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Heard from my distributor that this is supose to spool up quicker than the Borgwarner ERF, gong to have to order one and test it.
Xona Rotor has implemented innovative features in its XR line of performance turbochargers to enhance performance and durability. Among them is Xona’s proprietary variable-preload ball bearing cartridge system. Traditional bearing systems with insufficient preload can experience ball sliding and scuffing at high shaft speeds, leading to fretting of the bearing races and short bearing life. For expanded details on this groundbreaking improvement, click here:
The bearing housing itself is a fully-machined, high-strength stainless steel component with an extended water jacket. By fully surrounding the turbine seal ring land area, this advanced cooling feature combats heat soakback, preventing piston ring collapse for enhanced durability at high temperatures.
A turbocharger’s bearing system is its heart, and Xona Rotor has left nothing on the table. Xona XR turbochargers use hybrid (ceramic ***** and steel races) ball bearing cartridges unlike those found elsewhere. These high-precision ABEC 7 angular contact ball bearings are made with advanced M62 high-speed powder metal steel races, silicon nitride ceramic ***** and metallic ball cages. No melted ball cages here. Together these features deliver significantly elevated robustness and durability at extreme temperatures compared to conventional ball bearing systems.
Most performance turbochargers today use a single piston ring for sealing the shaft at each end. By contrast, Xona XR turbochargers employ twin rings at both the compressor and turbine ends. This feature dramatically reduces oil leakage and gas intrusion at both ends of the rotating assembly. Furthermore, since the sealing load is spread across two rings, wear rates are reduced and seal life is extended. Complementing this are large-diameter oil slingers incorporated into both ends of the shaft, further reducing splash oil at the piston ring seal location within the bearing cartridge.
The compressor register of the CHRA features an overbuilt compressor backplate and cover interface system that is very tolerant of external loads, limiting structural distortion that can lead to compressor wheel rubbing and premature failure.
At the oil inlet, XR turbochargers offer a choice of 7/16" inverted flare or straight M12x1.25 connections. Built into the oil inlet cavity of the CHRA is a large volume “last ditch” oil filter element that prevents oil contaminants from entering the bearing system and plugging oil passages within the turbocharger. At the other end of the Xona XR’s bearing housing, a modular oil drain flange allows for a variety of bolt spacing.
I'm intrigued. Sounds like a fancy bearing system and some handy compressor sizes but no other info.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..................?
Also, I thought xona was rebranded chinese stuff, no?
That's absolutely false. Xona is a co-op between Forced Performance and Tial. Most of the parts are made in the USA, including the CHRA and exhaust housings. I'm as big of and EFR fanboy as the come, but even the EFRs have a lot of components made in Asia. I've also held both EFR housings and Tial housings - there is no comparison. The Tial housing is much higher quality. Less flash, better finish quality, and lighter. Unfortunately, mapping compressors is very cost prohibitive for non-OEM turbo manufacturers. Yes, it makes turbo selection difficult for users, but that's just how it is. You're not going to get a map from Precision, Turbonetics, etc either.
I would still bet the EFR would out spool the Xona, though. It uses a conventional Inconel turbine which just can match the titanium aluminide EFR turbine in transient and boost threshold.
while it is certainly possible to engineer an excellent cold side (Precision) without a compressor map it really puts the buyer in the dark and lengthens the odds against an exceptional outcome.
in lieu of a map i would want to see a ton of empirical data as to performance. i don't see any and i note that the webpage is circa 2015.
i do think the title of this thread is a bit misleading. while Tial has mention of some sort of joint venture with Xona on their site their direct involvement appears to be that their housings meant for the GT35 with its tiny turbine wheel bolt up. A/R numbers mimic the T3 housing which sure wouldn't balance against the larger compressor wheels. they also don't take advantage of the rotary engine's violent discrete exhaust pulses since all available hotsides are a single input.
given what appears to be a very restrictive hotside, the turbo may very well outspool an EFR for the first Ms. backpressure will then catch up as well as high EGTs and physics takes over acting as a drag.
i have liked Forced Performance so the cold side might be fine but i have grave doubts about a hotside mismatch especially for the rotary.
That's absolutely false. Xona is a co-op between Forced Performance and Tial. Most of the parts are made in the USA, including the CHRA and exhaust housings.
ABEC 7 Bearings are mid-grade stuff at best and something I wouldn't trust on a turbo. Back when growing up and at a local skateboarding shop, I remember ABEC 3 is what all the shittiest boards had, ABEC 7 were cheap enough to just mow a lawn or two, and Bones Bearings (I believe they were Timken based) were the Bee's Knees at easily 4x the price.
The Turbine Housing sizes blow for our application.
