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New turbo from Tial

Old 08-20-18, 07:32 PM
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New turbo from Tial

Heard from my distributor that this is supose to spool up quicker than the Borgwarner ERF, gong to have to order one and test it.

Xona Rotor has implemented innovative features in its XR line of performance turbochargers to enhance performance and durability. Among them is Xona’s proprietary variable-preload ball bearing cartridge system. Traditional bearing systems with insufficient preload can experience ball sliding and scuffing at high shaft speeds, leading to fretting of the bearing races and short bearing life. For expanded details on this groundbreaking improvement, click here:

Xona Tech : Variable preload bearing system

The bearing housing itself is a fully-machined, high-strength stainless steel component with an extended water jacket. By fully surrounding the turbine seal ring land area, this advanced cooling feature combats heat soakback, preventing piston ring collapse for enhanced durability at high temperatures.

A turbocharger’s bearing system is its heart, and Xona Rotor has left nothing on the table. Xona XR turbochargers use hybrid (ceramic ***** and steel races) ball bearing cartridges unlike those found elsewhere. These high-precision ABEC 7 angular contact ball bearings are made with advanced M62 high-speed powder metal steel races, silicon nitride ceramic ***** and metallic ball cages. No melted ball cages here. Together these features deliver significantly elevated robustness and durability at extreme temperatures compared to conventional ball bearing systems.

Most performance turbochargers today use a single piston ring for sealing the shaft at each end. By contrast, Xona XR turbochargers employ twin rings at both the compressor and turbine ends. This feature dramatically reduces oil leakage and gas intrusion at both ends of the rotating assembly. Furthermore, since the sealing load is spread across two rings, wear rates are reduced and seal life is extended. Complementing this are large-diameter oil slingers incorporated into both ends of the shaft, further reducing splash oil at the piston ring seal location within the bearing cartridge.

The compressor register of the CHRA features an overbuilt compressor backplate and cover interface system that is very tolerant of external loads, limiting structural distortion that can lead to compressor wheel rubbing and premature failure.

At the oil inlet, XR turbochargers offer a choice of 7/16" inverted flare or straight M12x1.25 connections. Built into the oil inlet cavity of the CHRA is a large volume “last ditch” oil filter element that prevents oil contaminants from entering the bearing system and plugging oil passages within the turbocharger. At the other end of the Xona XR’s bearing housing, a modular oil drain flange allows for a variety of bolt spacing.



Xona Rotor - XR Turbochargers
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Old 08-20-18, 08:20 PM
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I'm intrigued. Sounds like a fancy bearing system and some handy compressor sizes but no other info.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..................?
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Old 08-21-18, 06:54 AM
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Don't trust turbos without compressor maps.
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Old 08-21-18, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by arghx View Post
Don't trust turbos without compressor maps.
^This!

Also, I thought xona was rebranded chinese stuff, no?
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Old 08-21-18, 09:13 AM
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I don't think Tial would damage their name with cheap stuff
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Old 08-21-18, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by KNONFS View Post
^This!

Also, I thought xona was rebranded chinese stuff, no?
That's absolutely false. Xona is a co-op between Forced Performance and Tial. Most of the parts are made in the USA, including the CHRA and exhaust housings. I'm as big of and EFR fanboy as the come, but even the EFRs have a lot of components made in Asia. I've also held both EFR housings and Tial housings - there is no comparison. The Tial housing is much higher quality. Less flash, better finish quality, and lighter. Unfortunately, mapping compressors is very cost prohibitive for non-OEM turbo manufacturers. Yes, it makes turbo selection difficult for users, but that's just how it is. You're not going to get a map from Precision, Turbonetics, etc either.

I would still bet the EFR would out spool the Xona, though. It uses a conventional Inconel turbine which just can match the titanium aluminide EFR turbine in transient and boost threshold.
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Old 08-21-18, 10:36 AM
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"Don't trust turbos without compressor maps."

while it is certainly possible to engineer an excellent cold side (Precision) without a compressor map it really puts the buyer in the dark and lengthens the odds against an exceptional outcome.
in lieu of a map i would want to see a ton of empirical data as to performance. i don't see any and i note that the webpage is circa 2015.

i do think the title of this thread is a bit misleading. while Tial has mention of some sort of joint venture with Xona on their site their direct involvement appears to be that their housings meant for the GT35 with its tiny turbine wheel bolt up. A/R numbers mimic the T3 housing which sure wouldn't balance against the larger compressor wheels. they also don't take advantage of the rotary engine's violent discrete exhaust pulses since all available hotsides are a single input.

given what appears to be a very restrictive hotside, the turbo may very well outspool an EFR for the first Ms. backpressure will then catch up as well as high EGTs and physics takes over acting as a drag.

i have liked Forced Performance so the cold side might be fine but i have grave doubts about a hotside mismatch especially for the rotary.
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Old 08-21-18, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Shainiac View Post
That's absolutely false. Xona is a co-op between Forced Performance and Tial. Most of the parts are made in the USA, including the CHRA and exhaust housings.
Good to know, thanks for the info!
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Old 08-21-18, 12:38 PM
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ABEC 7 Bearings are mid-grade stuff at best and something I wouldn't trust on a turbo. Back when growing up and at a local skateboarding shop, I remember ABEC 3 is what all the shittiest boards had, ABEC 7 were cheap enough to just mow a lawn or two, and Bones Bearings (I believe they were Timken based) were the Bee's Knees at easily 4x the price.

The Turbine Housing sizes blow for our application.

No Compressor Map.

#FakeNews
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Old 08-21-18, 01:24 PM
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The XR 95•67 has a 67.7mm comp inducer and a 67mm turbine exducer. Your EFR 9174 has a 68mm comp inducer and a 64mm turbine exducer. If their turbine sizes blow, why did you buy something even smaller??

Originally Posted by SirLaughsALot View Post
ABEC 7 Bearings are mid-grade stuff at best and something I wouldn't trust on a turbo. Back when growing up and at a local skateboarding shop, I remember ABEC 3 is what all the shittiest boards had, ABEC 7 were cheap enough to just mow a lawn or two, and Bones Bearings (I believe they were Timken based) were the Bee's Knees at easily 4x the price.

The Turbine Housing sizes blow for our application.

No Compressor Map.

#FakeNews
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Old 08-22-18, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Shainiac View Post
The XR 95•67 has a 67.7mm comp inducer and a 67mm turbine exducer. Your EFR 9174 has a 68mm comp inducer and a 64mm turbine exducer. If their turbine sizes blow, why did you buy something even smaller??
I said nothing about the turbine sizes, I said the turbine HOUSING sizes are wrong for the application.

I have an EFR9174 with 1.45 A/R Twin Volute Turbine HOUSING. Not a single volute 1.03 A/R in V-Band trim.

Are you sure the 95*67 isn't just 67.7mm Compressor Inducer and 94mm Compressor Exducer?
Are you sure it's not called 95 due to the 95lbs/min of Airflow on it's non-existent compressor map?
Could honestly be both. 95lbs/min * 67mm Compressor Inducer = 95*67.

It clearly says "Turbine Outlet is 67mm" which to the rest of the world would be the Turbine Inducer, the larger of the two dimensions. That's smaller than the 74mm Inducer of the EFR9174.

Sure as **** would help with a set of dimension, Compressor Map, and MAP pricing. This is just bullshit until we gain real data.
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