pianoprodigy

I have had the car back from the Microtech install fiasco for about a month now. The boost was set at 10 psi because I wanted to get used to driving with that much power. It felt very very fast when I first got it. Now, I don't know if it is just that I have become used to the power or if something is not right. Anyways, my car is going into the shop on Monday for the Profec B Spec II install, fix of the 5th gear synchro, and installation of an aluminum flywheel.

My question is, what kind of power should I expect to see? Vosko made around 450 rwhp at only 15 psi with his T78. The T66 should be just as efficient at that kind of boost level, right? I have only "raced" two people thus far.

Lost to a Turbo S2000 (3 cars or so 40-120) running 11 psi. I don't feel too badly about this one considering the car has 240 hp NA and then you slap on a turbo running 11 psi, he's gotta be making some good power.

Last weekend, I kinda raced a EXTREMELY mean sounding New Mustang GT. We stayed pretty even from about 60-100. This sounds bad to me! I don't know the extent of his modifications, but I'm pretty sure I should have raped him!

What I do know, is that my car is running VERY rich. I don't know the AFRs but it is VERY rich. I don't know how much that could be killing my power. I'm running 1600cc secondaries and I don't have a stumble, I have a parking barrier. It seems like I can either go fairly light on the throttle or jam it all the way in. No in betweens. If I give it say mid throttle, I'll rev to around 3500 RPMs and car definitely bogs. The boost gauge actually goes more into vacuum for a second. Usually by then, I just floor it and get past the stumble and shoot a large flame...

Anways, some in this area have questioned the abilities of my mechanic. I figure that the only way that I will be able to know whether or not my setup is running properly is to take the car to the dyno.

All that to say...Please give me a LOW and HIGH figure for RWHP at both 15 and 20 psi.

I know that a lot of threads ask this question, but I'm really concerned that I get what I pay for (as if anyone wouldn't be that way).

Sorry for the long post...I hope I made sense

-Alan

Badog

TUNE THE CAR FIRST!

The car sounds like it could be a freakin' kick **** ride. Why risk blowing the money and the work/time? Don't take it to the dyno until it's tuned. And if it was tuned, you wouldn't have the issues and you'd still be pulling like a beast. And, whoever tuned it would tell you what they tuned it up to. Got a 3-bar MAP sensor, I hope?

Don't strap it to the dyno and pop the motor on the first run...ease into and don't run for the numbers until you fine tune it.

lok33

Dyno it, you'll pick up a lot of hp.

kabooski

Dude
I have a Microtech
and also happen to have a T66

have yet to dyno it
but wendsday I ran a 12.6 @14PSI

I also had at 1st boost set to 10
your just tickling the turbo at 10 pounds

Try 14-15 and ull see a BIG diffrence

In a few weeks my tuner will be back from Australia
hes taking a MicroTech seminar to further his tunning skills

Were in Orlando
come down for some tunning when he gets back

JScott

Have a couple people with you. You'll need eyes to watch the AFR's and remind you to do things. This is assuming your going to wideband(this is a must). Make sure they tell, scream, wildly wave arms etc if AFR's start climbing above 12. (this is also assuming they let you run it yourself).

FYI, I popped a seal a month ago on the dyno. I was below 10 to 1, I pulled 10% fuel, AFR's were showing mid 11's with a spike about 12.2, but it didn't like it.

I'm now tuned to 10.7-10.9 at full boost. It seems happy there and trapped 120mph last night.

pianoprodigy

Good to meet you kabooski! 12.6 at 14 psi? I thought it would be faster at 14 psi. Is this an FC or FD? If this is accurate, then I guess I would probably run a high 13 then.

The car has been tuned though. Only street tuned, but it has been tuned. I think my mechanic is trying to be overly cautious with the super rich AFRs.

I still haven't heard from anyone though...

What will an acceptable RWHP be at 15 psi?
What will a great RWHP be at 15 psi?

