I would do one or the other. If it's currently tuned with AI, try bypassing the Intercooler. If that does next to nothing, then re-connect the IC and ditch the AI, tune accordingly, and see where you end up. It's pretty clear it should be running cooler then it is, and make more power, so trial and error my friend. Make sure you get that fuel issue sorted out before anything though.

And +1, post up your current map, dyno run w/ AFR and boost, and IGL/IGT data.

 

My advice is to stop injecting anything, no meth or water just for now....

Use some high octane fuel, 110 or a mix of C16 if going to 20psi +

Change plugs to new plugs, all 9s.

Dyno again at 20psi and post the sheet.

What apex seals are in the motor?

What air fuels was this power made at?

Your intake temps are high but that is not the issue.

Anthony

 

another thing you could do is take a look at your dyno sheet.. if it is making an assload of torque, then there is a restriction in the system, probably your exhaust

 

Id put money on a restriction or a very dumb *** timing map.

Cant be much else.

 

start with the damn pressure test. just because you think you have no boost leaks (the whole "I checked my plumbing, I swear!" mentality) doesn't mean you are in fact leak-free. It's not every expensive or time consuming either.

 

Ive even seen a rag find its way into the intercooler.
The tunner sounds suspect. And listen to anthony and check the basics and make sure there right!

 

Yes you are right guys, I will get them to do a pressure test because I can not be sure they are seeing every possible place for boost leaks. Also I will make them bypass the intercooler and retest because like Busted7 says, there is still the posibility that something got into it and clogged it since it is very strange that the temperature is staying almost the same thru it. Of course I will tell them to do those test at 15 psi to stay safe.
As for the Dyno sheet, the maps and the AFR's, I will try to get them on Monday when I go to the shop.
At least I am happy that most people agree with the original suspicion I had that the intercooler ( unless it has an internal clog) is not the culprit, that the turbo is correctly sized and that the exhaust even though not the best there is, shouldnt be causing that massive power restriction. Also I guess most people agree that if they actually did a VERY large streetport, it should be idling rough no matter what tune you have? And not be smooth as a stocker?
Thanks again everyone for your help here, I will get more details on Monday, maybe tomorrow if I am lucky.
Leo

 

Your center section is what we call a 'resonated midpipe' here on the forum, it's pretty common.

How good are these guys with building rotaries? I hope they clearanced all the seals and verified endplay correctly.......

 

About the porting...

It might very well have a large sized intake port, but nearly stock sized exhaust ports. I too have a large street port in my FD, and it idles pretty smoothly albeit at 1100rpms. Idle quality has to do with overlap. While port size does have something to do with overlap, port timing has more to do with idle quality. CJ

 

x2 i have heard stock ported cars lope like hell becouse of a bad tune as well!

You just need to get to the truth of whats going on with your car becouse from what im hearing facts are very rare and wild *** guesses are in the majority!

Talking tuner and shop in the above.

 

Ok I was able to get some more fact now, they just did a pressure test and besides a very small leak (he says it was very, very small) from an o ring on the throttle body area, the rest was ok. The spark plugs being used are brand new 9's. And the AFR is staying almost constantly at 11.5. It seems that the peak horsepower has been raised slightly to 320 whp now. They are in the process of bypassing the intercooler to see if it makes a noticeable difference but they dont think it will since they say while doing the dynoing, between the first dyno session and the third one, the temperature raised considerably even with very cold ambient temperatures, making the intercooler look as the possible suspect.
After bypassing the intercooler, they will do a pass with it and without the water/meth injection just to make sure everything is ok.
Hope that yields some answers. They are supposed to email me the printouts of the dyno with all the info.
As soon as I get them I will post them.
Leo

 

Make sure they add a bit of fuel after taking the AI off. How much alcohol are you injecting, how big are the nozzles? If you are using some serious amount, it could be that they need to get a bit more aggressive with the timing, however seeing as your IAT's aren't dropping anywhere near ambient, it doesn't seem like you're using a whole lot.

 

I dont mean to be an *** butt: I mad 326 w/h/p with a t3 t4 stock injectors ported motor and a fuel piggy back at 15 psi tunning it by rasing and lowering the boost. And it had the stock intercooler on it.
It ran fine till i got some bad gas and blew it up after a year beating on it.
Hell it went 11.90 1/4.

 

^^To throw fuel on the fire, I made 350 rwhp at only 12 psi on a dynojet with my old 'puny' BNR twins

 

