FD3SEngineering

iTrader: (4)

Hey Guys,
I had a customer ask us to make him the ultimate street/weekend toy within his means. He has a pretty good budget and has researched what parts he wants to use. We are starting with a 1993 R1 Chassis, black on black. So, here is the build.

Parts list:
Brand new OEM 13b-REW. Street ported, Oil Modded.
Xcessive oil pan with Pineapple baffles
Xcessive lower intake manifold
Aspec 500r turbo kit
Synapse wastegate + blow off valve
Knightsports V-mount (Intake, radiator, intercooler)
Gotham Racing dual oil cooler kit
Idler pulley kit.
Jacobs or HKS twin power
FJO injector driver (Included it a lot of parts purchased)
Bosch 044 pumps
KG-Parts fuel system (May change)
Spec Stage 4 clutch + flywheel (May change)
Jspec close ratio transmission
Mazdaspeed short throw shifter
Reinforced PPF
Kaaz 1.5
Racing Brake BBK
Volk TE 37's
New bushings all around
Tein Flex's
Full 99 spec body
Custom chassis bracing (Strut tower, front/rear, fenders, underside.)
AEM/DEFI gauges
Full stereo, Efini steering wheel, passenger foot rest.
More that I am forgetting.

All new gaskets, waterpump, sensors, hoses.

I am trying to decide on a ECU (AEM, Vipec, good old Power FC) and water injection.

Any input is welcome, photos will be up soon.

The first thing we had to tackle was some unexpected body damage. The passenger headlight was sitting up 1/2 inch. After removing all the body work,
the drivers side frame rail had been pushed back nearly 1" and then rewelded.
After months of bodyshop issues, we are picking the car up this week.

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

Use whichever ECU the person tuning it knows best. Put a new engine harness on the list too...

TRWeiss1

iTrader: (20)

+1 on the wiring harness! Those things FRY from underhood temps. I replaced mine, and am very glad I did. The last thing you need to fail is the wiring running to your injectors...

FD3SEngineering

iTrader: (4)

I knew I forgot something . We have a brand new harness

ZoominFD

should be a sweet FD... pics when you're done please.

TRWeiss1

iTrader: (20)

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Sounds a little bit like my car with that mod list

I take it he's already purchased the Gotham dual oil cooler back when my old shop was in business?

I'd definitely recommend an Exedy twin disc over anything spec makes. This is based on personal experience.

Add a quality Aquamist water injection system to the list, as well as DEI fire sleeving (in 3/8 and 5/8) and DEI 1 inch Velcro heat wrap. We use about $150-200 worth on all single turbo builds. Oh yeah, and some quality ceramic coating for the downpipe/exh mani/turbine housing too

Sesshoumaru

iTrader: (1)

I would go with Haltech P2k.

Alot of support and alot of bang for the buck.

Any reputable rotary tuner will have tuned a haltech (not that they are much different than any other EMS)

gansan79

I wanted Volk CE28Ns Mark! Don't order the wrong ones now

mitch32

I'm sure you know but AEM makes a super nice water meth kit and the price is very good. Their costumer service is also super good. For ecu always go with what the tuner likes the most, at the end its what he/she is the most comfortable with, not which ecu is better.

Your car is going to be super nice when done.

G's 3rd Gen

iTrader: (11)

Very nice! Good luck w/ it. G

Sesshoumaru

iTrader: (1)

I would disagree on just giong what a tunner likes.

What happens when he moves/closes/you move/etc?

I've seen some ECUs that just are not rotary friendly but work great on pistions and alot of tuners are "comfortable" with them b/c of pistons.

an example would be the TEC3 by electromotive - great product... rotary no...

Have some people done it? - yes.... and others have also failed.

alot of ecu's just dont' deal well with the rotary well and are not designed with that in mind and only add it as a feature later.

Why would u limit your growth also? -

Take for instance the PFC - great plug/play tunner but very very limited. Some people have a hard time running big injectors in primaries and have to adjust injector lag instead of using a injector dead times. Does not have alot of input/outputs/resolution/etc but is simple and effective.

Now he bought a new harness which is 600 bucks or so. So the PFC is a decent option since it uses a stock harnes and is fairly cheap (prolly need the commander also)... couldn't get much simpler.....

Now condiser the average joe that upgrades.... 600+cost of ECU is going to be more than another stand alone with a flying lead.

So why would u tell someone to buy a PFC for instance and spending the same or more while limiting nearly everything they can do? Because the tunner is not used to looking at a different font on a injector table?

Tunning isn't rocket science.... it's not the interface that is important but the application of the tuners knowledge - timing/fuel/corrections/etc

You migh tnot need alot of input/outputs righ tnow but down the road you might want to add a 2nd fuel pump/AI/TT/BC/2step/etc.... they get eaten up fast.

Plus if you ever want to go 3 rotor not many can support that easily.

13bmaniac

iTrader: (5)

Nice parts for a built...
If you have a new harness go with the aem ems.

I have a microtech lt16 and never been happyer in my life, that of course if you want to dish or sold the harness in favor of a super good stand alone....

RX72NR

iTrader: (1)

good luck with the build!

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

use something else. i've been a big fan of ACT, and that's what i'd recommend, but there are other viable options as well - just nix the SPEC!

