t04r decision help
11-12-12, 04:39 PM
#1
t04r decision help
hey all, looking for some advice, any help is appreciated. ive done a lot of searching within the forum, whats left in question is either opinion or i really couldnt find.
so i own a 93 fd, stock twins, 64k miles on original unopened motor. recently did a compression test and read around 85psi on all faces. the stock twins have always had boost issues and also gave the previous owner problems so after 2 years of owning im ready to ditch them and go single.
so originally i was looking at the rx7store gt35r kit along with their extreme fuel kit. it fit my needs, looking for around 400-450, street driven. recently have had to tighten my budget so have been considering the t04r kit rx7store offers along with stock 850cc secondary injectors bored to 1300cc.
i havent seen many running the t04r kit from rx7store. can anyone possibly chime in on this, the fitment, the manifold, etc?
so from what i understand the t04r is laggier than the gt35r but has a higher top end. i plan to install the t04r along with the 1300cc secondaries and tune on 13 pounds for now. the following winter i would like to install auxilliary injection, ignition amp, top feed 1680cc injectors, 3 bar map sensor and crank the boost up to maybe 16-18 pounds.
my reasoning for this route im now leaning towards are the cost is almost a grand cheaper, leaving me with a grand towards the next stage, or when my stock motor possibly blows. from what i understand the t04r's are easier and cheaper to be rebuilt, so if and when the motor does blow and possibly throw a seal through the exhaust it wont be as bad. i plan to street port the motor sooner or later anyways.
so basically, does this seem reasonable or practical? is the thing going to be a dog on 13 pounds? i plan to add the supporting mods and up the boost later on so i can be patient. and like said before, does anyone have experience with the t04r kit from rx7store? i dont really feel like saving and waiting til next winter like some may say, im pulling the motor either way to do motor mounts and oil pan gasket, so would like to tackle the turbo while im at it.
thanks for any help or opinion in advance!
so i own a 93 fd, stock twins, 64k miles on original unopened motor. recently did a compression test and read around 85psi on all faces. the stock twins have always had boost issues and also gave the previous owner problems so after 2 years of owning im ready to ditch them and go single.
so originally i was looking at the rx7store gt35r kit along with their extreme fuel kit. it fit my needs, looking for around 400-450, street driven. recently have had to tighten my budget so have been considering the t04r kit rx7store offers along with stock 850cc secondary injectors bored to 1300cc.
i havent seen many running the t04r kit from rx7store. can anyone possibly chime in on this, the fitment, the manifold, etc?
so from what i understand the t04r is laggier than the gt35r but has a higher top end. i plan to install the t04r along with the 1300cc secondaries and tune on 13 pounds for now. the following winter i would like to install auxilliary injection, ignition amp, top feed 1680cc injectors, 3 bar map sensor and crank the boost up to maybe 16-18 pounds.
my reasoning for this route im now leaning towards are the cost is almost a grand cheaper, leaving me with a grand towards the next stage, or when my stock motor possibly blows. from what i understand the t04r's are easier and cheaper to be rebuilt, so if and when the motor does blow and possibly throw a seal through the exhaust it wont be as bad. i plan to street port the motor sooner or later anyways.
so basically, does this seem reasonable or practical? is the thing going to be a dog on 13 pounds? i plan to add the supporting mods and up the boost later on so i can be patient. and like said before, does anyone have experience with the t04r kit from rx7store? i dont really feel like saving and waiting til next winter like some may say, im pulling the motor either way to do motor mounts and oil pan gasket, so would like to tackle the turbo while im at it.
thanks for any help or opinion in advance!
11-13-12, 09:47 AM
#2
I would very very strongly suggest waiting a bit to do a single swap if the budget is holding you back. I am in the same process (single swap) and additional expenses pop up like you wouldn't even believe.
For one, picking a different turbo because it is cheaper is a poor idea IMO. If you don't do your research and pick what you want, you will be disappointed. The route you are going for fuel, you won't be able to get near the full potential of the T04R. Not to mention that that is a journal bearing, so you're going to have a slow spooling, decent high end turbo but you won't be able to make the high end because you lack the fueling!
If you are insistent on doing this now, look in to a used turbo kit from this forum. Even if you are on a budget, I think the best place to spend money is on a fuel system. Get parts so that even if you wanted to upgrade later, you would still use them. If I were in your position, I would be buying the FFE secondary fuel rail, and ID or Bosch EV-14 2000cc injectors for secondaries and leave the primaries as is (for now.)
Don't bore your injectors. That just spells trouble to me. That's not how they were designed to be used.
A PROPERLY done single conversion is not cheap.
Out of curiosity, what other mods would be done to support the setup?
