separating fiction from reality... a couple of days on the DYNO
10-01-10, 11:06 AM
#201
Racing Rotary Since 1983
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
since many peeps and one deer are awaiting i thought i would post a brief update.
the motor started 9/28 and all seems well.
yesterday i removed the milk cartons and switched to jackstands and blew off the tires. with a bit of nervousness i started it and put it in first gear and WOW, the drivetrain went round and round. remember, i adapted to a 6 speed Tremec T56. so that looks cautiously good...
here's a few new pics of the pretty much complete CPR manifold/turbo/air filter setup.
when i designed the manifold i did spend time on positioning the intake of the compressor so it would be able to use a non restricitive (at 600 SAE rwhp) filter. 1/2 inch of water drag at 1100 CFM. you don't want to email K&N tech to find out how restrictive your filter is...
if you are running a smaller filter take a good look at it at over 500 hp. it will be getting sucked into itself. guess what happens to the pleats? as the pleats close, the filter area drops much more than the decrease in the filter diameter as they close upon themselves. some have actually put a interior structual hoop inside the filter. i would rather just use the right filter.
i also wanted a straight shot from the filter to the turbo.
next job will be to build a box for outside air. that will be after the dyno session.
busy chasing a brake fluid leak and then on the road.
and dyno.
caveat: you never know quite what is around the corner so we take it one day at a time.
howard
the motor started 9/28 and all seems well.
yesterday i removed the milk cartons and switched to jackstands and blew off the tires. with a bit of nervousness i started it and put it in first gear and WOW, the drivetrain went round and round. remember, i adapted to a 6 speed Tremec T56. so that looks cautiously good...
here's a few new pics of the pretty much complete CPR manifold/turbo/air filter setup.
when i designed the manifold i did spend time on positioning the intake of the compressor so it would be able to use a non restricitive (at 600 SAE rwhp) filter. 1/2 inch of water drag at 1100 CFM. you don't want to email K&N tech to find out how restrictive your filter is...
if you are running a smaller filter take a good look at it at over 500 hp. it will be getting sucked into itself. guess what happens to the pleats? as the pleats close, the filter area drops much more than the decrease in the filter diameter as they close upon themselves. some have actually put a interior structual hoop inside the filter. i would rather just use the right filter.
i also wanted a straight shot from the filter to the turbo.
next job will be to build a box for outside air. that will be after the dyno session.
busy chasing a brake fluid leak and then on the road.
and dyno.
caveat: you never know quite what is around the corner so we take it one day at a time.
howard
Last edited by Howard Coleman; 10-01-10 at 11:10 AM.
10-01-10, 05:58 PM
#202
Too old for this
10-09-10, 12:57 PM
#204
Racing Rotary Since 1983
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
just a brief update:
the package is running... i logged 30 miles thurs, 50 friday and expect more today. yesterday i ran 12 psi boost w my GT4094r and am happy to report nothing fell off the car
the log showed 16 psi of EMP (exhaust manifold pressure---"backpressure") at 12 psi boost. one of the design objectives of any good turbo manifold is to have as little EMP as possible. often EMP is twice boost...
also, w just a modest pedal (1.8 V TPS) at 4000 i was at 12 psi.
my primary takeaway was that the turbo seemed like a GT35... at no time did i feel like i was lugging around a big laggy turbo. given that it can make 80 pounds of air this might be pretty cool.
i still have no EGTs registering. once i solve EGTs i can get dynoing. probably next week.
happy at the moment
hc
the package is running... i logged 30 miles thurs, 50 friday and expect more today. yesterday i ran 12 psi boost w my GT4094r and am happy to report nothing fell off the car
the log showed 16 psi of EMP (exhaust manifold pressure---"backpressure") at 12 psi boost. one of the design objectives of any good turbo manifold is to have as little EMP as possible. often EMP is twice boost...
also, w just a modest pedal (1.8 V TPS) at 4000 i was at 12 psi.
my primary takeaway was that the turbo seemed like a GT35... at no time did i feel like i was lugging around a big laggy turbo. given that it can make 80 pounds of air this might be pretty cool.
i still have no EGTs registering. once i solve EGTs i can get dynoing. probably next week.
