HELP- Do I need a rebuild now after 570HP
12-27-10, 08:13 PM
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HELP- Do I need a rebuild now after 570HP
I had a up and down weekend. Firstly, ran the can on the dyno on Friday and see attached. Was happy with results, but had the fuel dumping at high rpms. Found the problem, one cell in the base map had a typo and was set at 46 instead of 26. So went back on the dyno today and on the second pull the famous lumpy idle showed up. Checked the spark, its good, changed the plugs and it ran better. The front leading and trailing plugs were fouled, and black, for sure, the rear plugs look good and lean.
The car starts on the first go, no increase in the water temperature and will run non-stop with a lumpy idle, and struggles to accelerate. I also noticed that one, of the two, walbo pump connections had failed so I was on the dyno with only one walbo pump all day. There are only two possiblities:
1. An apex seal is cracked or blown and the engtine is trashed.
2. The front primary injector (850) is dumping fuel and stuck open. THis has happened before.
I know everyone will say compression test, but anyone have an easy check to make sure my engine is good and this is an injector problem. I'm praying that is what it is.
The car starts on the first go, no increase in the water temperature and will run non-stop with a lumpy idle, and struggles to accelerate. I also noticed that one, of the two, walbo pump connections had failed so I was on the dyno with only one walbo pump all day. There are only two possiblities:
1. An apex seal is cracked or blown and the engtine is trashed.
2. The front primary injector (850) is dumping fuel and stuck open. THis has happened before.
I know everyone will say compression test, but anyone have an easy check to make sure my engine is good and this is an injector problem. I'm praying that is what it is.
12-27-10, 08:42 PM
#2
I had a up and down weekend. Firstly, ran the can on the dyno on Friday and see attached. Was happy with results, but had the fuel dumping at high rpms. Found the problem, one cell in the base map had a typo and was set at 46 instead of 26. So went back on the dyno today and on the second pull the famous lumpy idle showed up. Checked the spark, its good, changed the plugs and it ran better. The front leading and trailing plugs were fouled, and black, for sure, the rear plugs look good and lean.
The car starts on the first go, no increase in the water temperature and will run non-stop with a lumpy idle, and struggles to accelerate. I also noticed that one, of the two, walbo pump connections had failed so I was on the dyno with only one walbo pump all day. There are only two possiblities:
1. An apex seal is cracked or blown and the engtine is trashed.
2. The front primary injector (850) is dumping fuel and stuck open. THis has happened before.
I know everyone will say compression test, but anyone have an easy check to make sure my engine is good and this is an injector problem. I'm praying that is what it is.
The car starts on the first go, no increase in the water temperature and will run non-stop with a lumpy idle, and struggles to accelerate. I also noticed that one, of the two, walbo pump connections had failed so I was on the dyno with only one walbo pump all day. There are only two possiblities:
1. An apex seal is cracked or blown and the engtine is trashed.
2. The front primary injector (850) is dumping fuel and stuck open. THis has happened before.
I know everyone will say compression test, but anyone have an easy check to make sure my engine is good and this is an injector problem. I'm praying that is what it is.
Nothing else matters if your compression isn't right.
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12-28-10, 10:58 AM
#13
It's Blown. Cracked/chipped/busted seals all the way around front and rear. LOL!
I mean can't you just rotate it over by hand and listen? Any Grinding, binding, crunching would mean things aren't right inside? Right? And if you can easily rotate it with the plugs in wouldn't that be a sign something is busted internally?
Good luck man!
I mean can't you just rotate it over by hand and listen? Any Grinding, binding, crunching would mean things aren't right inside? Right? And if you can easily rotate it with the plugs in wouldn't that be a sign something is busted internally?
Good luck man!
01-04-11, 11:23 PM
#19
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
Not side seal--apex seal, and probably more than one broken. I hope I'm wrong, but you'll be on the hunt for at least one rotor and rotor housing, as well as a new turbine wheel too 
01-05-11, 09:06 AM
#22
Racing Rotary Since 1983
iTrader: (6)
converting your hp from standard correction to SAE you made 557 instead of 570.
