Fuel Sump in tank?
11-05-02, 09:25 PM
#26
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Len, i figured since i had gone this far, what is another $80 for a "real" return line. 
yes i do believe that your idea of using both the supply and return lines as my return *would* work. but like i said...WTF is another few bucks?
direct freak- this is for my 93
sub-zero- i am wondering if there would be a problem with using the second opening in the morosso "sump" as a return. or if i should weld an AN fitting to the stock cover/pump mount (whatever the hell it is called) and weld a tube to drop the returning fuel to the bottom of the tank. not because it wouldnt *reach* the "sump", but because you dont realy want it just spraying around after the AN fitting. that is my understanding of it anyway. i know there would be no problem with this way, i was just wondering if the second 3/8 opening could be used as a return. i thought it may since the line is going to reach above the top of the tank at one point the way it is being run as of right now. (goes over the subframe) i also drilled a bunch of holes and scrapped off al the undercoating.
yes i do believe that your idea of using both the supply and return lines as my return *would* work. but like i said...WTF is another few bucks?direct freak- this is for my 93
sub-zero- i am wondering if there would be a problem with using the second opening in the morosso "sump" as a return. or if i should weld an AN fitting to the stock cover/pump mount (whatever the hell it is called) and weld a tube to drop the returning fuel to the bottom of the tank. not because it wouldnt *reach* the "sump", but because you dont realy want it just spraying around after the AN fitting. that is my understanding of it anyway. i know there would be no problem with this way, i was just wondering if the second 3/8 opening could be used as a return. i thought it may since the line is going to reach above the top of the tank at one point the way it is being run as of right now. (goes over the subframe) i also drilled a bunch of holes and scrapped off al the undercoating.
11-07-02, 05:02 PM
#27
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Pumps like the A1000 are very high flowing pumps and therefore have very close clearances within the pump . If your suction is above the liquid level it could hamper performance of the pump and you also run the risk of loosing flow intermittently (low level , slushing, dirty filter etc.) for various reasons , this can be detrimental to the pump as fuel flowing through it lubricates and cools the pump , without this there would be accelerated wear and premature failure of the pump.
the external sump is the best , simplest and cheapest bet.
the external sump is the best , simplest and cheapest bet.
11-07-02, 08:16 PM
#28
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was that response to answer my question about the return?
i am asking about the return. not the delivery line. another thing i am wondering about is the temp of the returned fuel. it it fairly close to the delivery line if i did use the "other" 3/8 threaded hole. would this cause any concern with any of you?
i am asking about the return. not the delivery line. another thing i am wondering about is the temp of the returned fuel. it it fairly close to the delivery line if i did use the "other" 3/8 threaded hole. would this cause any concern with any of you?
11-08-02, 12:56 PM
#29
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kieth all i can give you is a example like this
remember funneling beer???...the pressure @ the end of the funnel hose is abt the same as the pressure the return line will see@ that location .(other port in the sump)...u think your fuel press is gonna be consistent froma full tank to a 1/4 tank....i sayweld the fitting on the top u meat head....why make life simple
or u coud do the -8 to a Y then to 3/8np to 5-16 barb and use the feed and return right @ the tank but still have a "real return line" and u get so spend like 40 bux more
lol
remember funneling beer???...the pressure @ the end of the funnel hose is abt the same as the pressure the return line will see@ that location .(other port in the sump)...u think your fuel press is gonna be consistent froma full tank to a 1/4 tank....i sayweld the fitting on the top u meat head....why make life simple
or u coud do the -8 to a Y then to 3/8np to 5-16 barb and use the feed and return right @ the tank but still have a "real return line" and u get so spend like 40 bux more
lol
11-09-02, 06:54 AM
#31
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Originally posted by Bacon
kieth all i can give you is a example like this
remember funneling beer???...the pressure @ the end of the funnel hose is abt the same as the pressure the return line will see@ that location .(other port in the sump)...u think your fuel press is gonna be consistent froma full tank to a 1/4 tank....i sayweld the fitting on the top u meat head....why make life simple
or u coud do the -8 to a Y then to 3/8np to 5-16 barb and use the feed and return right @ the tank but still have a "real return line" and u get so spend like 40 bux more
lol
kieth all i can give you is a example like this
remember funneling beer???...the pressure @ the end of the funnel hose is abt the same as the pressure the return line will see@ that location .(other port in the sump)...u think your fuel press is gonna be consistent froma full tank to a 1/4 tank....i sayweld the fitting on the top u meat head....why make life simple
or u coud do the -8 to a Y then to 3/8np to 5-16 barb and use the feed and return right @ the tank but still have a "real return line" and u get so spend like 40 bux more
lol
....no, whats that? 
i see your point and i actualy already went throught this in my head. (actualy went as far as to get all the fittings and a Y w/ 3/8npt to 2 -4 barbed fittings. but what is the difference if i just run the return over the tank and down the back? i dont see a problem. no matter the presure caused by the weight of the fuel, it wont fill the return line enough to go OVER the tank. just to the level the fuel is at. (am i missing something?)
this way i can still use the Y block to change my fuel rails to be run in parallel rather than a series and Y them back together at the regulator. this will stop any help in any pulses in the fuel caused from injectors upstream from my understanding. as someone put it to me...remember the fuel pulsation dampener?
i am going to do it my way because i am a "meat head"
you home this weekend?
