DCrUiSe

I was just wondering which is bigger because the 20g will put a dsm over 400 horsepower and the apexi will for the fd.

Greg

Comparing how a turbo will make power on a DSM vs a FD is like comparing stripper and fat girls ( I didnt wanna say apples and oranges DOH, I just said it ) 20G turbos are good for the DSM. They are smaller than the Apexi Turbo. The Tdo6 25G is comparable to a apexi turbo.

DCrUiSe

Not that i want to start anything but dsms can get into the 11's alot easier then the fd. (more reliable)

vosko

iTrader: (4)

umm, i heard from lots of people they are almost as finicky as FD's...............

ErnieT

iTrader: (2)

I beg to differ boy wonder. I used to have one when Extreme Motorsports was running out of their garage in Columbia, Md.
As for getting in the 11's in a DSM, sure its possible, but not nearly as easy and reliable as a FD. I had a DSM w/ a built motor, 20G blah blah blah......and broke every damn thing on the drivetrain every other week as well as smoked a clutch every 10 passes. The DSM is a good reliable high 12 sec car, but when your talkin 11's its a whole new ball of wax kiddo. And you can't compare a econ sports car with a Japanese Supercar.

enzo250

Ernie Sorry to burst your bubble but it's extremely easy and reliable to get a DSM to go 11's. A junkyard 4G63 with minor bolt ons and a 20g will go high 11's. (been there done that)

I've even seen a dsm with a 16g and 100 shot go 11.2 with stock internals and over 120k miles. (how's that for reliability)
The 4G63 is a very strong block. I also have a friend who's boosting 30psi with a 100 shot on a stock bottom end running 10.4's

Anyway before i start a war i just wanted to say that most japanese turbo cars are great cars so i don't see why you guys fight all the time about it. It's just a matter of choice thats all. The 2JZ-GTE, 3S-GTE, 4G63, 13B, SR20DET, RB26DETT are all excellent motors and anyone of them can make some serious power.

ErnieT

iTrader: (2)

Im not going to argue on what you have "seen". I speak from experience.....Do you? No, you only quote you've seen the car run 10's, 11's......blah blah....Not saying it can't be done. Hell Sean runs 8's. But you'll break more center diff's than you can count as well as countless cluthes as I have. Thats why I now own a Japanese Supercar and get the job done in style.

enzo250

Ernie i owned a 91 eclipse, 93 talon, 88 Saleen, 93 mustang lx, civic (turbo), jeep cherokee(work truck). So yes i speak from experience.

Oh. the only time i broke my center diff was with a 200hp shot. Other then that no other problems with my dsm's. The 91 had a tranny that didn't like to shift at high rpms but the talon was fine. the 91 also had 100k miles. DSM's are tough as **** so don't blah your mouth like you RX7 is a supercar and dsm's aren't. There both excellent cars and chances are if you ever race a properly hooked up dsm on the street(well at least here in NY) you will lose.

I now own a 93 R1, 87 Ae86, E34 M5, Subaru Wrx. I've been building semi-race/street cars all my life and most of my friends do to. So im always around cars.

The Rx7 is being built at the moment and as so as it's done i will post the dyno results here. ~600-650 rwhp.

DCrUiSe

On a dsm you can go into the 11's with the stock turbo (1g) and 12's with the stock turbo, ic piping, injectors, and IC. so in other words less than 2k in the engine to make 12's.

ErnieT

iTrader: (2)

On a RX7 I went consistant 11.7's all day on stock injectors and stock turbo's. Your point? And I never broke a center diff or burnt a clutch in 15 passes either. The clutch housing in a DSM is tiny. For that reason they don't last for ****. The car is nice. Don't get me wrong, but its not a RX7 and it sure isn't faster.

7 Secrets

LOL ErnieT, kidding kidding, but I'm going to have to agree with ernie here. Things happen, some of them are called flukes, take Saad's Supra for example, 1050hp? Its a dyno queen, but not everybody and their brother has one. You are talking to an ex DSM guy, I've been through three, and still hold the record for the fasest FWD spyder in my state. I went with a 20G mitsubishi turbocharger, and granted yes, Its a big turbo, requires an external wastegate, and for DSM', its puts down alot of HP. But on my spyder, I had every street bolt on, full race intercooler, split duration 264/272 HKS cams and HKS cam gears, I mean the works. Nothing was stock but my bottom end, and my best ET was 12.28@110, and don't tell me I don't know how to tune a car, I have the 13th fastest street supra in the states, and shooting for some FD records as well. I know DSM's, they can make wonderful times, but they too have their flaws. What about the infamous crankwalk on the 2G's? the 4G63 may eat alot of HP for a 2.0 inline 4, but it doesn't hold it too well, especially under 12.0 1/4's. ****, even at 12.28 I went though my fair share of axles and an LSD....

peejay

It's cool to watch those guys... pick up their shattered trannies off the ground

ErnieT

iTrader: (2)

Don't come to the RX7 house and talk smak.........you'll get sent back to the barn quick......lol....