Thanks...

RageRace

Vosko did make around 450 at 15psi but you also have to remeber that he is running high comp. rotors, which will give more power at low boost levels. Like BADOG said have a "qualified" person tune it first, then go to the dyno and do the fine tuning. Also 10 psi is barely getting the spool to move once you start getting into that turbos efficiency range, OMG it will be a whole nother story. Its been said once its been said a thousand times: "ITS ALL IN THE TUNING!!!". Cant wait to see the results but dont want to hear you blew the motor on your hot rod neither.
JT

kabooski

Well this was my 1ST time at the track
after the MicroTech install
and also my clutch was slipping

I did 112MPH so I should be able to do low 12's high 11?
and gain some MPH with a better clutch

stangkilr

your car sounds very unhealthy to me...first off u should have raped the s2k even at 10lbs...and the mustang should not even have been a contest...

2nd vosko made 407rwhp at only 10lbs...it sounds to me like even at 15lbs u'll be in the 350-360rwhp range until u get it tuned right...just keep a close eye on your a/f while on the dyno...

Marshall

Take a better look at Vosko's 450 rw dyno. I would realistically expect 390-420 SAE.

in2twins

What trim and ar? A 1.00 Q trim @20psi is good for 500rwhp(seen the dynos) on a street port. The T66 is really just getting going at 15 psi, in the Supras, we regularly run 20-35 psi on a T66. I have, but have not installed a .81 Q trim undivided. I will be installing it in the next couple months. I expect ~450@20psi on a street port, and ~500@25-28psi. I know someone who will be running a slightly larger turbo with a BB center on a fully divided manifold. He may make ~430@15 psi(my guess). I have seen alot of low #s on T66s, I think that is because they are being run on low boost which is not their forte. That's my take, hope it gives you a little insight, Carl

pianoprodigy

Thanks Carl! That does help put things into perspective. The car ran awesome tonight on the way home. I got a nice empty stretch of road with my FC buddy in the passenger seat. I took it from 40-120 and it felt very strong. This makes me feel much better. Unfortunately, I bought the car with this turbo installed, so I don't know what the Trim and AR are. Is there a way that I can find out? Obviously, I could look and compare, but I would need something to go on for reference. I plan on dynoing at 10 psi (current), 15 psi (new "low" setting), and 20 psi (new "high" setting). My mechanic told me that I need to run race gas on anything above 14 psi!?! Is this true? I mean, I know that it is safer that way, but I'm already paying $60/week on gas! I can mix race gas and Premium (93 Octane) right? I figure it would just form a happy medium.

I'm hoping for 500 rwhp at 20 psi. Supposedly, the engine has a "large" streetport (whatever that means). Are 1600cc injectors necessary at that kind of boost level? That is what I have currently, but I'm unhappy with the everyday driving performance of the 1600cc because of the BAD bog that I get when they first come online. Would 1200 or 1300cc injectors be better and sufficient?

-Alan

dvls-7

Hey guys,

I see that the consistent thing is for him to get it tuned and then take it to the dyno.....?? Why not tune it on the dyno....thats what its there for...(if the dyno is equipped properly) I work at a dyno and ive yet to see someone come in who said they tuned it on the street and it ran better as opposed to tuning on the dyno. Im not trying to start anything, i was just curious. Yes guys have blown their motors on the dyno.....but at least you can see why/how it blew vs being out on the street and waiting for AAA or a buddy to come tow you back and then guess what happened to it. Just my .02. Good luck with it, and you should be making some very nice power with that setup.

dvls-7

Hey Alan,

If you are doubting your mechanic then i would find someone else. Also you don't need race gas for 14psi i know guys running 20psi on pump and not having any problems.....its all in the tuning. My suggestion is if you are able to take your car to a reputable tuner or have the tuner come to you.

suganuma

I would run race gas (100 octane or better) on anything above 17 psi.

