2Lucky2tha7

iTrader: (3)

Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone had any input about Precisions 5976E MFS turbo.
The goal has been to find a good budget turbo for street application - so minimal response and lag time are important. And the above mentioned turbo sits at the limit of the current budget. The goal is really just 300 - 350 rwhp. It'll be for a 1st gen with an RX4 13B block that has an aggressive streetport and 9.2:1(?) compression rotors. It will only be running pumpgas (so no water/meth injection). It has an undivided t4 manifold and I'm limited to a 38mm wastegate size (currently still has the Turbonetics evolution wastegate on it). I was looking around for anything between a T04E 57 trim or 60 trim (with a stage 5 turbine wheel and being a full T04 build) up to a 60-1, but those are hard to find (especially anything rebuilt or even used in good condition). I know these are "older" tech turbos, but I'm fine with that. I'm even open to a good used turbo, but I can't find anything out there. I've had great input from a few people I've talked to, but my brother wants to stay within a budget, so choices are very limited.
Open to suggestions.
Thanks.

lastphaseofthis

iTrader: (8)

s200 7670 is new turbo tech and meets your goals, but you would likely need a new manifold, which may be the case for other turbos u want to mount on your exsisting manifold..
you can get the s200sxe 7670 for 705 shipped...

blue TII has the EFR version of the 7670, and put down 300flt of tq at 3k, 400tq at 4k, and 400hp... his machine is a beast using a 2k turbo.. so far no body has used the new s200...

the efr version has a lighter turbine wheel..
the material is gamma titanium? the s200 uses regular iconal,
the efr has IWG and BOV build in. plus the Ti gamma wheel and the turbo cost 2k...

it maybe fit your manifold, but i wouldn't count on it..

it would be nice if you could go to a turbo store and try them on for size...

kevinbtz

iTrader: (4)

I built a car with a t4 58/65 ceramic bb and had to send it back multiple times before the engine was broken in. At 21psi it is pretty much maxed out with a .8x A/R and the response is decent but not as good as I wanted. I will probably be upgrading him to a EFR or SXE in the future as the bearings are making noises again in the precision again. The SXE 7670 as mentioned above would be one on the top of my list for your goals

2Lucky2tha7

iTrader: (3)

Lastphaseofthis, thanks for the input - and I agree that the BW lineup is excellent (and I even recommended an s363 with a divided 1.00 housing to a friend of mine), but my concern with the s200sxe lineup - namely the 7670 - regards the exhaust side of it. Generally that lineup uses the t3 housing from what I've found so far, and although the compressor side of it is perfect, the exhaust side of it would choke the top end (even Elliott from Turblown said this would be the case) - and being that the turbine wheel has a 70mm inducer and 61mm exducer. I've read that the smallest exducer one can get away with on a rotary would be 62mm, and that in terms of sizing, that anything closest to a P-trim wheel works best - which would be around a 74mm inducer/ 65mm exducer. Also, the price you mentioned sounds like it's for a core that doesn't include the turbine housing (which I believe adds another $200(?) or so.) I also know that the EFR series is amazing - but it's too far out of in terms of cost.
I appreciate your input, but I can't see how I could make a Borgwarner setup cost efficient at this point. This has been a big part of the difficulty in finding the right turbo, because although I originally wanted to go with an s360, that would necessitate a larger wastegate, which would then require a new manifold. And all in all it would atleast double the overall cost. Not only that, but even an s360 would be oversized for this application, and I have since decided not to go that route either. I know the current turbos are much better technologically speaking, but I'm not necessarily looking for that, as well as higher horsepower figures. I know that I can make a well sized t04 style turbo work good with this setup (as it has once before with a Turbonetics T04B from what I can vaguely recall) and not have to change out the manifold and wastegate. I really like the Turblown TDX57 and I think it would be perfect, but my brother is hoping to find something at a lower cost. I've also decided that a divided 1.00 housing would work best as well - even though it would be mated to an undivided housing. I was told this would work better than using an undivided with the current setup as it will spool up better and the newer turbine housings having nickel in them will allow the divided to keep from deforming over time unlike the older cast iron turbine housings.
I was also planning on sticking with using a journal bearing turbo.

