Dyno'd my T78 @ 13PSI
11-04-02, 09:29 AM
#51
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Originally posted by Silver93T
Time slips have NOTHING to due with the tuner, but are all in the hands of the driver. .
Time slips have NOTHING to due with the tuner, but are all in the hands of the driver. .
11-04-02, 11:17 AM
#52
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Originally posted by vosko
the boost controller wasn't set right. i played with it on the cruise its working pretty damn good now !
the boost controller wasn't set right. i played with it on the cruise its working pretty damn good now !
It usually takes 4 - 5 good pulls to get the thing to finish learning and settle down after making a boost setting change, ie 16 - 16.5psi in the same "setup" will cause it to go back into learn for a few pulls. I made the mistake on the dyno too...had been running 16psi on the street and wanted to pull a little be more hp out on the dyno, turned it up to 16.5 and waah, wahh, wahh, wahh, just like your dyno sheet...
took it out on the street, make a few pulls and it settled right down...arg...
K
11-04-02, 11:29 AM
#53
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Originally posted by nocab72
Vosko - I have the same boost controller SBC-ID. It works great once you have it set up (as you probably see now). I am using AUTO, with the gain set between 48 and 55, depending on boost levels and outside air temps.
It usually takes 4 - 5 good pulls to get the thing to finish learning and settle down after making a boost setting change, ie 16 - 16.5psi in the same "setup" will cause it to go back into learn for a few pulls. I made the mistake on the dyno too...had been running 16psi on the street and wanted to pull a little be more hp out on the dyno, turned it up to 16.5 and waah, wahh, wahh, wahh, just like your dyno sheet...
took it out on the street, make a few pulls and it settled right down...arg...
K
Vosko - I have the same boost controller SBC-ID. It works great once you have it set up (as you probably see now). I am using AUTO, with the gain set between 48 and 55, depending on boost levels and outside air temps.
It usually takes 4 - 5 good pulls to get the thing to finish learning and settle down after making a boost setting change, ie 16 - 16.5psi in the same "setup" will cause it to go back into learn for a few pulls. I made the mistake on the dyno too...had been running 16psi on the street and wanted to pull a little be more hp out on the dyno, turned it up to 16.5 and waah, wahh, wahh, wahh, just like your dyno sheet...
took it out on the street, make a few pulls and it settled right down...arg...
K
correct me if i'm wrong but the gain sets how fast the wastegate cycles open to close. lower # = lower cycle and slow. higher # = higher cycle and faster and more often ? just want to make sure. i tried turning up the gain and it seemed to do it worse ! i'll try turning it up on the highway and doing a few pulls and see how it does. thank you very much for info !!!! your the only person with any insight on this LOL
11-04-02, 12:33 PM
#54
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You are correct, turning the gain down will "slow" the responsiveness of the boost controller.
With a gain setting too low you will be brought up to your target boost, but "less quickly" and with almost no chance of overshooting your target boost.
With a gain setting too high, you will very quickly reach your target boost (as quickly as you can spool there anyways), but likely overshoot your target. It will quickly close, causing boost dip, then quickly open causing boost peak (over target).
With a proper gain setting you should reach the target boost in a very reasonable time, and stay solid at that level.
There only seems to be a 2 point gain window between what I consider too slow a response and overshooting.
I like using the "graph" option on the SBC-ID display to review the boost pattern after a pull, you can "feel" the wavering of the boost pattern during the pull, as you turn the gain down you'll be able to see the wavering diminish without wrecking by staring @ the SBC-ID or your boost gauge during the pull...
When searching for a minimum gain setting, I like to watch my boost gauge, you'll see boost quickly build to your wastegate spring pressure, then pause while the boost controller takes over, then continue on its way toward target boost. I try to minimize the pause and find a setting that builds boost between wastegate spring setting to target boost as quickly as boost built from 0 to wastegate spring pressure.
Hope this helps! I've only been using the SBC-ID for 2 months so I'm still learning.