For one, picking a different turbo because it is cheaper is a poor idea IMO. If you don't do your research and pick what you want, you will be disappointed. The route you are going for fuel, you won't be able to get near the full potential of the T04R. Not to mention that that is a journal bearing, so you're going to have a slow spooling, decent high end turbo but you won't be able to make the high end because you lack the fueling!
If you are insistent on doing this now, look in to a used turbo kit from this forum. Even if you are on a budget, I think the best place to spend money is on a fuel system. Get parts so that even if you wanted to upgrade later, you would still use them. If I were in your position, I would be buying the FFE secondary fuel rail, and ID or Bosch EV-14 2000cc injectors for secondaries and leave the primaries as is (for now.)
Don't bore your injectors. That just spells trouble to me. That's not how they were designed to be used.
A PROPERLY done single conversion is not cheap.
Out of curiosity, what other mods would be done to support the setup?
Last edited by Mitchocalypse; 11-13-12 at 09:50 AM.
11-13-12, 04:31 PM
#3
well now im considering a ball bearing t04s instead of the t04r, im not aiming for huge power yet.
my car currently has apexi power fc, apexi fmic, fluidyne radiator, dual oil coolers, greddy elbow, aeromotive fuel pump, 3" catless exhaust, air pump delete, egr delete, and im sure more im forgetting. battery relocated to rear bin..
whats on my list to buy is aem uego, boost, fuel pressure, and maybe egt gauge (currently only have narrowband and boost). tial blow off valve (have an old blitz i might just keep). block off kit for single turbo conversion, polyurethane motor mounts, oil pan gasket, abs delete kit, intercooler piping and couplers, a nipple to tap the compressor housing and other misc parts. obviously this isnt all turbo related, just stating my plans.
i could afford aux injection and ignition amp to the mix, but would like to get it all running before adding other components that could be more things to look over if i have issues. threw a bunch of parts on a car of mine in the past and had it all tuned at once and it was nothing but a nightmare, id like to take it slow.
my car currently has apexi power fc, apexi fmic, fluidyne radiator, dual oil coolers, greddy elbow, aeromotive fuel pump, 3" catless exhaust, air pump delete, egr delete, and im sure more im forgetting. battery relocated to rear bin..
whats on my list to buy is aem uego, boost, fuel pressure, and maybe egt gauge (currently only have narrowband and boost). tial blow off valve (have an old blitz i might just keep). block off kit for single turbo conversion, polyurethane motor mounts, oil pan gasket, abs delete kit, intercooler piping and couplers, a nipple to tap the compressor housing and other misc parts. obviously this isnt all turbo related, just stating my plans.
i could afford aux injection and ignition amp to the mix, but would like to get it all running before adding other components that could be more things to look over if i have issues. threw a bunch of parts on a car of mine in the past and had it all tuned at once and it was nothing but a nightmare, id like to take it slow.
Last edited by skem; 11-13-12 at 04:46 PM.
11-13-12, 09:08 PM
#4
well now im considering a ball bearing t04s instead of the t04r, im not aiming for huge power yet.
my car currently has apexi power fc, apexi fmic, fluidyne radiator, dual oil coolers, greddy elbow, aeromotive fuel pump, 3" catless exhaust, air pump delete, egr delete, and im sure more im forgetting. battery relocated to rear bin..
whats on my list to buy is aem uego, boost, fuel pressure, and maybe egt gauge (currently only have narrowband and boost). tial blow off valve (have an old blitz i might just keep). block off kit for single turbo conversion, polyurethane motor mounts, oil pan gasket, abs delete kit, intercooler piping and couplers, a nipple to tap the compressor housing and other misc parts. obviously this isnt all turbo related, just stating my plans.
i could afford aux injection and ignition amp to the mix, but would like to get it all running before adding other components that could be more things to look over if i have issues. threw a bunch of parts on a car of mine in the past and had it all tuned at once and it was nothing but a nightmare, id like to take it slow.
my car currently has apexi power fc, apexi fmic, fluidyne radiator, dual oil coolers, greddy elbow, aeromotive fuel pump, 3" catless exhaust, air pump delete, egr delete, and im sure more im forgetting. battery relocated to rear bin..
whats on my list to buy is aem uego, boost, fuel pressure, and maybe egt gauge (currently only have narrowband and boost). tial blow off valve (have an old blitz i might just keep). block off kit for single turbo conversion, polyurethane motor mounts, oil pan gasket, abs delete kit, intercooler piping and couplers, a nipple to tap the compressor housing and other misc parts. obviously this isnt all turbo related, just stating my plans.
i could afford aux injection and ignition amp to the mix, but would like to get it all running before adding other components that could be more things to look over if i have issues. threw a bunch of parts on a car of mine in the past and had it all tuned at once and it was nothing but a nightmare, id like to take it slow.
It sounds a lot to me like you're heading down this path again. You need to have a plan for everything otherwise you will run in to big problems, find out parts might not work, and spend more in the long run.
a smaller turbo sounds like it would be better for you. gt35r kit would be ideal but they are usually fairly expensive even used.
