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Kenne Bell Boost A Pump

Old 08-24-17, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Howard Coleman CPR View Post
Jim Bell of Kenne Bell got back to me yesterday re the BAP turbo rotary app as regarding the new high flowing Walbro pumps.

while they have moved the BAP to a 17 volt minimum output which is too much for the pumps (sustained) he indicated that when ordering a BAP....

ask for Mike.

tell him you want the 13.5 V (base) BAP/HowardColeman turbo Mazda option.

set your pump for just under 20% gain and you will have a happy pump and the output will go from around 390 to 570 L/H at 60 psi.

a simple solution to most fuel supply issues considering the pump is very close to a drop in.

do not forget to switch to a 30 A fuse.

hardwire around the OE connector at the tank.

Howard
After reading your very helpful thread,

I am about to pull the trigger on a kennel bell boost a pump 17v (with the dial regulator which means it can be set up at 16v)

This unit is rated 20A. My fuel pump is the supra denso fuel pump.

What do you mean by "do not forget to switch to a 30 A fuse" ?

Should I simply switch the 20a fuse to 30a fuse into the kennel bell hd fuse holder?

Or should I go with the kennel bell boost a pump rated 40A...?

thanks for your time

Last edited by MILOS7; 08-24-17 at 01:49 AM.
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Old 10-04-17, 06:20 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by MILOS7 View Post
After reading your very helpful thread,

I am about to pull the trigger on a kennel bell boost a pump 17v (with the dial regulator which means it can be set up at 16v)

This unit is rated 20A. My fuel pump is the supra denso fuel pump.

What do you mean by "do not forget to switch to a 30 A fuse" ?

Should I simply switch the 20a fuse to 30a fuse into the kennel bell hd fuse holder?

Or should I go with the kennel bell boost a pump rated 40A...?

thanks for your time
Do we have flow numbers for what the voltage increase will do for flow on the Supra pump? I'm considering doing likewise to you...

Nick
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Old 10-04-17, 08:43 AM
  #28  
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don't hv flow at my fingertips but i can tell you the Supra pump worked perfectly at just over 500 SAE rotary rw for 4 years at a +20% gain setting.
somewhere in the Kenne Bell Tech Section are numbers as to output V volt gain and they are significant.
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Old 10-04-17, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Howard Coleman CPR View Post
don't hv flow at my fingertips but i can tell you the Supra pump worked perfectly at just over 500 SAE rotary rw for 4 years at a +20% gain setting.
somewhere in the Kenne Bell Tech Section are numbers as to output V volt gain and they are significant.
That's a good testimony! I'll look into it, thanks Howard.

Nick
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Old 10-06-17, 02:59 AM
  #30  
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After reading Monsterbox's thread about his 16V alternator, would this be a better option that yields multiple benefits across the board with limited to no downside?
Better for the Fuel Pump
Better for the Coils
Better for radiator fans
Better for charging
Fear of stock hair thin wiring going bad?
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Old 10-07-17, 11:00 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by silentblu View Post
After reading Monsterbox's thread about his 16V alternator, would this be a better option that yields multiple benefits across the board with limited to no downside?
Better for the Fuel Pump
Better for the Coils
Better for radiator fans
Better for charging
Fear of stock hair thin wiring going bad?
Your post confuses me. Are you stating the 16v alternator is superior or the Boost A Pump is superior?

The way way your post reads, I would think you're listing all the benefits of the alternator, but then you state what seems to be an obvious drawback that the alternator may strain the factory wiring...?

Explain yourself man! :-)

Nick
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Old 10-08-17, 03:06 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Brilliant7-LFC View Post
Your post confuses me. Are you stating the 16v alternator is superior or the Boost A Pump is superior?

The way way your post reads, I would think you're listing all the benefits of the alternator, but then you state what seems to be an obvious drawback that the alternator may strain the factory wiring...?

Explain yourself man! :-)

Nick
Yes, you are correct, I am trying to probe around to see if anyone can confirm my benefit/drawback.

