When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Mid 400's on a dynojet with that size efr and street ports will require 20+lbs of boost (most likely alot more approaching 500). That much boost, most here will advise the addition of an AI system.
I think a pump gas tune for the street (15 psi) and an E85 tune for high boost when you want it all is the best way to go these days. That's pretty much what I've chosen to do( pump gas and AI for street @20 ish) with the efr a few sizes up from your selection and Ethanol 1 for whatever mine can take.
What shop is doing your build?
I’m in for AI.
I’m also ok for not hitting 500+ as long as I have reliable power and engine.
the build will be able to cross over to E 85. I want to hold off on that to see what it can do.
Mid 400's on a dynojet with that size efr and street ports will require 20+lbs of boost (most likely alot more approaching 500). That much boost, most here will advise the addition of an AI system.
I think a pump gas tune for the street (15 psi) and an E85 tune for high boost when you want it all is the best way to go these days. That's pretty much what I've chosen to do( pump gas and AI for street @20 ish) with the efr a few sizes up from your selection and Ethanol 1 for whatever mine can take.
What shop is doing your build?
Thanks for the input.
I want to try and get as much as possible with pump, yet be "safe". I know that sound like an oxymoron, but I am sure you and other understand what I am saying.
With regards to E85, are people using what's at the pump IE 76? Chevron stations have her in So Cal.
I will most likely have AI added during the build as I like the idea of having that available.
With Haltech I am assuming that I will be able to store a few different tunes for the car. IE: Non AI tune, AI tune, E85 tune and E85 AI tune. Is this correct? O ya a "Smog Tune". Once smogged I will only need this if I sell down the road as I have a house in a county that doesn't not require smog during ownership.
The shop I sat with was DNA. I liked talking with Louie and received a good vibe.
One last question/statement, When I started the planning and conversion form twin to single I went with GT3574 A-spec kit (82mm 35R compressor and a 74mm) as my goal was 400-450 no porting to the wheels. Back then (about 10 years ago) this was said to be achievable on pump back then. Now it seems it is not. what changed?
The need for multiple tunes is kind of pointless with modern technology imo. Water meth will give you enough knock resistance and I think E85 might not even be necessary. (Howard Coleman has a great thread on AI in the AI section)
With the Haltech and a Flex Fuel sensor, you can scale boost duty cycles, fueling, and ignition timing so the ecu will take care of everything from pump 91 all the way to e85. Make sure you have E85 compatible premix as well.
Lots of things have changed since 10 years ago. I believe the only options were the Power FC and the M800 Motec systems for rotaries. Ecus, shared knowledge, fuels, injector technology, ignition tech, and turbo technologies are vastly different in today's world. I believe most people who wanted big power back in the day used oversized turbos and ran low boost versus today where there really is no sense in running low boost as to keep in the efficiency ranges.
The need for multiple tunes is kind of pointless with modern technology imo. Water meth will give you enough knock resistance and I think E85 might not even be necessary. (Howard Coleman has a great thread on AI in the AI section)
With the Haltech and a Flex Fuel sensor, you can scale boost duty cycles, fueling, and ignition timing so the ecu will take care of everything from pump 91 all the way to e85. Make sure you have E85 compatible premix as well.
Lots of things have changed since 10 years ago. I believe the only options were the Power FC and the M800 Motec systems for rotaries. Ecus, shared knowledge, fuels, injector technology, ignition tech, and turbo technologies are vastly different in today's world. I believe most people who wanted big power back in the day used oversized turbos and ran low boost versus today where there really is no sense in running low boost as to keep in the efficiency ranges.
Thank for the input. With regards to E85 my set will be able to handle both pump and E85.
I am seeing a dramatic difference from 10 years ago to now with sets.
My build will be with DNA. I will run E85 with the option to run pump as well.
I was scheduled to drop car off today but there were scheduling conflicts. Car will now be dropped of in March as I will not have time to drop off in February.
Parts have been ordered and received with more parts coming. Turbo being ordered Monday.
Car was delivered two weeks ago to DNA. Talking with Louie it is looking like a half bridge port and looking at a different turbo. Louie will be looking to see if my intercooler is big enough for the power we are looking at.If not new inter cooler. Will also convert to RX8 A/C compressor and condenser.
the one thing you might consider for the BP is asking them not to extend the bridge opening so far to the closing end of the intake cycle. Imo that’s been overlooked some for a streetable BP application. Because even though they may look equally positioned on the closed timing end, the bridge ends up closing later than the adjacent main port due to it’s position relative to the rotor. It’s one thing to have overlap at idle, it’s another for the compression cycle to be blowing back through the bridge opening into the port runner. You can get away with that at higher rpm/velocity/momentum, but not at idle.
.
the one thing you might consider for the BP is asking them not to extend the bridge opening so far to the closing end of the intake cycle. Imo that’s been overlooked some for a streetable BP application. Because even though they may look equally positioned on the closed timing end, the bridge ends up closing later than the adjacent main port due to it’s position relative to the rotor. It’s one thing to have overlap at idle, it’s another for the compression cycle to be blowing back through the bridge opening into the port runner. You can get away with that at higher rpm/velocity/momentum, but not at idle.
.
Is this something to worry about with a half bridge?
In general, semiPP is for 600+ whp and/or extending the high rpm operating range. You could make it smaller, but regardless it’s going to create substantial intake/exhaust timing overlap and all that goes with it. If you’ll be under 550 whp / 8000 rpm then there really is no need to be dealing with racing engine shortcomings on the street.
