Wow awsome info HC, I can't wait to see the result I thinking of going single but I am glad click on this post. I going hold out until you give us some good feedback, I am surpired there is so many companys outthere and no one offer this input to Rotary world before it would have make allot of us picking a single turbo system process simple.
Khris

 

I think a very very interesting dyno comp would be the manifold, short vs long. I'm still wondering if I should build a long one like the twins turbo one or a shorty like most. I figured I might give it a shot since a friend of mine knows the owner of redline fairly well. 3 pulls on each just to see if the manifolds make any real big difference.

 

Not to add to much fuel to the fire here, and I know this is not a rotary engine, but check out BMW's claims with their new V8 Twin Turbo: http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle...gine.html#more

 

IMHO that's just good marketing. The manifolds are the same size they would have used in a standard configuration. It sounds a bit better though than "In order to get instant response we used EXTREMELY small turbine housings that sacrifice power for spool"

 

You may be right, but I thought it was interesting nonetheless .

 

the central theme (see title) of this thread is...

going beyond theory to find reality. the project is not really about manifolds, if it were i would be testing more than one, but turbos.

of course you can't get it done without full instrumentation. i just received my custom design new EGTs



hc

 

any specs on those EGT's howard? and where to buy em as im looking to add the dual digital preturbos to my single here soon. cant wait to see the outcome of this little venture.

z

 

Why not reclock the compressor on that GT3574 to make a straight shot to the IC?

PS this is some really good stuff, Ive always wanted to see back to back (to back!) comparisons on different turbos with all other systems being equal...

 

"any specs on those EGT's"

go to Exhaust Gas Technologies...

"reclock the compressor "

it is off to far latitudinally when reclocked.

hc

 

agreed. if you look at an FD in detail, its a pretty impressive machine. when you look at a BMW in detail, you begin to wonder if these guys even went to engineering school. this "instant response" turbo thing, is the same claim mazda made in 1989, when they redid the turbo II's exhaust manifold.

Bavarian Marketing Works....

 

any plans on testing variable geometry turbos in the future?

 

Howard - I'm not sure how you're going to have your testing set up, or if it would be feasible for you, but if you'd like to test a few different style exhaust manifolds we'd be happy to supply you. Hit me with a PM if you're interested.

Casey

 

the reason why they make those claims is because of all of this twin scroll goodness




theres also the fact that they use inline liquid intercoolers as well..

 

That looks something like a divided v-band turbine housing, crazy. And A/W intercooling looks like, seems like a pretty well designed system...

 

That would be awesome, I mean a lot of other tuners going for the bigger torque and HP number say that a long runner is the way to go to maximize flow and velocity with proper sizing of the tube. Lets put it this way if an NA car benefits fairly well from 4 independent long runner headers as apposed to shorties or 4-2-1s, and what I have read up in books like four stroke tuning where they show numbers for a few different manifold setups, the long runner ones with variable sizing made the most mid and high range power. I don't see why that wouldn't apply to a turbo application where its all still the flow of gases. I doubt the differences would be anything huge but if I could see an extra 20-30 hp and torque just by extending the length of my runners I totally would. While there is the solid point that such a runner creates more bends in the manifold which would technically slow down the gases I think it could be negligible if the runner bends are kept to a few 45 dgeree large radius bends instead of sharper 90s. But if that was true than people wouldn't be building crazy tubular manifolds for most 4 cylinder engines. But this is done to shove an equal length runner system in a compact area because its more efficient than a log style manifold.

I think a test like this seems a bit more important actually because its something that effects the power a turbo makes.

 

"I think a test like this seems a bit more important"

i can assure you after building record setting piston engines for 17 years before switching to rotaries i am thoroughly familiar w NA harmonics etc. turbos introduce significantly different factors and i have no interest at this time in exploring areas that i believe to be less productive.

further, i am actually very interested in evaluating turbos as there is probably alot of comparative data to be discovered. as an added bonus i am actually going to do it rather than speculate.

since you consider testing manifolds more important i will look forward to your data.

this thread is about separating fiction (much of which is garage based theories) from reality. i am/will be doing my part. if you want to test your theories re manifolds and provide some real data we all will read it w interest.

finally, just so we are even, i consider my test "a bit more important."



howard

 

Howard, I spoke to you on the phone about a week ago about the different housings for the GT3582R and I did receive the correct one. I figured I would update you

 

Howard I bow to your years of wisdom and your obvious advantage of knowledge and understanding in this subject any day, and your probably right it probably is a more important study, and I hope to get my FD back up and running sooner than later this year and possibly put together a few tests if money so provides.

Its actually thanks to many of your great technical posts that I have gained a greater knowledge on this whole subject and am trying what I am this time around. I'm sure your tests and data as usual will be another great help to this s automotive society and many others.

Maybe "a bit more important" was the wrong choice of words. Maybe I should have said, a test like this would be a bit more enlightening on a subject that seems to debated a fair amount in such applications and would help put some of those debates to rest.

If I can indeed afford to spend as much time as you on a dyno with as much gear, I will be more than happy to share all the data I come across, but it doesn't seem like a bad chance for you to do it if you are being offered manifolds?

 

i started deleting posts re manifolds in this thread as it is off topic to my project. then i realised that it was me that was the primary door opener on the manifolds... oooops.

so all posts are restored. this thread is about turbos and that will become apparent as we actually get into testing. i have reached my conclusions on manifold design and they are embodied in my manifold. i absolutely believe there are many facets to optimising a manifold but i think another thread would be the ticket.

my manifold may work or not but it is my best current thinking and my interest in my project is turbos.

my apologies to all.

howard

 

so ummm, dyno? lol

interested to see what the ported shroud gt3582r does, since that's what I have.

 

Enough bench racing, more dyno time.

thewird

 

So you don't need an 82R anymore?

 

things are moving forward daily on the turbo comparison. i have an extensive new-mods list for 2010. the engine and T56 trans goes in today and the car will be trailered to Beyond Redline where some final fitting will be done on the downpipes (two needed as the BW has a 4 inch V band outlet) and IC tubes. once finished it will be re-trailered back home for the final finish and then the dyno session.

in an effort to really wring out the turbos i have uprated my FJO HD AI meth system from two 700 to two 1000 CC injectors. i will be running 93 octane and 2000 CC/Min of meth. i also have switched from stock trailing coils to 2 MSD 8207 coils.

i have yet to lay my hands on a GT3582r. it does have to have whatever Sean feels is the proper turbine housing and if it doesn't have the Garrett ported shroud i will just switch it w the GT3574 ported shroud.

i do have a friend in the Green Bay area that has one on his FD and probably can use it if it has the right backend.

i may call my Garrett contact to see if he can find a 2011 GT35 w a billet compressor that i know must surely exist. i would bet money it will be at SEMA. wouldn't that be fun?

hc

 

if I were to purchase say... a PTE 6765 or 6265, would either of those be something you would be interested in testing out if I were to ship it to you?

 

Howard,

what ar exhaust housing u r going to run with gt4094r?