swif

iTrader: (4)

So it been at least 15 years from when I started to work on my single tube conversion. Time and money have been problems. I am about ready to pull the trigger. This time I am looking for a shop to do the work as this will take out the time factory of me doing the work as well as making mistakes leading to more time spent. Money will be in hand in about a month as I have been saving over the years.

Due to the car sitting for so long my original plan of 400+ to the wheels with stock engine has ended due to engine needing to be rebuild due to not running.

My goal is to have something north of 550 wrhp that will be able to be driven a few times a week. and to drive on extended drives every few months (Las Vegas run from Orange County CA).

Here are some key parts I have;

GT3574 A-spec kit (82mm 35R compressor and a 74mm)
Knight Sport V-mount kit
injector dynamic 750 Primary, 2000 Secondary
HKS twin power
Areomotive 340 stealth pump
CJ motor sport fuel rail kit
GZ lower intake
Power FC

I am looking to go either half bridge port or full bridge so looking for input on shops in OC or around OC. I am thinking of changing turbos to a ball bearing. I want to have the fuel tank baffled. Is Power FC still a doable engine management system? Also want to add AI, water meth mix.

Also toying with the idea of a 6 speed, but what I see is most do this for piston engines or see back and forth gripping on threads or the cost is ridiculous. I tried to follow links in threads but most if not all don't work.

Thanks for your honest input.

newtgomez

Bigger ports mean worse mpg and also more noise. A street port and bigger turbo might be your best bet. The ID1050X works as well and also gives you even more head room. I had a 1050/2200 set up on stock ports and it was very good for driveability and start up. The Walbro 450 is a good pump if you haven't bought the Aeromotive pump yet. You'll probably want some NGK R7420 plugs while you're at it. While it is more spendy to go with a modern ecu, the ease of tuning and safety features are well worth the investment. Haltech makes an excellent unit for the money. Getting some IGN1A coils might be worth it too. 400whp is an expensive one, but more than that starts costing tons more. The 5 speed should be fine as long as you keep your torque spiking under control and the gear ratios start working nicely above 400hp.

swif

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for the input. The parts I listed I already have and were purchased years ago. Seeing that it been so long I am ok replacing parts to have something that will be more efficient and have better safety precautions. Id rather over build for engine safety.

As far as bigger ports and noise I am ok with that. If I can find a nice balance for power and MPG I am willing to sacrifice some mpg.

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

Personally I'd ditch the PFC, burn it if nobody wants to buy it. You'd be doing yourself a favor.

As mentioned, extreme porting like that is "meh" on a turbo rotary. If you feel froggy I'd consider scalloped rotors and a streetport.

Also, I'd recommend building for 600whp but just aiming for 400 to start with. I'm in a similar situation (getting the car running after 8 years) and the big power goals of past decades just seem hollow. Reliability gets more expensive to retain at the higher levels. Would you really want to stretch yourself thin chasing a peak number, only to have it all blow in your face 6 months later?

R-R-Rx7

iTrader: (24)

Ryan's follower i suppose ?

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

I'd lost motors due to that piece of **** long before Ryan came on the scene. You can thank TitaniumTT for my original distain of the PFC.

R-R-Rx7

iTrader: (24)

with that being said i suppose no motor ever blows with a haltech motec etc ? when i followed the "trend" several years back and ditched the PFC i still managed to blow my car on the dyno with a high-end ecu and a top tier rotary tuner.

been running the PFC for several years at 30+ psi of boost with zero tuning-related hiccups. the car spends 90% of its life at the track. i have managed to damage every single part of the car, but the motor is still running strong. not an engine issue since 2013 when i built this one

I have now switched to the Elite 2500. its to be determined whether it was a good move or not

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

Obviously you can blow motors on any ecu, to claim otherwise is pure falacy. However, blowing a motor because the ECU lacks all failsafes (like what happened when my oil line worked loose) is easily preventable with most modern ECUs. Blowing a motor under partial throttle going up a hill (like what also happened to me) is down to poor tune, however failsafes (that the PFC lacks) could probably have also prevented that.

Tuning for WOT track use is fairly straight forward all things considered. A really really solid tune for the street is far more involved since it needs to account for far more driving situations, throttle loads, etc.