In general, semiPP is for 600+ whp and/or extending the high rpm operating range. You could make it smaller, but regardless it’s going to create substantial intake/exhaust timing overlap and all that goes with it. If you’ll be under 550 whp / 8000 rpm then there really is no need to be dealing with racing engine shortcomings on the street.
so Immagonna get off this dog chasing it’s tail merry-go-round and wish you the best with whatever you eventually decide to do.
.
revisiting that post shows a different perspective with regards to Semi P Port and mentioned above. Researching last night Semi P would do great for his RPM runs (8k plus) Seeing this is mostly a street car Semi P my not fit the build evening if I run cooler apex seals with it.
Also when I was asking the semi p port question about a year ago I was looking at options and seeing if semi p would be worth it.
that only signifies what I just posted in your other thread about the ability to technically discern the information
not trying to be derogatory or put you down in any way, but rather as also in the reply of the other thread; since you acknowledged having a builder and if you then trust that person’s ability you should instead lean on them to advise you accordingly. They can explain all this and likely in a way that you can come to an understanding of it better one on one rather than text on a forum with differing viewpoints. Also that person working with you directly may also perceive better on his end what is acceptable for you than we can here. Because street vs race engine manners is often highly subjective to each person.
.
street vs race engine manners are often highly subjective to each person.
+1
also for a race car, you really only care about how fast it is, which is nice because its simple. you change something, and it either gets faster or slower, and you don't care about anything else.
in a street car, it doesn't matter how fast it is, you can't measure it. everything else though is important. how loud is it? does it make you smell bad? also on the street you can pick your power curve, the two fun ones are huge throttle response, which is kind of what the stock setup is like, or you can go for the big turbo lag and then it launches into space type. they are different, but both are fun (potentially in 2023 you get both). in 2023 if the tuner is any good, and you let them have enough time to tune the thing, the manners should be all about the same, no matter what. it should start hot and cold and idle on its own, and should drive like a normal car. even if you did a Bridgeport
that only signifies what I just posted in your other thread about the ability to technically discern the information
not trying to be derogatory or put you down in any way, but rather as also in the reply of the other thread; since you acknowledged having a builder and if you then trust that person’s ability you should instead lean on them to advise you accordingly. They can explain all this and likely in a way that you can come to an understanding of it better one on one rather than text on a forum with differing viewpoints. Also that person working with you directly may also perceive better on his end what is acceptable for you than we can here. Because street vs race engine manners is often highly subjective to each person.
.
Well you are coming off as being derogatory. Mean it or not you are.
AS far as having a builder like most do on the forum, I ask questions her as they come to mind to get other view points. I ask to learn as I can. I ask as I may come up with other questions to ask my builder.
I am confident with my builder and ultimately will discus the final build with him. That being said, Me asking various questions on a forum does not limit my trust in my builder nor does it mean I ask worthless questions. Im hear to learn as Rotaries are not my profession.
You are correct there are different view points. And that is were I like to get involved in to learn the different view points and why people for example say large street port with pumps gas no AI are hitting 600 plus no worries. From what I have read and learned this is a dangerous combo. Yet there are people who are adamant it is perfectly fine.
also for a race car, you really only care about how fast it is, which is nice because its simple. you change something, and it either gets faster or slower, and you don't care about anything else.
in a street car, it doesn't matter how fast it is, you can't measure it. everything else though is important. how loud is it? does it make you smell bad? also on the street you can pick your power curve, the two fun ones are huge throttle response, which is kind of what the stock setup is like, or you can go for the big turbo lag and then it launches into space type. they are different, but both are fun (potentially in 2023 you get both). in 2023 if the tuner is any good, and you let them have enough time to tune the thing, the manners should be all about the same, no matter what. it should start hot and cold and idle on its own, and should drive like a normal car. even if you did a Bridgeport
My goal is that, a car that has around 550 wrhp that drives nice. Has smooth transition from primary to secondary injectors. Brap Brap Brap does not bother me. Smell I would only worry about when running pump gas, which would only be time to time or if E85 is not available.
The idea behind the half bridge is to achieve the power at the same time not have to hit high boost level (25 + psi). Im looking to achieve power level hitting 22 PSI. Engine built to handle more, but not driving in that manor.
My goal is that, a car that has around 550 wrhp that drives nice. Has smooth transition from primary to secondary injectors. Brap Brap Brap does not bother me. Smell I would only worry about when running pump gas, which would only be time to time or if E85 is not available.
The idea behind the half bridge is to achieve the power at the same time not have to hit high boost level (25 + psi). Im looking to achieve power level hitting 22 PSI. Engine built to handle more, but not driving in that manor.
You are also going to need a transmission to handle 550 rwhp..... so add another 5-15k on top of your engine build.
I just call it like I see it, but to be fair I’m not beyond being mistaken nor admitting to it when it’s clear to me that I am. You might consider it yourself. That said, since it seems you’re of age then it stands as stated.
Xtreme Rotaries version, I suppose two 1/4 bridges = 1/2 bridge
Even targa cars only on hard semi-slicks or treated wet tyres kill OS-G gearboxes making something close to genuine ~450rwhp, I fully expect my OSG gearset will become a paperweight/clutch aligning tool for someone else at some point.
Now if you have terrible shocks, rubbish tyres and only hook up in 4th gear with "550" miniature ponies from a dynojet, the box will probably last a lot longer.
08-28-21, 10:18 PM