My understanding is that using the "MANUAL" settings instead of the "AUTO" setting you get who adjustments for additional fine tuning and better boost response...I haven't had time to dick around with MANUAL much yet.
k
With a gain setting too low you will be brought up to your target boost, but "less quickly" and with almost no chance of overshooting your target boost.
With a gain setting too high, you will very quickly reach your target boost (as quickly as you can spool there anyways), but likely overshoot your target. It will quickly close, causing boost dip, then quickly open causing boost peak (over target).
With a proper gain setting you should reach the target boost in a very reasonable time, and stay solid at that level.
There only seems to be a 2 point gain window between what I consider too slow a response and overshooting.
I like using the "graph" option on the SBC-ID display to review the boost pattern after a pull, you can "feel" the wavering of the boost pattern during the pull, as you turn the gain down you'll be able to see the wavering diminish without wrecking by staring @ the SBC-ID or your boost gauge during the pull...
When searching for a minimum gain setting, I like to watch my boost gauge, you'll see boost quickly build to your wastegate spring pressure, then pause while the boost controller takes over, then continue on its way toward target boost. I try to minimize the pause and find a setting that builds boost between wastegate spring setting to target boost as quickly as boost built from 0 to wastegate spring pressure.
Hope this helps! I've only been using the SBC-ID for 2 months so I'm still learning.
My understanding is that using the "MANUAL" settings instead of the "AUTO" setting you get who adjustments for additional fine tuning and better boost response...I haven't had time to dick around with MANUAL much yet.
k
11-04-02, 12:39 PM
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PS I wouldn't think of changing the gain directly effecting how fast the wastegate opens, rather changing the gain changes how responsive the SBC-ID is.
Basically it is a closed loop system. Too much gain and you get a hyperactive boost controller that trys to reach target boost too quickly and ends up overshooting, then over reacts trying to compensate for the overshot causing boost dip...back and forth, back and forth. Too low gain and you get there, but not quick enough for my tastes (and I'm sure not yours either).
The key is the happy medium and usually only a couple point gain span with this boost controller.
Sorry if I was restating what I said in my last post, I'm just trying to be as clear as possible...
K
Basically it is a closed loop system. Too much gain and you get a hyperactive boost controller that trys to reach target boost too quickly and ends up overshooting, then over reacts trying to compensate for the overshot causing boost dip...back and forth, back and forth. Too low gain and you get there, but not quick enough for my tastes (and I'm sure not yours either).
The key is the happy medium and usually only a couple point gain span with this boost controller.
Sorry if I was restating what I said in my last post, I'm just trying to be as clear as possible...
K
Last edited by nocab72; 11-04-02 at 12:43 PM.
11-04-02, 12:44 PM
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wow that explains alot.... it seems i have alot more playing to do with my boost controller. mine is set for AUTO. i've only had it on the car for a few hundred miles now so i'm still learning. so far i like it just gotta tune it more. i also need to fine tune each boost setting right now i have 10psi, 11.5psi, 15psi, and i don't think i set CH4 i'm scared LOL
hmm. i think i'm gonna set my CH1 to 10psi, then CH2 to 15psi then ch3 to 20 psi then ch4 25 psi .... i'll only be able to tune CH1 and CH2 on the street. i guess i'll tune CH3 and CH4 on race gas on they dyno
hmm. i think i'm gonna set my CH1 to 10psi, then CH2 to 15psi then ch3 to 20 psi then ch4 25 psi .... i'll only be able to tune CH1 and CH2 on the street. i guess i'll tune CH3 and CH4 on race gas on they dyno
11-04-02, 12:46 PM
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i get it now. unfortunately i guess i just have to play with it and see what settings work best for me. thanks for the help!!!! the only person who could answer any questions about this expensive electronic component 
11-04-02, 12:52 PM
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I'm sure you know this already, but the closer the target boost setting in your boost controller to your wastegate spring the easier it is for your boost controller to control the boost.
ie 10 psi spring, 12 psi setting is cake for the boost controller. 10 psi spring, 20psi setting becomes more of a challenge for the boost controller and will require more "tinkering" to get it just right.