11-09-02, 09:43 AM
#32
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I like the idea of running the return fuel back into the top of the tank and down to the bottom away from the suction for the pump. I would be a little leary or having your return go back into the tank so close to the suction, might end up getting "hot" fuel reculating through your fuel system.
Also whats all this talk about two lines for pressure and two lines for return?? Whats the point? Just more fittings to leak and clutter if you ask me.
Cam
Also whats all this talk about two lines for pressure and two lines for return?? Whats the point? Just more fittings to leak and clutter if you ask me.
Cam
11-09-02, 10:17 AM
#33
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the top does make more sence in terms of heat. that is why i asked the question. you are the first to reply about that topic. i am going to do the top of tank return a little later. i just have to get the damn thing up and running at this point so i will use the sump return for now.
i dont think Len's idea of using the stock delivery and return is a *bad* idea.... it will save some money and will probobly work fine. but i do agree it could cause some problems with clutter and more places to leak. if i did do it that way, it would probobly get changed. it would be a temp. fix.
i dont think Len's idea of using the stock delivery and return is a *bad* idea.... it will save some money and will probobly work fine. but i do agree it could cause some problems with clutter and more places to leak. if i did do it that way, it would probobly get changed. it would be a temp. fix.
---> Bacon
10-16-04, 09:11 PM
#38
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This is an old thread, but I thought I'd reply anyway.
Here's the tank on my '81. It's the Competition Engineering sump kit. There's atleast 5.5" of ground clearance. I had the front wheels about 4" off the ground when I measured it so with all four on the ground there may be a little bit more.
I put my pump's inlet just below the body of the tank in the area where the muffler goes. I'm not really going to have any exhaust back there so that won't be of much use to everyone.
Here's the tank on my '81. It's the Competition Engineering sump kit. There's atleast 5.5" of ground clearance. I had the front wheels about 4" off the ground when I measured it so with all four on the ground there may be a little bit more.
I put my pump's inlet just below the body of the tank in the area where the muffler goes. I'm not really going to have any exhaust back there so that won't be of much use to everyone.
10-17-04, 12:07 PM
#39
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Wow there is alot of bullshit in this thread...
First of all, yes the rear mounted pickups kits are true sumps, you have to cut the bottom out of the tank with hole saws not just hack a big hole, this creates the sump for trapping effect and stops back wall fuel climb on accelaration..
Yes the second port on the comp eng can be use as return, done it on a high pressure and and a low pressure pump application, and it works fine, on one car, I moved the return from the top of the tank to the sump and magically the car stopped reeking of fuel, the car had no evaporation return system, and it was not original equipment on this year of automobile , but returing in the top increased surface action on the fuel once the level got down to a certain height, and it started to give off alot of fumes at idle when stopped..
Just about any external pump has a huge warning in the instruction manual about what height to mount the pump, it has to be at the back of the tank, below the minimum expected fuel level, doesn't matter what application, or what pump BG, magnaflow, mallory, Holley all say the same thing.. I also found that turning a fuel pump from side to side rather than having it for and aft, changes the fuel pumps abiltiy to handle launches for the better..
The competition engineering kits are very easy to install..
Remove all the fuel with the aid of the drain plug(fc), let the tank sit for a day, most of the fuel not drained will evaporate..wash the tank out with a dish detergent and water...
Take a wire wheel and clean the area of the tank where the sump is to be installed..Mark the tank for the sump holes, drill the quarter inch holes first, then use the holesaw, makes it more accurate.. Once you have the wholes drilled, clean the tank out with water again, and then air to remove all the drilling cutting chips..
If you are really paranoid at this point about explosions after rinsing the tank twice, rig a hose from a from another cars exhaust pipe to the filler neck of the tank and run the car while you weld, with the sending unit removed..
Stick welder is way to heavy for this job, Mig or Tig is beneficial, Even oxy acetalyne will work..
Position the sump, use welding magnets to hold in place..
tack it down on the for points of the compass..
then stich weld it, every couple of inches, using a pick hammer, hammer down any where the flange lifts, then once you have it down to 1/3 weld gaps, fill in the gaps with weld, if you go to town all at once, with a continuous seam on a standard mig, you will warp the living **** out of it, if you have a stitch or pulse mig, you can do it without warping...Tig works great, but you will be there for at least an hour welding..
Fill the tank at least 3/4 full of water, and watch for weeping, a bad leak will drip, a small one will just weep, you need at least 3/4 full to put enough fluid pressure on the weld seem... When done, rinse the tank thoroughly, power brush all welds and reundercoat...
First of all, yes the rear mounted pickups kits are true sumps, you have to cut the bottom out of the tank with hole saws not just hack a big hole, this creates the sump for trapping effect and stops back wall fuel climb on accelaration..