Browse through the for sale section daily until you find what you're looking for. t04s like you mentionned would probably be good but you might have a hard time finding that kit.
Power FC I would say is a good engine management choice
sounds like your cooling is good.
I would also recommend an hks twin power, a less expensive water meth kit right off the bat (aem comes to mind) and a good boost controller.
11-14-12, 01:06 AM
#6
How? Im trying to keep it simple and gradually build up. My previous car i went ***** out from the getgo, and screwed with everything at once and created a recipe for disaster.
Im trying to get the problematic twins out while the motors pulled, run 12-13 lbs or so until i upgrade to bigger top feed injectors, map sensor, ignition amp, and auxiliary injection. Didnt really see much flaw or question in this route (which is also why i first posted) other than the reliability of 1300cc secondaries and the quality and fitment on the t04s kit RX7store offers.
I appreciate your opinion, but not quite sure if you understand my goal. I dont really feel like dropping what it takes on a higher end kit, when my motors stock unported, and i probably wont be running high boost levels until it is. If my motor was built and ported already, my plans at this time would probably differ.
I have been looking at boost controllers, leaning towards just a hallman manual, but not sure. And also didnt really think i would need an hks twin power at the time until i crank the boost? Seemed like overkill, and dont want to sacrifice plug life if i dont need to. Maybe i should do the hks twin power and water inj while im at it, but like said id rather not add other components in that could potentially cause issues and is easy enough to install once everythings back together anyways.
Im trying to get the problematic twins out while the motors pulled, run 12-13 lbs or so until i upgrade to bigger top feed injectors, map sensor, ignition amp, and auxiliary injection. Didnt really see much flaw or question in this route (which is also why i first posted) other than the reliability of 1300cc secondaries and the quality and fitment on the t04s kit RX7store offers.
I appreciate your opinion, but not quite sure if you understand my goal. I dont really feel like dropping what it takes on a higher end kit, when my motors stock unported, and i probably wont be running high boost levels until it is. If my motor was built and ported already, my plans at this time would probably differ.
I have been looking at boost controllers, leaning towards just a hallman manual, but not sure. And also didnt really think i would need an hks twin power at the time until i crank the boost? Seemed like overkill, and dont want to sacrifice plug life if i dont need to. Maybe i should do the hks twin power and water inj while im at it, but like said id rather not add other components in that could potentially cause issues and is easy enough to install once everythings back together anyways.
Last edited by skem; 11-14-12 at 01:19 AM.
11-14-12, 09:13 AM
#7
How? Im trying to keep it simple and gradually build up. My previous car i went ***** out from the getgo, and screwed with everything at once and created a recipe for disaster.
Im trying to get the problematic twins out while the motors pulled, run 12-13 lbs or so until i upgrade to bigger top feed injectors, map sensor, ignition amp, and auxiliary injection. Didnt really see much flaw or question in this route (which is also why i first posted) other than the reliability of 1300cc secondaries and the quality and fitment on the t04s kit RX7store offers.
I appreciate your opinion, but not quite sure if you understand my goal. I dont really feel like dropping what it takes on a higher end kit, when my motors stock unported, and i probably wont be running high boost levels until it is. If my motor was built and ported already, my plans at this time would probably differ.
I have been looking at boost controllers, leaning towards just a hallman manual, but not sure. And also didnt really think i would need an hks twin power at the time until i crank the boost? Seemed like overkill, and dont want to sacrifice plug life if i dont need to. Maybe i should do the hks twin power and water inj while im at it, but like said id rather not add other components in that could potentially cause issues and is easy enough to install once everythings back together anyways.
Im trying to get the problematic twins out while the motors pulled, run 12-13 lbs or so until i upgrade to bigger top feed injectors, map sensor, ignition amp, and auxiliary injection. Didnt really see much flaw or question in this route (which is also why i first posted) other than the reliability of 1300cc secondaries and the quality and fitment on the t04s kit RX7store offers.
I appreciate your opinion, but not quite sure if you understand my goal. I dont really feel like dropping what it takes on a higher end kit, when my motors stock unported, and i probably wont be running high boost levels until it is. If my motor was built and ported already, my plans at this time would probably differ.
I have been looking at boost controllers, leaning towards just a hallman manual, but not sure. And also didnt really think i would need an hks twin power at the time until i crank the boost? Seemed like overkill, and dont want to sacrifice plug life if i dont need to. Maybe i should do the hks twin power and water inj while im at it, but like said id rather not add other components in that could potentially cause issues and is easy enough to install once everythings back together anyways.
You will not be able to run a single turbo at 12 psi on stock injectors. I think that's the point where you'd even upgrade them if you were still on the twins.
I'll send you a pm, okay!
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