The XR 95•67 has a 67.7mm comp inducer and a 67mm turbine exducer. Your EFR 9174 has a 68mm comp inducer and a 64mm turbine exducer. If their turbine sizes blow, why did you buy something even smaller??
Originally Posted by SirLaughsALot
ABEC 7 Bearings are mid-grade stuff at best and something I wouldn't trust on a turbo. Back when growing up and at a local skateboarding shop, I remember ABEC 3 is what all the shittiest boards had, ABEC 7 were cheap enough to just mow a lawn or two, and Bones Bearings (I believe they were Timken based) were the Bee's Knees at easily 4x the price.
The Turbine Housing sizes blow for our application.
The XR 95•67 has a 67.7mm comp inducer and a 67mm turbine exducer. Your EFR 9174 has a 68mm comp inducer and a 64mm turbine exducer. If their turbine sizes blow, why did you buy something even smaller??
I said nothing about the turbine sizes, I said the turbine HOUSING sizes are wrong for the application.
I have an EFR9174 with 1.45 A/R Twin Volute Turbine HOUSING. Not a single volute 1.03 A/R in V-Band trim.
Are you sure the 95*67 isn't just 67.7mm Compressor Inducer and 94mm Compressor Exducer?
Are you sure it's not called 95 due to the 95lbs/min of Airflow on it's non-existent compressor map?
Could honestly be both. 95lbs/min * 67mm Compressor Inducer = 95*67.
It clearly says "Turbine Outlet is 67mm" which to the rest of the world would be the Turbine Inducer, the larger of the two dimensions. That's smaller than the 74mm Inducer of the EFR9174.
Sure as **** would help with a set of dimension, Compressor Map, and MAP pricing. This is just bullshit until we gain real data.
Anyone used one yet? Hand one in my hands a few weeks ago, the finishing was wonderful and it's a very compact turbo for the power claims. Quite light as well. I know nothing about it's performance other than a single guy using it on an M54 swapped E36 who loved it
Furthermore, since the sealing load is spread across two rings, wear rates are reduced and seal life is extended.
....I don't really think that is how it works. It is kind of the opposite of how it works. Seals that are unlubricated will wear faster, unless they are a zero contact labyrinth seal, in which case it doesn't matter if there is one seal or one hundred, wear will not be affected.
i have talked w Xona for the last few years and the dealbreaker for me was the missing divided T4 hotside... i do run a 60 mm Tial wategate on my manifolds. my guy at Tial is Mike Franke. helpful and knowledgeable.
according to Mike, Tial did all the aero on these turbos in Michigan and Forced Performance had no input. i do respect Tial and am mildly surprised they have spent the $$$ for comp maps.
They said earlier in this thread to not trust without compressor maps, but the turbine maps are equally as important to help minimize the number of costly iterations that may be required to finally get it right
but my previous post above was relative to another rotary forum where some less than experienced people were all hyped up on using this particular manufacturer despite various discussions on the different requirements a rotary engine has compared to a reciprocating piston engine, the lack of flow maps, etc. And then when those compressor maps were released later it was even worse than had been suspected.
So to the people that might have been caught up in this, they need to ask their self what was it that made them think this was such a great product? Was it the trendy name; Xona? The flashy photos? The bombastic marketing claims? Because I’ve still yet to see or know of even one rotary engine result using this turbo.
That some people would jump on it so enthusiastically given the overall lack of substance should give cause to ponder on why someone would do that … 🤔
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I'm interested because one of the UHF (Ultra High Flow) design for the exhaust wheel in their 2nd gen turbos. The GTR guys are getting good performance out of them, and they have money to test and play. I held one in my hands, naturally that makes me curious about it.
Without actual values to back it up, it’s all just marketing hyperbole, because how are they measuring it yet can’t produce turbine maps?
and consider this, if the previous turbine wheel was at the super crap level, the alphabet soup version is likely improved to the just plain crap level
try to remember that a wankel still needs 35% more flow on both sides to make the same whp as a piston engine and is also a lot less tolerant to emap
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It has nothing to with that at all, yet not surprising at all either
refer back to my comments in other threads regarding my opinion of your technical ability, that is the true context of my words, it all aligns as such.
otherwise why was I the first person to bump and praise the FD3 carbon wheel covers you’re selling in the FS area? And why even bother apologizing in the previous post here?
The USA political commentary; and labeling it so is being quite generous, of someone in Thailand is of no concern to me. I say what I have say and walk away.
Because what’s to argue? You’re even less adept and informed there than here.
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Yet you never were able to point out where I said something that would make you doubt my technical ability. You pulled the same thing in the E-Gate thread. Ask questions, then say you doubt my abilities, and then high-horse it out.
08-20-18, 06:32 PM