The only way I know of to check what a/r and trim exhaust wheel you have is to look on your turbine housing for a raised set of #s indicating the a/r and take the downpipe off to measure the wheel.

MODEL.....TRIM.....EXDUCER.....MAJOR
T4............ P...........64.62..........74.22
T4............ Q..........68.40.......... 79.02

64.62 millimeter = 2.5440945 inch
68.4 millimeter = 2.6929134 inch

so you can see the part of the turbine wheel that you can see with only taking the downpipe off is a fairly close length and it is sometimes hard to get a good measurement. i'm pretty sure you're not wanting to take your housing off and maybe not even your downpipe right now, but it's probably something you should do sometime to really figure out "where you are."

your car should also not be stumbling/bogging like that when the secondaries come in. that is a tuning issue. if the tuner can't get that feeling pretty good, i'm not sure that i'd want him messing with my ignition settings (especially if i had a good base map to start from)...

dvls-7:
it is common for cars to get a good tune in on the street and run great and then blow up on the dyno. that has also happened the other way around. it's just a matter of how the dyno is loading the car versus how it is being loaded on the street. from what i have "seen" it is difficult for either one to replicate the loads the car will see in every type of weather and terrain unless you start up your laptop with a good wideband and good EGT gauge and run around different days and different months getting the correction settings and map that those read off of "safe" for YOUR particular setup. a one-time dyno or street tune will always be a rough tune with inherent compromises. this meaning that the car wont run at its absolute peak efficiency/power or if those settings were made very conservative generally speaking, you might run too close to the jagged edge of power/efficiency and blowing up. i'm sure someone will try and rip me for this opinion so i'll slap this disclaimer in here that this is MY opinion....

pianoprodigy:
i suggest to get the car tuned by a reputable tuner in the rx7 community who is familiar with your EMS. whether you choose to have that tuning done on the street or the dyno is your choice along with what that tuner prefers.

pianoprodigy

I think that the secondaries are coming on too early. If I remember correctly, my mechanic said that they come on at 3k RPMs or with 4 psi present. Well, tomorrow is the day to drop off the car. Hopefully, my mechanic called the dyno place and set an appointment. The dyno place is a very reputable shop in this area. Alot of VERY fast cars dyno there. Supposedly, my car has been extensively tuned on the street. Maybe the dyno will allow my mechanic to really fine tune the power and get the horrible stumble out.

Will 1600cc injectors ALWAYS stumble? Would 1200cc be sufficient at 15 or 20 psi?

-Alan

in2twins

Properly set up the 1600s will not bog. As for dyno tuning vs street, both have their merits, and in combination will give you the best of both worlds.
I STRONGLY SUGGEST YOU RUN STRAIGHT RACE FUEL UNTIL YOU ARE FULLY TUNED, NO MATTER WHAT BOOST YOU ARE RUNNING. I always do this until my set-up is fully sorted. there are alot of other things that can pop a motor besides excess boost.
I like to tune on the dyno with a wideband. I prefer this because I find it easier to focus on the task at hand, and not on distractions like no more road, or the police. I also prefer to use my own wideband, or at least one that is of a known age, and condition. The sensor should be at least a foot or so down the DP to avoid excess heat, and pressure waves(excess heat, and pressure can sku the reading a full point, combine this with a marginal O2 sensor, and POP). Do not rely upon a tailpipe sensor unless you have no cats, and you have already measured the RPM delay(using another WB). The WBs at dynos tend to be pretty abused, they get thrown around, and are subjected to alot of use with leaded race fuel. None of these things is good for accuracy. Remember if your adding timing, or pulling fuel, and you do not see an increase in torque STOP-GO Back to where you stopped seeing an improvement, do not leave your settings where they are. Alot of guys like to rough tune on the street, and then go to the dyno, that's fine for experienced tuners, but I would never just tune on the street since you cannot detect subtle changes in torque, and therfore accuratley adjust timing. MY .02 Carl