Marcel Burkett

I want to upgrade my FD's ignition system on the leading coils by using the separate trailing coils (minus the igniter , of course) of the second gen with a pair of MSD 6A's , both coils / MSD's would be wired in parallel thereby allowing the waste spark like the original set
- up , what do you guys think ?.
Also , does anyone know how these coils would compare to the MSD HVC street coils ?.

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

I too would like some clarification on this. I am nearing the end of my project and I have 3 MSD 6AL's, a Haltech E6K, and TII ignition coils.



I was told to bypass the TII ignitors altogether, that with 3MSD's they aren't used.

Can anyone with experience on this clarify?

Marcel Burkett

I know you would need some sort of ignitor to fire the coils ' cause the E6K cnnnot sink the current that is required for this , thats what the ignitor does , I wouldn't be using the TII ignitor because I am already using the stock one.

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

Are you sure? I was told that the E6K will fire the MSD white wire, henceforth - no Ignitors.

Remember, I am using 3 MSD's 1 for leading, 2 for trailing.

Marcel Burkett

No thats not so if you do a search or go to the MSD site yoy will see that the white wire is connected to the -ve terminal of the ignitor / amplifier this is what the E6K will trigger to switch the ignitor on / off .

Poweraxel

i have 4 crane hi-6's and 4 crane LX-92 coils.. i set my haltech to trigger on "rising" and output constant duty switch after 50%

works great!

Steve

RICE RACING

Hey Steve

I though I was crazy running two Hi-6's and LX92 coils

Poweraxel

yeah everyone thinks im crazy its pretty funny.. the crane HI-6's make these "capicator" noises it sounds pretty audible as you rev up you can hear it at a greater speed. my LX92 coils also make this noise...

Rice: does your LX92 coils make this noise too? and do you run "multiple spark"?

BTW: guys if you run this set-up you could ditch your stock ignitor

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

Ok, so the final answer is?

I don't need the stock ignitors right?

Poweraxel

correct, your 6A boxes will be your ignitor for the coils

RICE RACING

No mine do not make that noise (dead quiet), I do run in multy spark mode.

I remember another forum member (Ken I think?) mentioning this (noise) but he was running of the ignitor, I trigger mine of the ignitor, but have no noise?

Marcel Burkett

So if you do use the ignitor would the final voltage at the plug be higher , because the ignitor is an amplifier so it would raise the inlet voltage to the 6A causing a higher output ? , and can some one answer the original question ?.

RICE RACING

I am pretty sure the ignitor is only used as a triggering method and as such will not effect the output of the CDI box.

Marcel Burkett

Ok then , but I'll be using mine any way , and what about the original question???.

moespeed

Does anybody realize that the multispark duration of the MSD6As on a trailing coils are probably close to 80 degrees.
This may not be the same for the Hi-6. The Hi-6 has a selector for how many cylinders you are running.
Pete, what do you have this set as and how much degrees of spark duration do you figure you have?

Poweraxel

the crane hi-6's have as much as 30 degrees ... set to 4 cylinder

moespeed

I was not sure if the Hi-6 had a 2cyl setting.
Poweraxel, If you have the haltech fire the usual way with trailing splits do you realize that the trailings would have twice the duration of multisparks than the leading because it is sparking twice as slow. Would the leading/trailing duration be 15/30 or 30/60 degrees.

moespeed

The MSD-6A was set up to run on a V8 engine at 20degrees of spark duration up to 3,000 rpm where it may go to single spark. Put this on a 4cylinder which would corespond to the leading coil on a regular direct fire 2rotor and it becomes 40 degrees duration up to 6,000 rpm. Put this on direct fire trailings and you multiply the last values by 2. (80 degrees up to 12,000 rpm).

Marcel Burkett

Ok fine , since you guys wouldn't answer my question i'll have to find out by trying it myself.

RICE RACING

moespeed, mine is set in 4 cyl mode.

With the timing light attached it switches to single spark at 3000rpm on the tacho, which is dead right cause the unit is seeing the same ignition signal input as a 4cyl engine, as my ecu (twin ingnition channels) are spliced to trigger the leading transistor "ignitor" for each both front and rear rotors I.E. wasted spark mode.

So 4 cyl mode works fine on the wasted spark leading set up I have.

RICE RACING

Sorry Marcel, I am only familiar with the Crane set up (Hi 6 & LX92) I have used MSD 6A with Blaster coil but it is not what you are after?

As far as firing it, You said you wanted to bypass the ignitor all together? I am not sure what signal the MSD will require to trigger the unit, I have always triggered these units from the ignitor (easiest way) when only upgrading the leading only, if you do leading and trailing you can fire the boxes with a signal from the ECU but I do not know how you can do both at once as your trailing will still be fired from the ignitors, I say you can buy a Bosch 008 ignition module and use the trigger signals to fire this module and use the output from this module to fire both MSD 6A's in parrallel with the coils you want to run.

Marcel Burkett

Cool rice thanks , by the way ..........you having trouble sleepi'n? , what you doing on the forum at this time ?.

moespeed

Marcel, the sun was shining in RICE RACINGs neck of the woods. He is probably 6 hours ahead of the time posted. Looked like you just closed the bar in your homeland. Wasn't it almost 4:00 am when you posted that message?
I am sorry about not answering your question.
What you said about two MSD-6As on the leadings will work. Just use the negative wire from the original dual out put coil to signal the white wire of the two MSDs. The orange and black wires from each MSD will drive each coil. MSD coils would probably match up a little better than the coils you want to use.

Hope you got enough sleep. As for me I am on vacation this week.

Poweraxel

moespeed: are you suggesting turning off multi-spark on the trailers or alltogether?

moespeed

I do not have a suggestion. It's just that I recently put three MSD-6A units on my car and it obviously run great. I like it. But just wondered how far back could I run my trailing with such a high duration before it may be an issue. Also when I hit the rev limit with ignition cut, what exactly could be going on at that moment. Just things to think about. The reason why it is on my mind is because I just crewed up a month ago running on 93octane the burning out in 2nd gear at 8400 rpm with the boost hitting 24psi cracking a single apex seal.
I remember a road racer guy telling me that the MSDs on the trailing seem to hurt the motors. Don't really know he was doing. It has got me thinking.