If you're a fanboy of the PFC that's great, but if you want to say it's as good or better than a modern ECU then you're just practicing self-delusion. 400whp is the absolute upper limit of what I'd consider a PFC for. The capabilities of even the most basic/standard modern ECU are just so much better for a similar price. I'm not saying the guy needs to spend $4k+ on a motec, but he'll be better of buying SOMETHING newer since he's starting from scratch anyway.

R-R-Rx7

iTrader: (24)

I am not a fanboy of any sort, self-delusion is when you think you will spend 4k on a motec ecu and think that it will perform miracles and save you from anything.
I didnt say that its not lacking features. it sure does. it is a very old, yet again a proven computer. Blaming the computer for the poor tune is just plain and utter BS.

starting from scratch means he has nothing in hand and he's in the market to buy stuff. he already has the pfc, you told him to give it away or burn it
the OP has mentioned that the money has been tight, he already has the pfc.

my car is street car with a/c and p/s. road legal in a country far stricter than most (if not all) states. car drives like an oem car and shreds at the track. It is a proven system that works well.
the reason why its at the track 90% of its life its because its half way around the globe and when i am back i spend a lot of time at the track, otherwise i would have driven it everyday.
I am extremely grateful to my tuner. when he flies over we spend several days tuning the car on every possible condition. anywhere from sea level, up in the mountains, street, track hillclimb etc and the car drives like very well

i did mentioned that i switched to new ecu. so much for a "fanboy" . i do have different goals now, but the PFC has served me, and a lot of other people i know very well. at the end of the day as i mentioned previously it all comes down to the hands of the guy behind the computer.

when i had a higher end ecu (no need to name which), my vacuum line to the wastegate came off, overboosted the car to 60 or so psi and every single thing in the motor was destroyed. so naturally the first thing i questioned was, wtf happened to all the safety measures that are supposed to protect me ? i was given some BS excuses that i dont need to go in detail, it was 10+ years ago.

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

Go ahead and name names. I'm curious what you consider to be a high end ecu.

R-R-Rx7

iTrader: (24)

I said a higher end ecu, dont worry no-one can reach your Motec status.
and when i say higher end ecu, it is in comparison to the PFC, with the safety features and added features...

This is getting nowhere.

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

No need to project your own feelings of inferiority here. Though I guess it's no surprise, you seem to have been itching to pick a fight. Oh well..

R-R-Rx7

iTrader: (24)

i have no desire to proceed because it will end up in a fight and i don't see a point in it. you seemed alright in person way back then when we met so yeah i don't know what your issue is

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

Text tends to hide tone and obviously doesn't translate inflection. Perhaps you didn't mean to, but you've come off as goading. There is absolutely merit to replacing a PFC given the current options. Instead of addressing my comments you set the tone with, what appears to be, a jab about my being "a follower of Ryan" or something along those lines.

You walked in as the antagonist bro But who knows, maybe it's all a misunderstanding.

But you're right, we're trashing up this dude's thread with a back and forth that hasn't really provided anything beneficial. Get a last word in if you'd like, I'm leaving it alone after this post.

swif

iTrader: (4)

The only reason I am looking to have different engine management is due to the time that has pasted. PFC when I bought it was a main stay for the car. Yes others were out more expensive, but they were just getting in the scene.

Yes PFC has had issues, but it seemed from people who were not doing proper tunes or had improper parts for HP wishes.

AS far as building for a higher power and detuning, that is my plan, but want to be around 500-550 maybe slightly higher. I don't want to have an extreme pressure plate leading to stiff *** clutch peddle.

swif

iTrader: (4)

So what are the "new" "updated" ECUs that have proven themselves over the last 3-5 years for a steerable higher hp car?

newtgomez

Your main ecu options nowadays are fairly limited on what's proven to work reliably. Most modern ecus were made years ago and the updates have kept them going.
-Motec M1-Haltech Elite-Haltech Nexus (Hasn't been on the market long, but they do their homework)
-Any Syvecs unit-Link ecus are pretty good from what I understand-AEM Infinity. Take this with a grain of salt as I've had one that works for years now in my circuit racing Integra, but it doesn't have street car type support like the other ecu's do. The software is buggy from time to time and you should trust it as far as you can throw it.

