saxyman990

Sure, give polydyn (I think they have a website: www.polydyn.com) a call at 1-888-765-9396. If I get a chance, I'll give them a call later on today to get some price quotes. There are also some other very good coating companies throughout the entire US. I would recommend searching for a good one in your local area. You'll save on shipping, plus you'll get to see the process and equipment first-hand (most places will give you a tour and show you exactly what they do to your parts). I personally don't think that polydyn is that much better than many other companys to justify the shipping costs and delivery times.

-Rob

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

I think you are reading to far into what I have said. Using your own words you said,"The maximum (theoretical) temperature of combustion, This usually occurs at stoichiometric (chemical reaction) conditions". So according to what you are saying, you basically agree but are putting it in a different context. I was under the impression that flame temperatures are needed to cure the coatings, that the coatings only come partially cured. I am also under the impression that adiabatic doesn't refer to maximum temperatures, it just refers temperatures where there is no loss or gain to the surronding.

Thats not the impression I am under, but then again I HAD been getting a lot of the information from a second hand source.

Well it appears that this information is not given to the public, so I'll have to find out what I should or should not be saying. The numbers I have here are extremly high compared to most other automotive companies.




I never said my shop. I said in the shop.
That is not what I have seen, we have used almost every automotive brand coating on the market. Most do not last, nor even make munch of a worthwhile diffference. Again that is just my experience.

Yes Poldyn is my supplier, I have mentioned this many times in the past, especially when I first started making Rx-7 manifolds. From the internet crowd I was getting a lot of heat mentioning details about the coatings, and polydyn's history. Just like on here, there is a reason I have been vaque with a lot of questions, sure some of my answers are not correct, I am only human, I do make mistakes, and not all the information I had been getting from a second hand source was correct. I never said anything incorrectly to intentionally gain any sales.

I wasn't going to post because I don't see a reason to spend much time on the internet, its just a bunch of people talking, hell I bet maybe 1% of the people on this or reading this will even buy ANY brand coating for any of their stuff. But after I start getting phone calls from customers, I guess I feel the need to come on here and post..

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

Again the information you have recieved is not the same I have here.

The techniques and temperatures are lot different that what you have been told.

It appears this information is not public, so I'm not going to post it until I ok it with them.

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

I advertise everything available to the public at MSRP, but again I have to add shipping to and from Polydyn. After I get back from my flight this week to meet with Carl, I will lay it out pretty well in a website.

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

Kevin,

I sent Polydyn a few complete rotary engines to be coated. Several new prototype coatings where done on the side plates, and the rotor housings. These coatings are a combination of heat rejection and oil attraction/retention. There is a motor I built running around on the street with over 5K miles on it, that recieved all of those coatings, plus the rotors, beaings, pump etc etc. I thought the factory rotor housing coating was just for breakin and wore off within that time frame.

Speaking of having the seals done, I just finished ultrasonic cleaning several motors, inprepation to be coated, and I planned on doing the corner and side seals. Again I don't know if its true or not, but I saw on a supposed factory race prep manual that they do the same.

jimmyv13

I talked to a local company extensively through email about the coatings for my parts. They gave me a not-so-detailed procedure of what will be done and mentioned they did not want to disclose their procedure. I respect their privacy, and if I don't like the coating, I'll get it removed and try someone else. At a cost of $50 plus shipping, I might as well try. I figured I'd try the manifold first, then if I like it, I'll get the rest of the parts done by them. Their prices are great, I'm hoping that does not reflect their quality. They have done rotary parts before and I spoke with the 7 owner. He couldn't say enough good things about them, so I sent them my manifold.

jimmyv13

They didn't really go into specifics as to why...but they did say that dipping some manifolds yielded some results they were not happy with.

jimmyv13

Yes, QC coatings is the company. They have a website, google it and it'll come up. I spoke with Bill Walker. I'll let everyone know what this thing turns out like when I get it back.

saxyman990

Wow. I'm actually really impressed that you actually responded Elliot. I was afraid for a little while that we may have scared you away.

Basically, we are arguing semantics. Which is exactly my point. You don't even know the definitions of the words you're spewing forth. It seems from my end that you're just spouting off $10 words in an effort to sound smart, yet you really have no clue what you're talking about.