Yes the second port on the comp eng can be use as return, done it on a high pressure and and a low pressure pump application, and it works fine, on one car, I moved the return from the top of the tank to the sump and magically the car stopped reeking of fuel, the car had no evaporation return system, and it was not original equipment on this year of automobile , but returing in the top increased surface action on the fuel once the level got down to a certain height, and it started to give off alot of fumes at idle when stopped..
Just about any external pump has a huge warning in the instruction manual about what height to mount the pump, it has to be at the back of the tank, below the minimum expected fuel level, doesn't matter what application, or what pump BG, magnaflow, mallory, Holley all say the same thing.. I also found that turning a fuel pump from side to side rather than having it for and aft, changes the fuel pumps abiltiy to handle launches for the better..
The competition engineering kits are very easy to install..
Remove all the fuel with the aid of the drain plug(fc), let the tank sit for a day, most of the fuel not drained will evaporate..wash the tank out with a dish detergent and water...
Take a wire wheel and clean the area of the tank where the sump is to be installed..Mark the tank for the sump holes, drill the quarter inch holes first, then use the holesaw, makes it more accurate.. Once you have the wholes drilled, clean the tank out with water again, and then air to remove all the drilling cutting chips..
If you are really paranoid at this point about explosions after rinsing the tank twice, rig a hose from a from another cars exhaust pipe to the filler neck of the tank and run the car while you weld, with the sending unit removed..
Stick welder is way to heavy for this job, Mig or Tig is beneficial, Even oxy acetalyne will work..
Position the sump, use welding magnets to hold in place..
tack it down on the for points of the compass..
then stich weld it, every couple of inches, using a pick hammer, hammer down any where the flange lifts, then once you have it down to 1/3 weld gaps, fill in the gaps with weld, if you go to town all at once, with a continuous seam on a standard mig, you will warp the living **** out of it, if you have a stitch or pulse mig, you can do it without warping...Tig works great, but you will be there for at least an hour welding..
Fill the tank at least 3/4 full of water, and watch for weeping, a bad leak will drip, a small one will just weep, you need at least 3/4 full to put enough fluid pressure on the weld seem... When done, rinse the tank thoroughly, power brush all welds and reundercoat...
10-17-04, 12:17 PM
#40
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Walbor 255 hp inline pump added as second pump, it will be trigger by the haltec in my carwhich can activate it by load demand (map or tps) or engine speed.. It also has a delay off to stop short cycling of the pump..First pump is still in stock position and is also a walbro 255..At some point, both will be replaced by a large external single which has been on backorder now for 4 months..
The stock return line is now the feed for the second pump, new 1/2 tube to 10 an return is run to second connection on sump.
For filters, a 3/8 barb standard carbureator filter works fine on the inlet of the efi pumps..max
The stock return line is now the feed for the second pump, new 1/2 tube to 10 an return is run to second connection on sump.
For filters, a 3/8 barb standard carbureator filter works fine on the inlet of the efi pumps..max
10-18-04, 09:19 AM
#41
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I sumped my third gen tank. I have the A-1000 mounted under the rear bumber, about as low as it can without causing problems(hitting the ground when the car launches). I ran earls up to the front. I ran the return line, back to the top of the tank, by modifying the place which the original lines come out off.
Just a note, getting the stuff of the 3rd gen tank gonna be hard, so if you are gonna take it to some place to be welded in, remove the stuff first and you'll save money!!!
Just a note, getting the stuff of the 3rd gen tank gonna be hard, so if you are gonna take it to some place to be welded in, remove the stuff first and you'll save money!!!
10-18-04, 09:47 AM
#42
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keith, I just read your question. I read my post above, I believe that there would be a problem with using the other outlet as a return, because the fuel coming back in would no doubt, cause a problem by disrubting the flow of the fuel going out. Something to think about also, is that the fuel returning will be hot, so why not give it time to cool, instead of sending it right back in near the outlet where it can be sucked out agian. I just drilled out the top plate, and used a 90 degree an fitting with 3/8 npt thread and connected a rod to it to allow it to go back into the tank.
10-18-04, 12:40 PM
#43
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wow this was dug up from the past... its over 2 years old. LOL. i guess i could call this an *update*... but i used a bulkhead fitting and a rod to direct the return fuel away from the edge of the sump and outlet for fuel. reasononing was exactly why stated. 
i was going to try the top of the tank and have a tube feeding returning fuel to the bottom, but just said F-it and used the sumps return and some tubing since this was less work than modifying the top plate....
i was going to try the top of the tank and have a tube feeding returning fuel to the bottom, but just said F-it and used the sumps return and some tubing since this was less work than modifying the top plate....
06-09-10, 10:15 PM
#44
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I've been thinking of a sump for a while now but with the inline i have. it's kinda weird. My pump is mounted level with the top of the tank and the pick up is mostly the same as stock (-10 tube through the fuel pump hanger) it works fine under acceleration and street driving but the recent addition of r comp tires put too much g-force on the fuel in the line and exceeds the suction of the pump. shitty the weld in sump seems good but what about under breaking it would pull the fuel away from the pick up. I'm thinking of a custom pick up but not sure of a design. maybe a 'box' welded to the bottom of the tank and pick up mounted horizontal into the center of the 'box' from the back!!?!?!?!
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