ECUMaster has awful software that isn't really being updated and I question the integrity of it since most instructions are translated from a different language.
Adaptronics are known to have MAP sensor and crank sensing issues from past models. Fueltech is still fairly new on the rotary market and most people only use them because Youtubers are sponsored by them. (I do like that the ecu is a digital dash and would like to see what it can do firsthand before making solid judgement)

Like it's been said before, the most important part is the tune. Wiring and sensors go a long way. The more sensors and logging, the easier it is to catch something or adjust for certain conditions.

Also, if you want 500hp, you're going to have a stiff clutch plain and simple. A multi plate will be the most favorable imo as six pucks drive like an on/off switch.

Slides

I have a single plate from direct clutch service in QLD , sprung cushion ceramic, dives very well. Bit heavier than standard but nothing like the shitty push types people put in converted first gens or fc3s. I have bought and underbore clutch slave to make it a touch lighter. If it doesn't hold my target power I think it will be t56 magnum, twin plate and hydraulic slave.

All the fail-safe are only as good as the set-up and implementation too, and the reality is half the time you will still nip up a motor with a sudden failure. Still worth upgrading just for logging capability and ability to control auxiliary injection from one platform.

IRPerformance

iTrader: (41)

You will have a difficult time hitting your 550hp goal with a gt3574. The hot side is too small. It will be a lot more comfortable at the 400hp level with very good spool. That being said that turbo is quite outdated. If you are set on running it that is fine, just be realistic with your power goals. A modern EFR 8374 or 9180 would be a much better choice. There is nothing wrong with a Power FC if you have a solid tune and setup. I've seen just as many problems with other ecus. You can have all the safety features in the world and it still may not save you if you have a major error. That being said, I do prefer a modern Haltech. Keep in mind that a PFC will have trouble controlling primary injectors larger than 750cc. I would also stay away from a bridge in anything you want to drive a decent amount. The noise, low end power loss, and reliability losses are far more negative than the gains you make up top.

swif

iTrader: (4)

As I stated towards the end of my first post that I would be looking at updating the turbo.

I didn't realize the bottom end suffered so much with a bridge port.

swif

iTrader: (4)

Show what are the differences between Haltec 1000, 1500, 2000, and 2500?

newtgomez

The Haltech website allows you to compare ecu's with the charts they have, but basically it depends on what you want and what you're willing to give up.
If you can live without an OMP, you can get by with a 1500.
If you want to keep it, I would suggest the 2500 as it has more outputs.
Basically it's inputs/outputs and features. Imo the only two you would really want are the 1500 or 2500 as the 1000 and 2000 can't use DBW and DBW is really nice for tuning and features. Not having to worry about outdated TPS stuff is nice and idle and throttle response is top notch. If you're going to use the car only for the street and have zero plans to race it, you could probably be okay with a 1000 or 2000.
There are tons of things to consider and the right ecu for now and the future is a calculation.

swif

iTrader: (4)

The OMP, is the injector for oil into the cylinder to assist with rotors lubrication correct?

I was thinking of pulling the oil injector and running premix. But that was almost 15 years ago when I first started so I am no sure if it is worth doing that.

I did take a quick look at Hal tech website but didn't see the charts to compare. I will take a second look.

I really need to talk with a few shops and see how they are and what they would recommend.

I am thinking of visiting RRR, Lucky 7, Rotary Power and Neptune speed. As stated I was/am looking for about 550 to the wheels but willing to go lower to make the build more reliable and not as expensive. I was/am toying with having the block studded as I want to over build to a point to protect the engine.

swif

iTrader: (4)

So a meet with a shop today. Discussed my build. They are recommending the 8374 as I will run pump gas 99% of the time. Go with large street port.

im hoping I can hit mid to high 400’s with this setup.

zx1441

Mid 400's on a dynojet with that size efr and street ports will require 20+lbs of boost (most likely alot more approaching 500). That much boost, most here will advise the addition of an AI system.

I think a pump gas tune for the street (15 psi) and an E85 tune for high boost when you want it all is the best way to go these days. That's pretty much what I've chosen to do( pump gas and AI for street @20 ish) with the efr a few sizes up from your selection and Ethanol 1 for whatever mine can take.

What shop is doing your build?