570 SAE X 1.92 = 1070 CFM or 73.95 lbs per minute of air.
at 12.5 AFR you would be using 5.916 lbs/minute of gasoline or 3527 CC/Min and should be around 72% duty cycle w 850/1600s.
at 557 SAE rwhp you were making 655 flywheel hp from 159 cu inches or 4.12 hp per cubic inch!
given that race gas has the same autoignition temperature as 93 octane (495 degrees) and you were running no alcohol (autoignition 867 degrees or water) i am not surprised at your outcome especially with air fuel over 12.
while racegas has the octane, being gasoline it has the usual dangerous autoignition point and as such you will find it a whole lot cheaper to add meth and/or water to your motor so you avoid talking to engine re-builders.
further, for a whole bunch of reasons i favor a Kenne Bell Boost A Pump rather than a second pump.
good luck,
howard
570 SAE X 1.92 = 1070 CFM or 73.95 lbs per minute of air.
at 12.5 AFR you would be using 5.916 lbs/minute of gasoline or 3527 CC/Min and should be around 72% duty cycle w 850/1600s.
at 557 SAE rwhp you were making 655 flywheel hp from 159 cu inches or 4.12 hp per cubic inch!
given that race gas has the same autoignition temperature as 93 octane (495 degrees) and you were running no alcohol (autoignition 867 degrees or water) i am not surprised at your outcome especially with air fuel over 12.
while racegas has the octane, being gasoline it has the usual dangerous autoignition point and as such you will find it a whole lot cheaper to add meth and/or water to your motor so you avoid talking to engine re-builders.
further, for a whole bunch of reasons i favor a Kenne Bell Boost A Pump rather than a second pump.
good luck,
howard
01-05-11, 02:09 PM
#23
i don't prefer the KB BaP because it overruns the wiring and pump which leads to premature failures but i honestly haven't seen any failures yet aside from melted wiring so i can't comment on pump life with accuracy. you have to be careful with your electrical wiring and make sure it is overdone versus marginal for stock voltage levels. they both add another failure point but fuel pumps rarely fail if you wire them properly so i would prefer 2 pumps if not for the necessity to redo all the fuel lines and modify the sender housing. i'm going to run dual walbros when i get off my *** and can also afford to push the car over 20psi(need to send the EMS out for a map upgrade and switch to v-mount).
even with auxiliary injection the motor would be toast at 12.5 AFR pushing that horsepower level.
even with auxiliary injection the motor would be toast at 12.5 AFR pushing that horsepower level.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 01-05-11 at 02:13 PM.
01-05-11, 07:53 PM
#24
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converting your hp from standard correction to SAE you made 557 instead of 570.
570 SAE X 1.92 = 1070 CFM or 73.95 lbs per minute of air.
at 12.5 AFR you would be using 5.916 lbs/minute of gasoline or 3527 CC/Min and should be around 72% duty cycle w 850/1600s.
at 557 SAE rwhp you were making 655 flywheel hp from 159 cu inches or 4.12 hp per cubic inch!
given that race gas has the same autoignition temperature as 93 octane (495 degrees) and you were running no alcohol (autoignition 867 degrees or water) i am not surprised at your outcome especially with air fuel over 12.
while racegas has the octane, being gasoline it has the usual dangerous autoignition point and as such you will find it a whole lot cheaper to add meth and/or water to your motor so you avoid talking to engine re-builders.
further, for a whole bunch of reasons i favor a Kenne Bell Boost A Pump rather than a second pump.
good luck,
howard
570 SAE X 1.92 = 1070 CFM or 73.95 lbs per minute of air.
at 12.5 AFR you would be using 5.916 lbs/minute of gasoline or 3527 CC/Min and should be around 72% duty cycle w 850/1600s.
at 557 SAE rwhp you were making 655 flywheel hp from 159 cu inches or 4.12 hp per cubic inch!
given that race gas has the same autoignition temperature as 93 octane (495 degrees) and you were running no alcohol (autoignition 867 degrees or water) i am not surprised at your outcome especially with air fuel over 12.
while racegas has the octane, being gasoline it has the usual dangerous autoignition point and as such you will find it a whole lot cheaper to add meth and/or water to your motor so you avoid talking to engine re-builders.
further, for a whole bunch of reasons i favor a Kenne Bell Boost A Pump rather than a second pump.
good luck,
howard
01-05-11, 08:01 PM
#25
Racing Rotary Since 1983
iTrader: (6)
i have run my BAP (20 amp version) at +20% V gain for 5 years w one Cosmo pump. it has run my 850/1600s to 90% duty cycle w zero fuel pressure fade at 20 psi.
i like the fact that the pump only sees more V under boost and the rest of the time it is pretty close to OE.
since i ran 1400 CC/Min of 100% meth it generally only has to push my injectors to 71% duty at 500 SAE hp. (i now run 2000)
i log my fuel pressure so i KNOW there is no pressure drop off.
works for me though there are plenty other options.
howard
i like the fact that the pump only sees more V under boost and the rest of the time it is pretty close to OE.
since i ran 1400 CC/Min of 100% meth it generally only has to push my injectors to 71% duty at 500 SAE hp. (i now run 2000)
i log my fuel pressure so i KNOW there is no pressure drop off.
works for me though there are plenty other options.
howard