ErnieT

iTrader: (2)

No offense, but you have NO IDEA about what you talking about. The Tec 3 is great on a rotary. I've used. Demetrios K used it on his pro mod rx7. Ken Sheepers didnt run fast till he used it. The list goes on and on. If it fails, more times then not, its the TUNER that failed, not the ecu.
To the thread starter. Use whichever ecu your tuner is most comfortable using, PERIOD.

Sesshoumaru

iTrader: (1)

Yes I’m aware of people running the TEC3 and works great for them. That was my original stance.

But there has been more than one person that hasn't gotten it to work also.

It wasn't the tuner I would say but probably the installation (trigger related).

I don’t' like putting specifics and people’s names but It was one of the bigger tuners that had a go at it.

I would say it would be the installation that fails the most be it be bad crimp or flipped inductors etc and for any EMS system not just TEC3.....

From my understanding to use the TEC3 on the rotary you will need to alter the pulley wheel (by welding the wheel to pulley). If not done properly it can warp etc.... blah blah

Which is the application/install side (which like I said is the most common problem with EMS).

This is why I said it wasn't great for the FD - due to the added complexity of install - not of its ability to run a rotary. I would have liked to seen them add the ability to use the stock wheel.

I guess I do take offense not necessary at the post - but more of the underlying attitude of the post/forum anymore.

It has become less of a civil debate but more of a "you know nothing and wrong". Sure I’m not a expert a but that don’t mean I have no clue. If I am wrong explain to me why I'm wrong so that I may be enlightened.

I really wish there was more substance to arguments. Why are they making more power? Is the resolution? The wheel better because less slop/play in timing? A better interface? Was it due to their ignition system? I mean how is someone supposed to make a decision?

I guess to the original poster - "Do what your tuner wants - or better yet what your customer wants” - there- I said the cliché and now this thread will be at peace.

I'll resign and sorry for polluting your thread......

ErnieT

iTrader: (2)

Its hard not to come off like I do when people post as if they have first hand knowledge and are totally wrong giving missinformation.
You do not need to alter any pulley wheel by welding or otherwise. Dont know where you get your info, but you couldn't be further from accurate. The tec unit comes with its own trigger wheel which bolts right to the stock location. Thats it. Nothing crazy complicated there. The original tec 3 had some glitches which the Tec3R addressed. Since then its a great ecu, not that any of the others aren't either.

Sesshoumaru

iTrader: (1)

A while ago a local Iowa guy tried it (using a PFS made wheel) and others noted using the 60-2 wheel that they welded on.

https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/gotham-racing-gt42r-buildup-650-hp-720511/page10/

If they do come with bolt on wheels that certainly would make it a simple job.

ErnieT

iTrader: (2)

If you read his post, nothing ever says a PFS made wheel. There is no such thing. Never has been. The wheel has always bolted on. The person that started the thread may have installed the trigger wheel wrong which would advance or retard the timing.

Sesshoumaru

iTrader: (1)

Sorry I should be more specific on that long thread (not sure how to quote external threads).

I was refering to posts 248-250.

In response to the question on who made the wheel (post 246) he says it's made by PFS.

AnthonyNYC and classicauto talk about welding the wheels from electromotive - post 248 and 250.

not sure if they just chose to do it or didn't know a bolt on was availble but I would think the bolt on method would be mroe reliable.

allrotor93

iTrader: (126)

the tec3r is one of the best systems but most of the tuners are in the northeast. i remember dee saying it was the absolute best setup.

on a side note...i have almost every part on your list if you want them

rotaryinspired

iTrader: (3)

I hope your customer is aware of the Kaaz and how it clunks on the street. I do not like it for a street car. Personal preference on my part.

trocksdis

Sorry i jumped in late on this, been out with the flu. The TEC 3R is a great unit, and yes i work for the company. Remember the highest percentage of engine failure is ignition and timing related, and this is double fold with rotary engines! This is what this product specializes in and why no one else has it. It is a complex ignition system, but when installed and TUNED right, there is not another system to match it.

Sesshoumaru

iTrader: (1)

I would agree it is one of the best systems and It's strength comes from being a complete system.

The ignition is top notch as your going to get minus a CDI and the timming accuracy is impecable.

Ignition to trigger it was all designed to work together and does so quite well.

This is unlike other systems where they make a factory wheel work with stock coils and many other different permutaions.

Its not a bad price for the whole system but alot of people don't need or want to replace everything on their system (say a FD owner already has a HKS twin power and is happy with his ign for his power level).

If it's a ground up "no holds bar" install/build maybe that is the route they want to take. I just think these types of things should be considered in choosing an EMS not just the tunner.

I believe a tuner does have a say in the decision but I feel it shouldn't be the sole reason for choosing a EMS.

But my point is - getting the system implemented on to the rotary is not necessary the easiest because it comes as a "complete system".

From what ErnieT said they make a bolt on wheel and that would greatly increase the ease of install imo and I was not aware of that.

If you can get past the install (I still believe #1 issue with ALL EMS) then you have yourself a mighty fine system.

I just feel that for the normal joe/installer or what have you, would find difficulty with the install where as most other systems commonly used on Rx7's have 100's of install threads and diagrams with a wealth of people familar with the system.

Bottom line is - If you have to ask what EMS you should run I would say the TEC3 is a bit more than you should be chewing on.