I postulate that a 16V alternator would be superior to a boost a pump because:
Your fuel pump will always be at 16V (replaces/removes the need for a boost a pump)
Your coils will always be at 16V (replaces/removes the need for a boost a spark or HKS twin power)
Your fans will be "supercharged" with the extra volts for added CFM
Your battery will remain topped off because of the extra voltage/amperage (getting a higher voltage alternator, you might as well increase the amps)

I do understand that increasing the voltage has the potential to damage the OEM thin wiring

Now this is specific to my build
I have had a rebuilt OEM alternator, and also an IRP 140Amp alternator (currently in the car for the past 2-3 years).
I have no electrical issues, but from my logs I have never seen 14V, on either alternator. Relocated battery to the bin with 0 gauge ground and 1/2gauge supply. Added motor and transmission grounds as well.
So in the interest of fixing things that arn't broken I was interested in a higher voltage alternator for the postulations above.

Last edited by silentblu; 10-08-17 at 03:10 AM.
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Old 10-09-17, 11:48 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by silentblu View Post
Yes, you are correct, I am trying to probe around to see if anyone can confirm my benefit/drawback.

I postulate that a 16V alternator would be superior to a boost a pump because:
Your fuel pump will always be at 16V (replaces/removes the need for a boost a pump)
Your coils will always be at 16V (replaces/removes the need for a boost a spark or HKS twin power)
Your fans will be "supercharged" with the extra volts for added CFM
Your battery will remain topped off because of the extra voltage/amperage (getting a higher voltage alternator, you might as well increase the amps)

I do understand that increasing the voltage has the potential to damage the OEM thin wiring

Now this is specific to my build
I have had a rebuilt OEM alternator, and also an IRP 140Amp alternator (currently in the car for the past 2-3 years).
I have no electrical issues, but from my logs I have never seen 14V, on either alternator. Relocated battery to the bin with 0 gauge ground and 1/2gauge supply. Added motor and transmission grounds as well.
So in the interest of fixing things that arn't broken I was interested in a higher voltage alternator for the postulations above.
I suppose the real crux here is whether or not an increase from 12v to 16v will damage the factory wiring throughout the car. Because, there's obviously huge benefits to a 16v alternator from a performance standpoint, but the drawbacks will be harder to test for I'd imagine.

Sidebar on the IRP 140amp alternator, have you ever tested it's output at idle compared to stock? I've asked Igor maybe 100 times and he has never given me the answer. To me, the biggest reason to upgrade to the higher amperage alternator relates to us using underdriven accessories and need more output at low revs in order to compensate for that. Any input there?

Nick
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Old 10-09-17, 05:00 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Brilliant7-LFC View Post
I suppose the real crux here is whether or not an increase from 12v to 16v will damage the factory wiring throughout the car. Because, there's obviously huge benefits to a 16v alternator from a performance standpoint, but the drawbacks will be harder to test for I'd imagine.

Sidebar on the IRP 140amp alternator, have you ever tested it's output at idle compared to stock? I've asked Igor maybe 100 times and he has never given me the answer. To me, the biggest reason to upgrade to the higher amperage alternator relates to us using underdriven accessories and need more output at low revs in order to compensate for that. Any input there?

Nick
Technically in stock form 14.1-14.7 is where the alternator is supposed to charge at from the FSM. So the real crux is whether or not an increase from lets average it to 14.4V to 16V will damage the factory wiring throughout the car.

I have not had the IRP 140Amp tested, purchased it as at the "maximum" I would run out of amps or getting close to. Also wanted a spare.
I do have an underdrive main pulley, which would mean my alternator would spin more then the stock main pulley. No difference in performance from the stock alternator and IRP140 that I recall.