2Lucky2tha7

iTrader: (3)

I found this thread about the 7670 sxe:
https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo...-57mm-1092110/
Since this was also the case already with the last turbo (older style BW T04B), I have to pass on the s200 series. A few of the reasons why I was interested in this particular turbo (Precision 5976), is that the cost was under $800, It uses a 59/76mm compressor wheel and 74/65mm turbine wheel, and it's said to be very efficient. Outside of that, the closest thing I recently found were 2 sites that allow you to custom build your own Turbonetics turbo - in which case I'm thinking would be a T04E, T04B or 60-1 setup of sorts. But that costs about $900 + shipping - and that's already pretty much at the cost of a TDX57. In any case, my only experience has been with the older T04B turbos with this car, so I have no other personal experience with any of the other options that may work better for a decent price...
I should mention that up here at a higher altitude (6000' - 10,000'+), whatever turbo I use will spool an extra 1 - 2% for every 1000' increase in altitude. So I gotta keep in mind that whatever turbo is used will be spooling an extra 10% - 20% faster than at sea level. Not only that, but I have to run a bit more boost up here (15 psi on the boost gauge is actually reading 12 psi absolute pressure on the Megasquirt ecu). So the turbo will generally be working harder all in all.

lastphaseofthis

iTrader: (8)

no actually.. the turbo core is 505 and the turbine is 200. free shipping. that is what i am saying. i hear you on the exhaust choke down.. but..sir you said..
you're going to have to make up your mind... the 7670 is perfect for 350-400.
you go bigger turbo you'll loose spool time.. but heres the 8374 in SXE

BorgWarner S300SX-E Super-Core UNIVERSAL

and the turbine

BorgWarner S300SX3 Turbine Housing UNIVERSAL

$831.55

shipped.
if yall find em cheaper post em up.

2Lucky2tha7

iTrader: (3)

An s200sxe that can be had for around $715 is definitely a great deal, no doubt. And the links you provided are the best deal I've seen so far. However, since I've already overspun a turbo already here at high altitude (it had a 62mm exducer and only running 15 psi at the most), I need to be cautious about sizing, and thus been doing my best to do my homework per say. Because from experience, asking around and researching, not only do turbos have to work harder at high altitude due to the air being thinner and with a lower atmospheric pressure (3-4 psi less), but there is also more turbo lag (around 500 rpms slower give or take). Yes, it seems the compressor side would be close to perfect (though I'd prefer a 58mm or possibly a 59mm inducer at the max), but the alternative of using an s300 series (s360) just won't work for a few reasons. 1st, it's too much turbo for the HP range I'm shooting for. Although the s360 uses a 60mm compressor inducer (which would work), it also uses an 83.5mm exducer which is too much for what I want (hence me mentioning that I can't use it). 2nd, it would require a much larger wastegate, and 3rd because I don't think it will physically fit without hitting the frame rail. If I WERE to go the BW route, the only plausible option would be the s257sxe with a 1.00 housing. But like I said, I remain uncertain about the size of the turbine wheel being too small - especially at this altitude where turbos have to work much harder to achieve the same boost as at sea level. This is why I originally said that I don't think I can find a way to make a BW turbo to work for this application - hence having pretty much made up my mind about not being able to use these turbos as I can't find an in-between. If the s200 hypothetically had a 65mm exducer turbine wheel (or possibly even as low as 63mm), I would be sold on it and I would give it a shot. But unfortunately it doesn't and instead has a 61mm turbine exducer. There's just such a large gap between the largest s200 turbo and the smallest s300 turbo, and what I'm looking for lies in between those two. Namely, the fact that the s200 has a 61mm turbine exducer, whereas the s300 has a 68mm turbine exducer. And what I'd prefer would be a 64mm-65mm exducer. Don't get me wrong, I really do appreciate your input, but the right size BW turbo that I want just doesn't seem to exist. This is what led me to finding out about the Precision 5976 and seeing if anyone had any experience regarding it. I know that the older Precision turbos had problems and need to be avoided - and I have zero interest in those, but I heard the latest ones were good. Again, I'm looking at journal bearing only - for longevity. And unless someone can give me some input to persuade me otherwise regarding the s257sxe, I just can't really see it as a viable option for me. This is why I've been having to look around elsewhere..

silverTRD

iTrader: (36)

I know it takes more power and stress on the turbo to make similar power at altitude but I didn't think it was as bad as you're saying. Talk to member lookatme, he is very knowledgeable and also at altitude and perhaps can give you some advice.

2Lucky2tha7

iTrader: (3)

Thanks silverTRD, we've been talking and he's been very helpful so far and suggested I go bigger as the higher altitude does indeed put more strain on the turbo (as not only does it have to spool faster, but you have to run higher relative boost). Still in the process of figuring out what will work best within the budget and limitations however.