tear down pics. May change turbo also..
I never said "Ray" wasn't any good....I just don't hang on his nuts like some people. 
06-01-08, 10:32 PM
#29
BDC Motorsports
I can't honestly tell a difference unless I get a better picture of it. I don't think I took any of the engine when I first built it way back. I don't recall changing the rotors out, either. Unless by some chance they're of wildly different series and weight (and you'd know it; the assembly would vibrate to death), it won't be the cause of what's going on with the way the car's running when it's missing up high.
B
B
06-01-08, 10:53 PM
#30
I can't honestly tell a difference unless I get a better picture of it. I don't think I took any of the engine when I first built it way back. I don't recall changing the rotors out, either. Unless by some chance they're of wildly different series and weight (and you'd know it; the assembly would vibrate to death), it won't be the cause of what's going on with the way the car's running when it's missing up high.
B
B
06-01-08, 11:26 PM
#31
BDC Motorsports
B
06-02-08, 08:14 AM
#33
"Elusive, not deceptive!”
Mike, did you notice the dark carbon spot on both sides of the spark plug hole? Also the cracks?
This indicates the lifting of that surface. My theory is that this wll break apex seals, chipped ends of the stock Mazda seals or in your case broken off centers.
This would call for better water cooling in the area of the spark plugs.
Barry
This indicates the lifting of that surface. My theory is that this wll break apex seals, chipped ends of the stock Mazda seals or in your case broken off centers.
This would call for better water cooling in the area of the spark plugs.
Barry
06-02-08, 09:11 AM
#35
Mike, did you notice the dark carbon spot on both sides of the spark plug hole? Also the cracks?
This indicates the lifting of that surface. My theory is that this wll break apex seals, chipped ends of the stock Mazda seals or in your case broken off centers.
This would call for better water cooling in the area of the spark plugs.
Barry
This indicates the lifting of that surface. My theory is that this wll break apex seals, chipped ends of the stock Mazda seals or in your case broken off centers.
This would call for better water cooling in the area of the spark plugs.
Barry
06-02-08, 10:43 AM
#36
"Elusive, not deceptive!”
What happens to the adjourning rotor phase when the seal is lifted and burning gasses escape into its fresh charge? Preignition?
Barry
06-02-08, 11:48 AM
#40
"Elusive, not deceptive!”
And why were we taking it apart?
My disassemblies were for broken apex seals. Imagine the seals snapping across that sparkplug high spot and jamming the wedge end against the point of the apex seal. I believe this is one failure mode for stock Mazda seals that I use.
The reason I came to this conclusion was that I found one unbroken but cracked apex seal. It was cracking from the bottom! I visualized them breaking from the top. Why would it break on the non-dynamic supported side?
I haven’t seen the centers burning out like this one of Mike’s or Ernie’s. This may be the failure mode for Atkins apex seals.
Barry
My disassemblies were for broken apex seals. Imagine the seals snapping across that sparkplug high spot and jamming the wedge end against the point of the apex seal. I believe this is one failure mode for stock Mazda seals that I use.
The reason I came to this conclusion was that I found one unbroken but cracked apex seal. It was cracking from the bottom! I visualized them breaking from the top. Why would it break on the non-dynamic supported side?
I haven’t seen the centers burning out like this one of Mike’s or Ernie’s. This may be the failure mode for Atkins apex seals.
Barry
06-02-08, 11:57 AM
#41
BDC Motorsports
I've got an engine I'm building today, Barry. I'm going to have a peek at this a bit more closely and see if I can get a better idea as to what you're talking about. Give me a ring this afternoon if you're not too busy.
B
B
06-02-08, 11:58 AM
#42
Mike, did you notice the dark carbon spot on both sides of the spark plug hole? Also the cracks?
This indicates the lifting of that surface. My theory is that this wll break apex seals, chipped ends of the stock Mazda seals or in your case broken off centers.
This would call for better water cooling in the area of the spark plugs.
Barry
This indicates the lifting of that surface. My theory is that this wll break apex seals, chipped ends of the stock Mazda seals or in your case broken off centers.
This would call for better water cooling in the area of the spark plugs.
Barry
Barry, I did not go that deap into looking over the housing as well I should have. Once I saw the guage in the housing and the tearable wear marks plus broken apex seal I just sourced another housing. I was surprised on how it wore the surface of the housing. Maybe it was due to the seal chipping a little at a time??
So how do I get better cooling in that area?
06-02-08, 12:04 PM
#43
Ignition misfire chipped a seal.
Perhaps there may be more to it though - but I'm curious as to why these marks are found so frequently (can't recall an engine I've torn down that didn't have these) since I'd rather avoid tear down's if at all possible, and if these marks are a sign of a preventable issue - I'd like to be on top of it.
Sorry to minorly thread jack
(although somewhat related)
Perhaps there may be more to it though - but I'm curious as to why these marks are found so frequently (can't recall an engine I've torn down that didn't have these) since I'd rather avoid tear down's if at all possible, and if these marks are a sign of a preventable issue - I'd like to be on top of it.
Sorry to minorly thread jack
(although somewhat related)
06-02-08, 12:58 PM
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ENGLAND, UK
Posts: 524
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Barry, I did not go that deap into looking over the housing as well I should have. Once I saw the guage in the housing and the tearable wear marks plus broken apex seal I just sourced another housing. I was surprised on how it wore the surface of the housing. Maybe it was due to the seal chipping a little at a time??
So how do I get better cooling in that area?
So how do I get better cooling in that area?
What heat range plugs you using ? you may want to run cooler plugs.
Are they fc housings or fd?
rgds
Brian
06-02-08, 01:42 PM
#46
"Elusive, not deceptive!”
Kenichi Yamamoto's book shows the temps around the plug area.
I think we need better cooling in this area. Some possibilities are:
1- Internal cooling fins.
2- Better water pump.
3- Tighter water pump impeller clearances.
4- Larger water passages next to the leading plug especially.
5- Supplemental cooling water per Afgmoto’s drawings.
Barry
I think we need better cooling in this area. Some possibilities are:
1- Internal cooling fins.
2- Better water pump.
3- Tighter water pump impeller clearances.
4- Larger water passages next to the leading plug especially.
5- Supplemental cooling water per Afgmoto’s drawings.
Barry
06-02-08, 10:26 PM
#47
Full Member
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
check on the stamps of the rotors that should give you some idea on balance. also weight them,the hi comp rotors are lighter. i am almos 100% sure that you were running 2 different compressions in that motor. post more pics of the rotors or pm me and i will find out for you.
Tony Martinez
Tony Martinez
06-03-08, 05:42 AM
#49
Hot Dicken's Cider
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Marion, Ohio
Posts: 1,428
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I opened my j-spec 13B-T for the first time, it had rotors with differently shaped combustion pockets as well, so I don't think that has anything to do with it. The machining marks were the same though. Both were of the same code.
06-03-08, 06:52 AM
#50
Your looking for letters for one, A,B,C,D,E also check for markings near the bearing on the non gear side on older rotors. Weigh them. Having one that is grooved and one that is not is not a big deal slight change in manufacturing. I'm guessing your rotor pair is not a issue for you at this point.