Whoa now.... hold the phone! You're telling me that you're hyping the sales of a product (your own personal sales, I might add) by stating facts and figures from a SECONDARY SOURCE??!! You mean to tell me that not all of the info you have comes direct from your supplier (polydyn)? But instead it's hearsay from some other person? That's like a ferrari dealer saying "Well you should buy this Enzo because Jimmy-Joe-Bob told me that it will do 3000mph"

I'm sorry, but if you're selling a product, I personally think that you need to know what it is you're selling. If you don't have all the details or knowledge, then don't pretend you do in order to keep your sales up. Research it, and find the correct information that people are asking for.

I have nothing against you personally, or your coatings for that matter. But your actions remind me of a sleazy used-car dealer.


I'm not exactly Johnny-Q-Public. And these numbers you speak of, they are the ones from a "secondhand source?"


You apparently have a very limited experience base. Ceramic Coating is nothing new, and good quality coatings hold up just fine. My father has had a set of ceramic headers on his ~600rwhp Charger for the last ~15 years. They still look brand new.


Interesting, I've done some searches on this forum and the only post where you mentioned polydyn has absolutely nothing to do with coating (something about a car show). So did you delete these posts like you apparently did with the posts over at nopistons (I don't frequent over there so I don't know)? What kind of heat were you getting about these posts?


Again, second hand information? wow... unbelieveable.
I'm not saying that you're not allowed to make mistakes. You're completely right, we are all only human and make mistakes quite often (myself included). Maybe I'm making a mistake right here, but it sure seems to me (and many others in this thread, I might add), that you're being vague because you don't know what you're talking about, but you're trying desperately to make it look like you do.



So your customers are starting to call you because they are concerned about the idea that they might not get exactly what you promised them? I don't blame them...


So let me get this straight: You're going to charge the same price as polydyn would charge, but you'll also add in a little buffer to account for the shipping charges. That makes sense, you wouldn't want to loose money on shipping. But explain to us what the advantage is to going through you, instead of cutting out the middle man and going straight to Polydyn (or any other equally qualified coater)?




I look forward to your posts about these "top secret" coatings and processes when you finally get a chance to talk with polydyn about it. Hopefully, you'll post back here with some more information when that time comes (and hopefully it won't be based on second-hand misinformation).

-Rob

jimmyv13

revvin,

Deleting posts in your thread on nopistons isn't cool if you're trying to sell yourself as a good businessman. If someone comes to you and questions your business and you get upset with the questions are you going to turn around and pretend they are not there?

What's the difference if a customer sends his parts to you instead of directly to Polydyne? Besides the customer saving some $$. Are they doing something special to the parts that you send to them that don't do to regular Joe Schmoe's parts?

Matt Hey

Here's a ceramic supplier that sells to the public...

http://www.techlinecoatings.com/

They even have a cermet coating. Anyone tried these products? Are prices in line with buying through a place like Polydyn? Any other comments?

'89Vert

So my motor was recently rebuilt and coated by Elliot....

I'm pretty sure that's my engine he's talking about. He finished work on it in early october. I want to say that i have experienced nothing but satisfaction with the engine and his work. The Polydyn coatings, particularly on the headers, as well as every other part in that engine are very attractive as well as beneficial. I do have a noticable drop in underhood temperatures, at least with the "hey that didn't burn my hand off" thermometer. I just want it to be known that I'm a satisfied customer.

As for the other stuff, there's not much else I can say because i'm not involved, but I am happy with his work.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

I don't think anyone is saying his stuff is crap. It's actually the other way around. He was saying all the other coating people were crap. That's basically how this whole thing started.

banzaitoyota

STILL: No one has provided Emperical evidence supporting these claims on a Rotary Engine. Just a buch of butt-dyno responses. No temps/no thermography/no nothing.

Now, before you jump on my response: I am one of those types who is willing to experiment. I have cryo'd/cryo-remmed/rem polished quite a few pieces, but I have not conducted any data collection as yet. I still have to assemble my Engine Dyno to document my personal findings. When I get results I will post my observations backed by DATA, not a butt-dyno

sonix7

we are waiting Bazai, this is the real way of proving theory, data backed up research. That's what its all about as long as its unbiased. Thanx

pistonsuk

Thanks saxyman990 for the prep info.

I was wondering what performance differences these different brands (Techline, Polydyn, others????) of coatings have. Or even the difference between professional applied coatings verses DIY.

I do have access to DAQ equitment including a thermal imaging camera. I was thinking of...

Machining identical test plates (i.e. 2"x2"x1/8") from alum. Then coating one side with the different brands and or methods (of course leaving one uncoated for a control). Then expose the coated side to a consistant heat source like a flame from a propane torch. Watch the other side with the thermal imaging camera or datalog a thermocouple. Compare these responses, a slow transient response would mean a good coating.