DCrUiSe

I didn't come here to bash you guys... i Love the fd and the only reason i said the dsmwas more reliable was because of the fd's history of blown apex seals. Yes you can prevent it if you know what your doing but you can also prevent crank walk. Anyways i was talking about the 1g's not the 2g's. Don't get me wrong, I have no bad feelings for the rx-7. I was just trying to ask a simple question.

peejay

Yeah, you prevent crank walk by not using the 2nd-gen DSM block with the oil squirters that hang open and keep the main bearings from getting enough oil! (I wonder how many of those engines died at 50k diagnosed with "bad oil pumps" when it was because of those squirters)

Apex seals die from poor tuning... meanwhile DSMs eat trannies left and right just because they're made of glass j/k... but I remember clearly talking to a 3000GT guy who changed trannies every 6-12 months... and then the mysterious explosion under a DSM last summer (he said it was the exhaust but you don't need to PUSH A CAR OFF THE TRACK if the exhaust blows up!), pretty sick, it spun all four tires going into 2nd and then *BANG*

JUNIORAWD

I will start my first post by saying that I like FDs. I am between an FD and a MKIV for my next car.

Now on to my post. I see here some bad information. If it took you a built motor and a 20g to just get into the 11s its a good thing you got a "real" sports car. I have a late 1g with some mods. I am speaking from expereince when I tell you that it doesnt take a built motor and a 20g to get 11s. If you did it was poor driving or tuning. I have friends going 11s on 16gs with stock junkyard motors, friends running low 11s on stock motors, 10s on stock motors, and most of all one particular friend that has run 11.5 @123 with a 20g and 110k+engine. How about 125 compression and running 10.6s? @ 133mph. How about 10.5@135 with 17s and a full interior and Ac driving to and from the track? My particular setup has gone 11.2@128 with a blown headgasket.(not my car) You are severly misinformed with some of your comments. I am not flaming or talking **** just spreading some truth about DSMs.
I do agree that the trans is a weak link, but JOHN SHEPHERD has run all year LOW 10S HIGH 9S @ 145+ on street tires without 1 incident of drivetrain damage. Pretty weird? Well currently there are guys that build DSM trannies that a near bullet proof and dont have the same bad rep as the stockers.
As far as the clutch burning in 10 passes...thats what happens with a stock clutch. Or thats why you needed a built motor and a 20g to run 11s.

wanklewankle...How about Jeff?????? You said you would get him? I dont think you are swalling that? as well as a bunch of us others...Pretty hard to swallow.

Greg

I agree, with a big 16g at around 20 psi and some head porting you can run 11s in a 1st gen

JUNIORAWD

Its a STOCK MOTOR. No cams, porting...ect. 100% factory.
I should have specified when I wrote my post, the faster times 11/10s when I write STOCK motor I mean, no Forged pistons, connecting rods. They have some, if any port work, but they do have cams.

Like I stated in my post, its not a flame, trolling ro anything of the sort. I was just posting correct information, coming from a person that is in the DSM circle. I have very high regards for Rotories, just some(well it is rx7club) people think they are beging and end.
Especially wankelwankle, its kinda hard to smke anything fast running 13s...I dont care if you made 200mph on the pass its still a 13!
BTW....Wankles car is very fast. I Like it. Just not a real strip contender until he slaps on some slicks and drives it.

Greg

we welcome good information and facts here.

Amir

OMG, is this Ryan Woon talking smack about Saad? I thought the AZ supra guys were butt buddies. Is there something else that went down inside of the AZ crew?

Anton

I personally like DSM's as well as RX-7's. I like the AWD tranny on DSM's (shitty if you can't launch). I originally was gonna buy a 2g, but decided on a FD due to the coolness factor (rareness!). BUT please do not diss DSM's. I personally know a person with 400whp on a 2g DSM, no crankwalk, stock 1g head, and 22psi on a Frank2 (46 A/R). I have ridden in this car, believe me 11 seconds. Go to norcaldsm.com, go to members rides, John Huh & Joe sukkar. I will post Joey's link (videos of him wasting Skyline's, SS nitrous Camaro's and the like) when I get it.

magnus

The 20g is only good for maximum 550hp at 30 psi on a rotary that would be about 400 hp cause of its inherent innefficiency.

I'm the guy who wrote the article on crankwalk, did all the research, and found the easiest way to bolt a 1g block into a 2g. I've dedicated more money to finding a fix to that problem than anyone else. I'm the crazy canuck who cut all those blocks to pieces. http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/crankwalktheory.htm

We race two cars a 97 AWD Talon and a 93 rx7. The 2.0L bottom end is one of the most bulletproof bottom ends out there, I run 23 psi on pump gas on my daily driver (16g stock IC), I used to run 25 on pump gas on my old car (TEC-II FMIC, G-pumper turbo, stock bottom end) that thing made just under 500 hp on the rollers in street trim. In street trim the rx7 puts down about 420.

you can't get that from a rotary, but then again rx-7's don't ride like trucks either. The trannies can be troublesome on DSM's, but if you let the power do the work and baby the tranny, you can be rewarded with some bottom elevens in a full street car. The 20g turbo is an old design and is being slowly replaced by better offerings.

we're currently working on a 'big block' for the DSM 2.4L that should make even more usable power for the race and street guys.

As far as going fast for what money, you can run big boost on a stock motor stock bottom end on a 1g, rods are the deciding factor over 550 hp. When you start building motors for a fuly built motor on a DSM, you can buy 2 rotaries. So If you wanna be the king, its the same money, just take your pick AWD, or RWD.

dyno sheets are at http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/sick.htm
the black car is all fiberglass.
It runs 11.4@ 145 breaking trannies 623hp 2700lbs

rx7 pics are at http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/jeffrey.htm

the rx7 runs 10.46@ 137