Excessive amperage can make you an external adjustable voltage regulator for an added $120, or set it at 16V static. This with their 200amp alternator was quite pricey.
I had intended to run it at 15V if I pulled the trigger on the adjustable.
The 16V static voltage 200amp alt uses the same alternator housing.
Through the years, I have seen through various places that 140amp is the max recommended for the stock housing for reliability/longevity. Not sure how Excessive pulls this off, but they are the go to guys for high performance alternators.
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Old 10-10-17, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by silentblu View Post
Technically in stock form 14.1-14.7 is where the alternator is supposed to charge at from the FSM. So the real crux is whether or not an increase from lets average it to 14.4V to 16V will damage the factory wiring throughout the car.....
The 16 volt alternator is a bad idea for a normal street driven car that sees longer periods of use. It might be a good solution for a purpose built drag race car or a car show queen that only runs for a few minutes at a time, but for something that actually gets driven regularly and for 20+ minute stretches then 16 volts becomes problematic.

Trashing the wiring in the car is the least of your concerns, as that's not likely to happen. What you will trash, however, is your expensive battery--especially if its AGM battery. Generally, 15 volts is about maximum for any duration of time otherwise you will damage the plates and lose capacity and lifespan of your battery. Lead-acid batteries are a bit more forgiving but will eventually fail as well. Also note that factory alternators have a temperature compensation gradient built in them to adjust the charging voltage to conditions; they will generally start cold in the 14v range and taper down into the 13 volt range once warmed up. (If you've relocated your battery to a cooler place in your car, this may be too low to keep the battery fully charged. There's no need to change the alternator or pay $200 for a custom regulator when you can safely raise the voltage on your OEM unit for pennies. I wrote at length about proper charging of AGM type batteries and how to achieve it elsewhere on this forum; please search.)

When you apply more voltage to a circuit, a corresponding increase in current (amperage) occurs in most unregulated devices. What this means is that an increase from, say, 14 volts to 16 volts--a 14.3% increase in voltage will result in a corresponding increase in current through the device. Power is the product of volts multiplied by amps (power is a square law function) and therefore our 14.3% increase in voltage results in a 30.6% increase in power input to your load.

If you were to operate your electrical system continuously at 16 volts, what you will have is a system that's operating substantially out of its design conditions and will result in overheating, overloading, reduced lifespan and premature failure of system components.

Let's review:
  • Coils would likely saturate and overheat unless your reduce the dwell time to compensate;
  • Fans will pull additional current, operating at a heavier than designed load, which may result in overheating and/or reduced lifespan;
  • All incandescent bulbs will experience substantially reduced life, burning out sooner (although they will be brighter);
  • All electronics will experience increased power dissipation (in the form of heat) and some electronic components will encounter increased stresses;
  • In the case of your fuel pump, it will continuously try to pump harder--resulting in accelerated pump wear and additional heat which will raise your fuel temperature; and,
  • most wiring will be largely unaffected, although switches and relays could be impacted; as could marginal or poor connections.
As to high output alternators, they are just another hot-rodded part operating outside of their design parameters; they can solve specific problems under some situations; however, they can create problems for others, and so should be judiciously applied--and not installed as some random upgrade. Or, in other words, if it ain't broke--you might just break it by fixing it.

Bottom line: 15 volts (continuous) is about max for these 12 volt systems.

Last edited by Speed of light; 10-10-17 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 10-10-17, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Speed of light View Post
Bottom line: 15 volts (continuous) is about max for these 12 volt systems.
Thanks for the input on 15V, when writing my last post I did not recall why I wanted to run 15V if I purchased an adjustable regulator, the AGM battery charging you mentioned reminded me as I have the same setup as Speed of Light PC925 in the passenger bin, and will be look into adding the 1n4001 diode to raise the voltage to reach ~15V

Here is the post Speed of light mentioned for readers/people following along
https://www.rx7club.com/20b-forum-95.../#post11920506

And diagram/wiring to make sense of the post.
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Old 08-14-18, 07:01 AM
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How would the WALBRO HELLCAT 525LPH F90000285 pump with a bap fair? Elliot tells me it should do 500whp safely on e85, 600+ on pump. I would suspect using a bap would take it's capabilities above 600 on e85 and above 750 on pump. Anyone consider this new pump yet ?
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