Greddy T-88
10-18-01, 03:36 PM
#101
Yellow Dragon is no more
I know the PowerFC holds the OMP to 50% .... You pretty much want the OMP pump to run linear with throttle position. After looking at the circuit diagram in the manual (F-42) it appears that the unit has to have power to be in an open position. I'll test it while I have it off the block.
10-18-01, 05:30 PM
#102
Haltech E6K
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Originally posted by spyfish007
....it appears that the unit has to have power to be in an open position. ...
....it appears that the unit has to have power to be in an open position. ...
10-18-01, 05:42 PM
#103
Yellow Dragon is no more
The fact that it is a stepping motor complicates the control factor for the haltech and for most ECUs because a stepper motor usually utilizes analog feedback control and that is out of the scope of most off the shelf digital circuits.
10-18-01, 07:28 PM
#104
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
Originally posted by spyfish007
The fact that it is a stepping motor complicates the control factor for the haltech and for most ECUs because a stepper motor usually utilizes analog feedback control and that is out of the scope of most off the shelf digital circuits.
The fact that it is a stepping motor complicates the control factor for the haltech and for most ECUs because a stepper motor usually utilizes analog feedback control and that is out of the scope of most off the shelf digital circuits.
Hey, smart guy! Yeah, you! Get the hell off Carson's computer!
The nerve of some people...
Rich
10-19-01, 11:03 AM
#105
Haltech E6K
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I agree Spyfish, but I also know that for idle control the Haltech can control a stepper motor.
Either way, the Haltech does not and never will control the MOP.
Either way, the Haltech does not and never will control the MOP.
10-19-01, 04:07 PM
#106
Yellow Dragon is no more
Ah ... I hadn't thought of that circuit and yes the Haltech won't control the OMP ever. I can guarentee you that stepper motor feature cost them lots of extra $$ to put on that chip.
10-19-01, 08:21 PM
#107
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So why dont you just get a remaped stock ECU and run a boost controller. Since most of you PFC people have to one one anyway. A remaped one only cost like 600 or so. Thats 1/3 the price of a PFC. You know what i could do wit 1200??? Hell i could have a new turbo sitting on my doorstep tom wit that kinda cash. My friends FD runs PFC and he isnt completly happy wit it. He wants the haltech but i told him no. I told him just to sell it since it hasnt been altered. When i get the turbo im just gona have my ECU remaped.
10-22-01, 05:46 PM
#109
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Don't you just love these ECU debates.
From what I understand of the Mazda OMP, it is a stepper motor similar in design to an IAC stepper motor. These usually default to 50% open and use one motor to drive shut and one motor to drive open. I would assume the OMP would default to 50% open if you unplugged it. It would also seem like a sensible fail-safe for Mazda to have included in its design to remain somewhat functional if the motors or wiring failed.
Why the big argument over PFC and Haltech ? Each to their own is what I say. Some people don't want to touch a single wire, and you can understand that when looking at any car made in the 90's and on. Others want the best they can get and dont mind doing a little wiring. To me, the couple of ours spent wiring a system, vs the rest of the life of the car, it is well worth doing. Both systems are capable systems, but as much as the PFC guys dont like to hear they didn't buy the best, they didn't buy the best.
I dont know where the idea of the Haltech not having the resolution came from. From my experience the only system that really can claim to beat the Haltech is the Motec with an advanced option. Coming in at double the price to add only a few more load points. Actual resolution of injection time and ignition timing is up there with the best.
My job is to JUST tune aftermarket systems. These include the Haltech systems, Motec, Autronic, EMS , Microtech, Wolf, Injec, Apexi, and the only system I am a dealer for is Haltech. I go with Haltech because they are the best value for money system that allows virtual trouble free running. I can almost always get any engine running as good as it can get and rarely walk away believing it could run better.
Going by what the Japanese run is a bit of a strange way to think. If the Japanese could get Haltech, Motec, or Autronic systems in Japanese writing I bet things would be a little different. The truth is that they use what they have available, and in the most cases it is a dashboard of coarsely adjustable fuel and ignition controller, re-worked and butchered factory ECU's, and occasionally you see a PFC or an FCON-V.
If you look to Australia where I am, you see most cars running fast times at the drag strip run Microtech. Not because it is good (quite the contrary), but purely because it is cheap and fast to adjust with the handset. With 90% of workshop owners being virtually computer-phobic, the handset makes it easy for them to use. The problem then is that they go on and tell everyone that they are the best system because they actually got one to run for more than 10 seconds :-) Next you see a whole bunch of people on the street with them, most wondering why it has flat-spots all the time, uses a tonne of fuel, and every few months costs them an engine.
Back on the accuracy thing with regards to ignition timing. Why not go to each system, lock the ignition timing and go out to the engine with a timing gun. Give the engine a few revs and see just how much the timing moves. Most of the systems out there will scare you they float that much! To me, any system claiming 0.1 degree resolution is stretching things a little.
End of rant.
From what I understand of the Mazda OMP, it is a stepper motor similar in design to an IAC stepper motor. These usually default to 50% open and use one motor to drive shut and one motor to drive open. I would assume the OMP would default to 50% open if you unplugged it. It would also seem like a sensible fail-safe for Mazda to have included in its design to remain somewhat functional if the motors or wiring failed.
