/T6 turbo I already have a quote for $750AUD which is about $630USD for another steam pipe turbo manifold and a 3" dump pipe to join to my existing exhaust.
$1000 is a joke
My fabricator is very good at TIG welding and other things and he always does a top notch job. He personally doesn't like using 304 grade staino that the performance crowd seem to love. Basically he says its too hard a metal and will not last the test of time like mild steel will (trading a little bit of surface rust for a piece that won't crack after a few hundred heat cycles)cracking through
can you share the name of that shop? Even with shipping it would benefit alot of us