Ok people here are some details I was able to get from them before Monday. There is 4 graphs showing the whp with exhaust, without exhaust and without the intercooler that for some reason despite the increase in temperature and slight enrichment to avoid detonation (not logged in the chart unfortunately) gave 5 more whp.( does that mean there is something wrong with the intercooler? ) They say they took all the pipes out and checked the intercooler as much as they could to try to see if there was a clogging problem and they didnt see anything wrong.
One IMPORTANT thing, I dont know why they told me before it was a Dynojet when the charts say is a Mustang Dyno?? I hope I didnt make the mistake and understood incorrectly since everytime we talked on the phone, the reception was awful.
Well, I will copy what he wrote to me:
"We removed the intercooler and gained hp, 5 hp is not much but considering high intake temps and i also made it a little on the rich side to counter any possible detonation. Ive attached a couple of graphs
Quick run down at what your looking at
-339hp vs 308hp is the dyno with and without exhaust, high is no exhaust
-308hp vs 314hp is the dyno with and without intercooler, high is no intercooler
-one graph of -fuel pressure notice on the very top end it drops from 56-55
-Total power just to show you this was making 315hp
-Engine/roll rpm ratio notice the graph is smooth with the hp, that means no clutch slip
-last is the highest hp graph with air fuel ration on, just like i said between 11.6-11.4 while in boost
I will right down some IGL and IGT numbers so you can reference them if you feel the need.
For IGl at full boost 7-10 degrees by peak RPM 15-17 degrees
For IGT at full boost 8-11 degrees more trailing as RPM increase
Your peak power is 6800 RPM from my experience if you've got a nice size turbo ( and you do ) and you have the supporting mods
( minus your problems which need to be fixed before we can go a ton further and be actually be able to see any gain without making your existing problems worse! ) your power should probable be a little higher considering its a large port."

Unfortunately I dont have a graph of the torque curve but I should get all that Monday.
Leo
(links just in case they dont show correctly here):
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...lo/001copy.jpg
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...lo/002copy.jpg
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...lo/003copy.jpg
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...lo/004copy.jpg

 

Typically mustang dynos read 12-15% lower then dyno jets. How they are setup makes a difference though. If it is 15% lower that would put you at 360HP with the exhaust, which is still low especially for a large street port. Even a stock port should make more then that. The numbers without the exhaust seem closer for a stock ported engine and giving a 15% loss for a mustang dyno.

Nothing really seems off with the tune though so i don't know what to think about it.

 

If that car has any kind of port on it at all there's no reason that they shouldnt be revving the motor to 8000 rpms.

 

turbo?

 

Yes thats another thing I was wondering about, why they didnt rev the engine anymore? Maybe they were just cutting it where the engine stopped producing more power. It seems like in the pass without the exhaust. power was still going up slightly when they stopped. On the other pass though, it does seem like that was the peak power at around 6700 rpm.
Ok, answering the post above, the turbo is a GT35R that was used originally by John Magnuson from this forum and he was making about 370 whp at 12 psi with a large street port he made himself if I am not mistaken. I bought the turbo with a chipped turbine wheel from him so I sent the whole CHRA to be replaced by a Garrett resaler. Anyway, the turbo after that should be new. The housings were in great shape, as I said 1.00 a/r hot side divided and .70 a/r cold side. Tial wastegate 44mm and all the piping from A-Spec. They originally had some leaks on the exhaust V-band that were fixed. So in theory the turbo should not be the problem here.
What I am interested in, now that they tried without the intercooler and gain some whp, would that mean that for sure there is a problem with it? Intercooler should be able to reduce the temperature enough that even with the added restriction will produce power. Wish they had another intercooler laying around to try Maybe they do, I will have to ask Monday.
Leo

 

Ok I have a question I thought about just now. The graphs were they compare the base run (308 whp) against the other 2, on the base one and a little on the 339 whp one, the torque didnt or just barely started to drop at the end of the run. On most dyno sheets by the time the engine reached the peak horsepower, the torque has gone down considerably. ( I guess I read something like "when the percentage of increase in rpm becomes lower than the percentage of decrease in torque, then the power starts decreasing")
So it will take some torque decrease before the power goes down.
Please someone correct me if I am wrong.
Leo

 

Droping h/p by having an intercooler installed just makes no sence.
Also it looked to me like the afr's were all over the place. It will be interesting to know why this setup isnt working well!

 

That sounds about right for a Mustang and a GT35R. The GT35R's seem to make about that power at our local Mustang as well.

thewird

 

310hp mustang dyno times 15%= 356.5 @ almost 15psi is not very far off. Sure, some tuners may pull more out of it but from other 40r dyno's I have scene it looks very close. What matters is if you are happy and how does it feel on the street..

 

Well yes after I saw they were using a Mustang Dyno I was a little relieved but still there are some things that do not add up specially the intercooler issue and the smooth idle even when I specifically asked for a large enough streetport to mimic the half-bridge idle. Unfortunately, I am not happy since by having all the supporting mods and a very high tech water/meth injection, I was expecting to reach 500 whp at around 20 or 22 psi and stay on the low 400's at 15 to 17 psi.
We'll see more tomorrow I guess.
Thanks everyone for your thoughts...
Leo

 

A GT35R can't make anything close to 500 rwhp even on a dynojet or dynopack. An intercooler definetely creates a pressure drop and restriction. If your using meth/water, its compensating for the lack of intercooler. However, this is only on a dyno where the intercoolers efficiency isn't that great to begin with. You should definitely run an intercooler regardless of dyno numbers. I wouldn't worry too much about the idling, a lot of that can be smoothed out with tuning.

And I agree, you should be pulling the RPM's further, if you notice the HP curve is still climbing.

thewird