If you aren't going to run 10psi on the road and 15 or 16psi is going to be your typical "low" setting I would recommend more than a 10psi spring in your wastegate to help your boost controller do its job.
As soon as I finish tuning my setup all three springs go back into my PHR wastegate and my new "low" setting will be 16psi. Makes the boost controllers job (and mine adjusting it) easier than if I left the 10psi springs in.
Ihor -- if you are listening, you might want to take note of this.
K
ie 10 psi spring, 12 psi setting is cake for the boost controller. 10 psi spring, 20psi setting becomes more of a challenge for the boost controller and will require more "tinkering" to get it just right.
If you aren't going to run 10psi on the road and 15 or 16psi is going to be your typical "low" setting I would recommend more than a 10psi spring in your wastegate to help your boost controller do its job.
As soon as I finish tuning my setup all three springs go back into my PHR wastegate and my new "low" setting will be 16psi. Makes the boost controllers job (and mine adjusting it) easier than if I left the 10psi springs in.
Ihor -- if you are listening, you might want to take note of this.
K
11-04-02, 01:04 PM
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hey vokso, didnt you and ihor race and he killed you i just had to throw that in, but i hear after some further tuning you'll be running up there
also seems to me ErnieT is bad ***
i just had to throw that in, but i hear after some further tuning you'll be running up therealso seems to me ErnieT is bad ***
11-04-02, 01:10 PM
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right now i have a .8-1.2 KG/CM^2 spring
i raced ihor @ 9psi he said he was spiking to 1.25 kg/cm^2 *18psi or something !* lol
my wideband was pegged at 10.0 when on boost oh well. it was fun
i raced ihor @ 9psi he said he was spiking to 1.25 kg/cm^2 *18psi or something !* lol
my wideband was pegged at 10.0 when on boost oh well. it was fun
11-04-02, 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by ErnieT
This is funny stuff! I've heard it all. I suppose you can just go out and run 20lb of boost without tuning? You ain't the brightest bulb, are ya?
This is funny stuff! I've heard it all. I suppose you can just go out and run 20lb of boost without tuning? You ain't the brightest bulb, are ya?
11-04-02, 01:44 PM
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BTW: Ihor - your map has significantly more fuel correction for colder weather than the stock map ... so much more yes, you are probably running a bit rich now that the temps are cooler... Much better than the opposite which would have been the case if you had the default air temp v/s INJ correction factors...mucho kudo's to Dave if he purposely made this change to his maps.
Be sure to share your 20psi dyno's... you should hit 500rwhp no problem if your 15 - 20 psi gains are as significant as your 10 - 15psi gains!
K
Be sure to share your 20psi dyno's... you should hit 500rwhp no problem if your 15 - 20 psi gains are as significant as your 10 - 15psi gains!
K
11-04-02, 01:51 PM
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If you were originally tuned with 50C intake temps (it was pretty hot, right?), the default correction map would be adding only 5.5% more fuel with 10C intake temps (probably about what you are seeing now)...not enough additional fuel!
Your map adds about 15% more ... sounds like that is a bit too much.
K
Your map adds about 15% more ... sounds like that is a bit too much.
K
Last edited by nocab72; 11-04-02 at 01:54 PM.
11-05-02, 09:51 AM
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i thought the t78 is good on top?
and for anyone else reading this that is thinking the t78 can't hold up against the gt35/40...vosko's car is not fully tuned at higher psi.
luigi
and for anyone else reading this that is thinking the t78 can't hold up against the gt35/40...vosko's car is not fully tuned at higher psi.
luigi
11-05-02, 10:01 AM
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well ihor gets the jump on me of course because his turbo is BB. it was fun but no more messing around for me until i'm tuned. at around 5000rpm the car tries to lift the front tires. when i'm on boost my AFR gauge read 10.0 (that is the lowest it goes it could be even richer!) my car won't even go part throttle it is so rich....we both need tuning bad. i wanna datalog my wideband and haltech at the drag strip and tune from there