Why the big argument over PFC and Haltech ? Each to their own is what I say. Some people don't want to touch a single wire, and you can understand that when looking at any car made in the 90's and on. Others want the best they can get and dont mind doing a little wiring. To me, the couple of ours spent wiring a system, vs the rest of the life of the car, it is well worth doing. Both systems are capable systems, but as much as the PFC guys dont like to hear they didn't buy the best, they didn't buy the best.
I dont know where the idea of the Haltech not having the resolution came from. From my experience the only system that really can claim to beat the Haltech is the Motec with an advanced option. Coming in at double the price to add only a few more load points. Actual resolution of injection time and ignition timing is up there with the best.
My job is to JUST tune aftermarket systems. These include the Haltech systems, Motec, Autronic, EMS , Microtech, Wolf, Injec, Apexi, and the only system I am a dealer for is Haltech. I go with Haltech because they are the best value for money system that allows virtual trouble free running. I can almost always get any engine running as good as it can get and rarely walk away believing it could run better.
Going by what the Japanese run is a bit of a strange way to think. If the Japanese could get Haltech, Motec, or Autronic systems in Japanese writing I bet things would be a little different. The truth is that they use what they have available, and in the most cases it is a dashboard of coarsely adjustable fuel and ignition controller, re-worked and butchered factory ECU's, and occasionally you see a PFC or an FCON-V.
If you look to Australia where I am, you see most cars running fast times at the drag strip run Microtech. Not because it is good (quite the contrary), but purely because it is cheap and fast to adjust with the handset. With 90% of workshop owners being virtually computer-phobic, the handset makes it easy for them to use. The problem then is that they go on and tell everyone that they are the best system because they actually got one to run for more than 10 seconds :-) Next you see a whole bunch of people on the street with them, most wondering why it has flat-spots all the time, uses a tonne of fuel, and every few months costs them an engine.
Back on the accuracy thing with regards to ignition timing. Why not go to each system, lock the ignition timing and go out to the engine with a timing gun. Give the engine a few revs and see just how much the timing moves. Most of the systems out there will scare you they float that much! To me, any system claiming 0.1 degree resolution is stretching things a little.
End of rant.
10-22-01, 05:56 PM
#110
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Haltech is looking at adding OMP facilities but dont hold your breathe. The current top model, the E6K, will control almost all types of idle control systems. Stepper motor, 2-wire BAC, and 3-wire Slave-type BAC. The stepper motor control can be adapted to run the OMP but would require simply programming and coding to suit. Unfortunately the Mazda RX7 is only one of hundreds of cars supported and Haltech have not supported the OMP as yet. They do have the OMP systems sitting on the shelf behind the firmware and software programmers and eventually it will be done. At the moment though there are more important things being done.
Expect though that once it is done, you will be able to program the oil mixture over a 3D map. Again, please dont go asking myself or Haltech when all this is being done. It is on the list, just not yet.
Expect though that once it is done, you will be able to program the oil mixture over a 3D map. Again, please dont go asking myself or Haltech when all this is being done. It is on the list, just not yet.
10-22-01, 07:22 PM
#112
Passenger
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I thought this was a T88 thread. The Haltech is awesome and the Apexi unit has to be fudged around by a Power excel dealer to get properly tuned. Both are good ECU's period. The stock one blows. And back to the subject, the T88 is going to cause you some serious traction problems. But the 124mph trap speed still makes me smile.
Gotta get those M/T stickies...
Gotta get those M/T stickies...
10-22-01, 10:49 PM
#113
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I just received my PFC back from XS eng for the 3bar map,
850cc & 1300cc, and specified air temp corection settings.
I will let u know how the programming works when I dynotune
it with the new turbo.
2
TO4X Turbo
Ported motor etc.
Xcessive Motorsports
850cc & 1300cc, and specified air temp corection settings.
I will let u know how the programming works when I dynotune
it with the new turbo.
2
TO4X Turbo
Ported motor etc.
Xcessive Motorsports
10-25-01, 08:12 PM
#117
Passenger
Posts: n/a
T88 would eat the TO4X for lunch. Don't get a small turbo. You're going to make a big mistake. I went with a turbonetics 60-1 for my first single set up. It was fun because it boosted upo fast, but the over all power wasn't enough. Besides, what happens to a tiny turbo under higher boost settings? (OVER SPIN) Then say good bye to the money you just wasted. Discart the thoughts in your mind and get the large turbo. Tell me what reknown drag racer utilizes a TO4 based turbo. No one.
10-25-01, 09:38 PM
#119
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OMP
I'm no expert on these things, and I'm still getting used to my PFC, but one thing I noticed is on the optinns page is a sensor monitoring page.If you watch the OMP sensor voltage, it goes up and worn with absolute manifold pressure I say 1.2v @ idle, and upwards of 4v under boost. Assuming a 5v max sensor voltage as in most automotive sensor systems, this leads me to believe it is doing something with the OMP regarding load. If the OMP is like the old 2cycle injection pumps, then the rpm part is automatic as it's driven by the engine, and therefore changes RPM as the engine does. Does anyone who has torn down one of these engines know if it is, in fact driven by the engine? Also at 80 mph cruise the O2 sensor oltage was fluxuating wildly, and also making inj duty cycle follow it. I disabled the o2, and the fluxuating has stoped,and milage improved. Wonder if I need a new O2 sensor. Watch your sensor imputs and see if you see the same thing with the OMP.