happy at the moment
hc
10-10-10, 12:46 PM
#206
Water Injection Specialist
Join Date: Apr 2003
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just a brief update:
the package is running... i logged 30 miles thurs, 50 friday and expect more today. yesterday i ran 12 psi boost w my GT4094r and am happy to report nothing fell off the car
the log showed 16 psi of EMP (exhaust manifold pressure---"backpressure") at 12 psi boost. one of the design objectives of any good turbo manifold is to have as little EMP as possible. often EMP is twice boost...
also, w just a modest pedal (1.8 V TPS) at 4000 i was at 12 psi.
my primary takeaway was that the turbo seemed like a GT35... at no time did i feel like i was lugging around a big laggy turbo. given that it can make 80 pounds of air this might be pretty cool.
i still have no EGTs registering. once i solve EGTs i can get dynoing. probably next week.
happy at the moment
hc
the package is running... i logged 30 miles thurs, 50 friday and expect more today. yesterday i ran 12 psi boost w my GT4094r and am happy to report nothing fell off the car
the log showed 16 psi of EMP (exhaust manifold pressure---"backpressure") at 12 psi boost. one of the design objectives of any good turbo manifold is to have as little EMP as possible. often EMP is twice boost...
also, w just a modest pedal (1.8 V TPS) at 4000 i was at 12 psi.
my primary takeaway was that the turbo seemed like a GT35... at no time did i feel like i was lugging around a big laggy turbo. given that it can make 80 pounds of air this might be pretty cool.
i still have no EGTs registering. once i solve EGTs i can get dynoing. probably next week.
happy at the moment
hc
10-10-10, 07:10 PM
#208
Racing Rotary Since 1983
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
turbine housing is 1.06. this is my top size turbo and i plan to run it at the Texas Mile in April. i will be running no gasoline... just methanol. given it's fairly large size it really seems zippy.
i use a 0-100 psi pressure sensor from FJO. i combine it w a length of stainless steel 3/16 brakeline and a few fittings. the sensor puts out 0-5 volts to my datalogit. this is the same type of sensor that i use for logging fuel pressure.
i will of course be logging backpressure on all 4 turbos and will post a chart/rpm.
probably car hit the dyno this week.
i use a 0-100 psi pressure sensor from FJO. i combine it w a length of stainless steel 3/16 brakeline and a few fittings. the sensor puts out 0-5 volts to my datalogit. this is the same type of sensor that i use for logging fuel pressure.
i will of course be logging backpressure on all 4 turbos and will post a chart/rpm.
probably car hit the dyno this week.
10-11-10, 07:51 AM
#210
Racing Rotary Since 1983
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
"bad luck with heater ducting as an intake"
good point considering that all a turbo is is a GIANT vacuum cleaner and anything that gets sucked in wrecks the compressor. a bit of re-engineering may be in order.
good point considering that all a turbo is is a GIANT vacuum cleaner and anything that gets sucked in wrecks the compressor. a bit of re-engineering may be in order.
10-12-10, 05:54 PM
#214
The Overattempter
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18ga aluminum sheet, layout your template roll it up and weld the seam, that way you can make any kind of offset/transition you need. You could also rivet it if you dont have immediate access to a TIG.
10-14-10, 12:50 AM
#215
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Howard What size/type of air filter is that? am looking for a filter to suit my build. i am aiming 550 600 rwhp. i have previously emailed k&n but the guy there wasnt particulary helpfull. and specd me a filter that tapered for some reason. im sure a tapered filter will have less surface/open area that a big straight one like yours!
Cheers Mark
Cheers Mark
since many peeps and one deer are awaiting i thought i would post a brief update.
the motor started 9/28 and all seems well.
yesterday i removed the milk cartons and switched to jackstands and blew off the tires. with a bit of nervousness i started it and put it in first gear and WOW, the drivetrain went round and round. remember, i adapted to a 6 speed Tremec T56. so that looks cautiously good...
here's a few new pics of the pretty much complete CPR manifold/turbo/air filter setup.
when i designed the manifold i did spend time on positioning the intake of the compressor so it would be able to use a non restricitive (at 600 SAE rwhp) filter. 1/2 inch of water drag at 1100 CFM. you don't want to email K&N tech to find out how restrictive your filter is...
if you are running a smaller filter take a good look at it at over 500 hp. it will be getting sucked into itself. guess what happens to the pleats? as the pleats close, the filter area drops much more than the decrease in the filter diameter as they close upon themselves. some have actually put a interior structual hoop inside the filter. i would rather just use the right filter.