Any input? What other brands would be good canidates? Would anyone offering a coating or coating service want to participate?

Justin

CantGoStraight

Just curious if you used an inside contact or is it a company we could also send our parts to. One thing I'd like to undestand better is: Should the parts only be coated on the inside ?? The reason I as is because I spent time and money to polish the outside, and was going to have them powder coated clear, but was told they would have to be sandblasted for the powder coating to adhere. If this is true of regular powder coating, then I would have to guess that the same would be true for the creamic coatings as well. If it should only be applied to the inside then the polishing doesn't mater and the bennifits would be doubled, pretty and functional. Thanks for your personal expertese and getting clarifacation on this coating. Jack

Kento

Wow, interesting thread. I need to browse through this forum more often...

CantGoStraight

bump waiting on reply from saxyman990

saxyman990

Wow, I completely lost track of this thread. Thanks for the memory-jog.

The company I usually use is Aesthetic Finishers in Piqua, OH (www.afipowder.com). Their shop is about a 15 minute drive from my house. Phone number is: 937-778-8777, ask for Greg. He's extremely knowledgeable and will help you with just about any question you may have.

Parts do not need to be sand-blasted for powder or ceramic coating to adhere, but they do need to be prepped in someway. AFI does NOT use silica sand-blasting, nor do they recommend it (silica and silicone based products can cause increased out-gassing during the cure phase). Rather, they use a thermal stripper, alkaline washing, flash rust sealer and a few other treatments. They do coat both the inside and the outside of the parts (unless you specifically request them not to). There are mixed schools of thought on coating the outside/inside/both. IMO, there is no reason to only coat the inside. In addition to adding protection and durability to the metal, coating the exterior will also help in decreasing heat radiation into the engine bay.


I personally use AFI because they are local to me, and I know they do good work. But keep in mind that any reputable coating company should be able to produce good results. Just to give you a few examples of some of my parts:

Here is a picture of my nasty-*** manifolds after I pulled the engine (55k miles)



Here is a picture after they were ceramic coated. The exhaust/dp is coated with AFI's black 2000deg coating, and the intakes are coated with the "chrome" 1300. I did not polish any of these parts prior to prep (but they were prepped using the techniques mentioned above). The intakes are still a little bumpy from the original casting. If I had polished them, they would be smooth as glass right now. But, I didn't really want that look. Also note that the intakes still have some of the residue from the coating process (white chalky stuff). That was wiped/polished off later. Even after many miles, the parts still look like they were just done.



Manifolds bolted to the engine:




Engine in the car:



Hope that helps a little bit.

-Rob

FSTFBDY

That looks good.

I try and tell anyone who asks Can you coat just the outside of my exh. In ceramic its a waste of your time and $$. Ceramic was designed as a thermal barrier. Looks was just a 2nd part of it. If you only do the outside your still gonna get condensation on the inside and rust from the inside out. Same as if you don't vibratory polish it. You get the DIY guys who want to do the ceramic but have no way to polish the inside of the pipes. The ceramic beads used to polish the parts also burnish the surface and "seal" the ceramic.

As for how to prep em. There are tons of diff ways. I use Alum oxide on most parts that get ceramic coated. You do need a good bite for the ceramic to adhere to.

Also Pre-bake the parts at a higher temp than you cure them at. This is the best way to out gas stuff. Pull it out of the oven and let it come down to a good temp before you shoot the parts. In the 6years Ive been coating I haven't had anything come back yet. (knock on wood)

saxyman990

1revvin7: it's been a few weeks since your scheduled meeting with polydyn, and you promised that you would give some details on what transpired. So what's the skinny?

-Rob

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

Gosh you sure do like putting words into my mouth.

Why should I bother posting moot techincal information?
Anyone who is serious doesn't care about that, that information just concerns keyboard chasers.

GregW

Common man, I need that info, Im runnin TX7 and my turbo spools soo much it shoots 6000deg lightning out it. After a boost run my mani is a pile of slag. The gold coating of mirth is the only thing that can save me.

saxyman990

I like putting words in your mouth? Odd... I could have sworn you said something along the lines of:

Page 4 of this thread:
Page 2 of the "other forum" thread:
Based on the above posts, I guess I just assumed that you were interested in assimilating the correct info from your source, and then posting some of it, in an effort to clear everything up (and possibly prove me wrong). But I suppose I completely misunderstood.

Interesting that you say anyone who is serious doesn't care about technical information. My experience shows just the opposite. Those who are interested in a product have a desire (and a right) to know what they're purchasing.

-Rob