i also wanted a straight shot from the filter to the turbo.
next job will be to build a box for outside air. that will be after the dyno session.
busy chasing a brake fluid leak and then on the road.
and dyno.
caveat: you never know quite what is around the corner so we take it one day at a time.
howard
the motor started 9/28 and all seems well.
yesterday i removed the milk cartons and switched to jackstands and blew off the tires. with a bit of nervousness i started it and put it in first gear and WOW, the drivetrain went round and round. remember, i adapted to a 6 speed Tremec T56. so that looks cautiously good...
here's a few new pics of the pretty much complete CPR manifold/turbo/air filter setup.
when i designed the manifold i did spend time on positioning the intake of the compressor so it would be able to use a non restricitive (at 600 SAE rwhp) filter. 1/2 inch of water drag at 1100 CFM. you don't want to email K&N tech to find out how restrictive your filter is...
if you are running a smaller filter take a good look at it at over 500 hp. it will be getting sucked into itself. guess what happens to the pleats? as the pleats close, the filter area drops much more than the decrease in the filter diameter as they close upon themselves. some have actually put a interior structual hoop inside the filter. i would rather just use the right filter.
i also wanted a straight shot from the filter to the turbo.
next job will be to build a box for outside air. that will be after the dyno session.
busy chasing a brake fluid leak and then on the road.
and dyno.
caveat: you never know quite what is around the corner so we take it one day at a time.
howard
Last edited by GoodfellaFD3S; 10-17-10 at 09:37 PM.
10-16-10, 06:58 PM
#216
I cant wait until you actually get this car on the dyno.... im very interested in seeing results with all of the turbos.
If you see that these turbos have great response, would there be any chance that you would build manifolds?
I'd like to get a very efficient manifold that has little backpressure.
Your comment that with the 40R as to how its similarly responsive as a 35R piqued my interest.
If your tests show where each turbo starts building positive boost and where it makes a given psi, i'd be inclined to buy one from you for my single turbo build i am getting ready for.
If you see that these turbos have great response, would there be any chance that you would build manifolds?
I'd like to get a very efficient manifold that has little backpressure.
Your comment that with the 40R as to how its similarly responsive as a 35R piqued my interest.
If your tests show where each turbo starts building positive boost and where it makes a given psi, i'd be inclined to buy one from you for my single turbo build i am getting ready for.
10-16-10, 07:29 PM
#217
Racing Rotary Since 1983
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
FINALLY
is the word. i finally conquered a couple of "where'd that come from" elec issues and the car is running like a freight train.
today best buddy Ray stopped over on his Kawasaki for a ride thru the twistys. we were out for an hour. i purposely ditched my laptop and all the associated paraphenalia and decided to just drive.
i emailed Luke friday for the next dyno session and found out he is on vacation for a week. he emailed me back and asked if weekends were o k. sure... so maybe we start the project this next weekend.
as to the manifold etc... my entire car is engineered as to answer questions. the manifold is no exception. i am looking for as little backpressure as possible... early spool, an ability to run one bar boost w the controller w a turbo that will do 600 rw SAE hp. i could go on.
so we will get on the dyno and answer some questions, not only about turbos but about the manifold. if the manifold proves out it will be available along w the downpipe. if it is just another manifold i doubt i will sell it.
the filter is a K&N RD-1460 flows 1187 CFM at .5 inches of water. low restriction at 600 rotary rwhp. i refixtured it w a 3.25 inch long piece of 4 inch aluminum tubing that is around .2 wall thickness. i am totally comfortable with it...
as to the 4094... today i was pulling more than 20 psi at 4200 rpm at 72% throttle. it is amazing. whether it is the turbo or the manifold... we will see when the other turbos have their opportunity.
hc
is the word. i finally conquered a couple of "where'd that come from" elec issues and the car is running like a freight train.
today best buddy Ray stopped over on his Kawasaki for a ride thru the twistys. we were out for an hour. i purposely ditched my laptop and all the associated paraphenalia and decided to just drive.
i emailed Luke friday for the next dyno session and found out he is on vacation for a week. he emailed me back and asked if weekends were o k. sure... so maybe we start the project this next weekend.
as to the manifold etc... my entire car is engineered as to answer questions. the manifold is no exception. i am looking for as little backpressure as possible... early spool, an ability to run one bar boost w the controller w a turbo that will do 600 rw SAE hp. i could go on.
so we will get on the dyno and answer some questions, not only about turbos but about the manifold. if the manifold proves out it will be available along w the downpipe. if it is just another manifold i doubt i will sell it.
the filter is a K&N RD-1460 flows 1187 CFM at .5 inches of water. low restriction at 600 rotary rwhp. i refixtured it w a 3.25 inch long piece of 4 inch aluminum tubing that is around .2 wall thickness. i am totally comfortable with it...
as to the 4094... today i was pulling more than 20 psi at 4200 rpm at 72% throttle. it is amazing. whether it is the turbo or the manifold... we will see when the other turbos have their opportunity.
hc
Last edited by Howard Coleman; 10-16-10 at 08:28 PM.
10-16-10, 08:17 PM
#218
Racing Rotary Since 1983
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
it's a slow night so here are a few pics. engine bay close to being finished.
here's how every FD should have come from the factory
the manifold and intercooler were designed to use this filter
i have yet to heatwrap the downpipe and have, since this pic, shielded the vacuum lines above the turbine
the filter is sitting ontop of half of a Pettit duct which routes outside air. i will be making a Z shaped panel that will sit under the filter ontop of the rad hose which will join the other half of the Pettit shield. i will make a rear partition and then close all the pieces against the hood. once we get it done Pettit will offer it as a single turbo outside air system. i am using Pettit's turbine cover.
just a couple of tidbits from yesterday's run.
i ran 18.8 psi off the wastegate spring at 4400. knock was non-existant at 12.
throttle was 76% and at no time higher. . intake air temp was 73 F. (ambient was 70). since the air coming out of the turbo is close to 300 degrees and the air sensor is located before the alcohol i think the Pettit intercooler is doing a great job.
preturbo EGT was 1505! i would like to see no more than 1700 at 8000 rpm. we will see...
fuel pressure 61 psi.
a happy motor at close to 20 psi on pumpgas.
here's how every FD should have come from the factory
the manifold and intercooler were designed to use this filter
i have yet to heatwrap the downpipe and have, since this pic, shielded the vacuum lines above the turbine
the filter is sitting ontop of half of a Pettit duct which routes outside air. i will be making a Z shaped panel that will sit under the filter ontop of the rad hose which will join the other half of the Pettit shield. i will make a rear partition and then close all the pieces against the hood. once we get it done Pettit will offer it as a single turbo outside air system. i am using Pettit's turbine cover.
just a couple of tidbits from yesterday's run.
i ran 18.8 psi off the wastegate spring at 4400. knock was non-existant at 12.
throttle was 76% and at no time higher. . intake air temp was 73 F. (ambient was 70). since the air coming out of the turbo is close to 300 degrees and the air sensor is located before the alcohol i think the Pettit intercooler is doing a great job.
preturbo EGT was 1505! i would like to see no more than 1700 at 8000 rpm. we will see...
fuel pressure 61 psi.
a happy motor at close to 20 psi on pumpgas.
Last edited by Howard Coleman; 10-16-10 at 08:21 PM.
10-17-10, 10:50 AM
#219
20 psi at 4200 rpm at 72% throttle? Damn that turbo is spooling surprisingly quick! Many 500r users have been reporting spool times at or slightly quicker than this at full throttle...and that turbo is a fair bit smaller.
What is your exhaust setup?
What is your exhaust setup?
10-17-10, 12:51 PM
#220
Racing Rotary Since 1983
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
exhaust is 3 inch and uses a Borla SS straight thru mid located muffler along w a Racing Beat single exhaust catback. love the Borla #40944.
bigger (than 3 inch) exhaust generates lots of decibels and interest from people in uniforms. my car is nice around town and barks pretty good at full throttle.
of course spool is more primarily effected by manifolding design and exhaust port configuration.
bigger (than 3 inch) exhaust generates lots of decibels and interest from people in uniforms. my car is nice around town and barks pretty good at full throttle.
of course spool is more primarily effected by manifolding design and exhaust port configuration.
10-18-10, 12:05 PM
#222
~S~
Last edited by Zero R; 10-27-10 at 01:42 PM.
