Korican_boy

Just recently bought myself a BW EFR 8374 EWG, I'm planning on going to e85 on my track days only & go back to pump when I'm cruising or taking long distance trips... So what's a good fuel system setup?! So far I already have my mind on CJM fuel rail Kit, ID injectors, & CJM dual pump assembly hanger.... I just need know what size injectors & what fuel pump to run? I'm aiming for 425ish-500hp....

silverTRD

iTrader: (37)

Why bother switching back and forth? E85 is all but proven to be superior to gasoline. Why not only run e85?

Arca_ex

iTrader: (3)

You could go with FFE rails and you could do four ID1300 injectors. They are the best offering from ID for alternative fuels and made with E85 in mind. I like the Bosch 044 but there are a couple different pump options out there.

Most likely the problem most people have, availability.

Korican_boy

oh yea I know that, in my town I have a lot gas stations that offer e85 so that's no problem but if I wanna go to Denver which is an hour drive, they don't have many e85 stations & the town is huge so I don't wanna take a risk of running out of gas when I travel...

Korican_boy

Four 1300? I've always heard to go bigger secondary

Arca_ex

iTrader: (3)

Yeah why not? If you have a standalone then no problemo.

ID1300's are just better suited for e85. Also I used to think that the secondaries should be bigger too until I saw guys with the Xcessive LIM running two ID1000 primary and four ID2000 as secondaries. 3000CC worth of injector on the center ports vs. 2000CC worth of injector on the outer ports and no problems.

My setup will have six ID1300's and they'll supply more fuel than I'll ever need even with an EFR9180.

Vicoor

The reason most people run bigger secondary injectors is so that they can run smaller primary injectors which are thought to be easier to tune for idle / low load conditions. This is less an issue with high quality matched injectors, but still worth considering.

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

4 x 1300 won't be enough fuel for 500 whp on E85. All the ID injectors will work fine with E85. Use a1000 primary and 2000 secondary. More fuel and less expensive than a 4 x 1300 combo.

Can't go wrong with CJ or FFE for the rails. FFE is an ID dealer as well and offers package deals on the fuel systems. CJ may as well. Not sure on their pricing.

The Bosch 044 is a great pump but is a total pita to fit a pair in the tank with a CJ hanger.

What ECU are you running? You're planning a flex fuel strategy?

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

Economy. Price being relatively close per gallon, gasoline is a lot less expensive to run given an approximate 30% mpg advantage.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

"recently bought myself a BW EFR 8374"

"aiming for 425ish-500hp"



while it is fine to have a power target that happens to be less than max output from your turbo your fuel capacity should match max flow output so as not to detonate from a lean condition when your wastegate sticks.

the 8374 can flow 77 pounds which is 580.

you will want to be at 10.0 if this happens.

using my logged data which aligns w someone else on the board...

577 peak SAE rwhp required a 52% IDC on E74. this was derived from more than 30 runs to 8650 both in fourth and fifth gear.

4 Bosch EV14 2000/2200 injectors (i use 2100)

4 X 2100 = 8400 X .52 = 4368 X .87 (to remove slippage due to lag) = 3800 CC net into the engine to make 570.

BSFC 58.8

your max fuel needs for 570 would then be

3800 X 1.149 (to add back lag)= 4368 X 1.176 (to adjust for 85% max IDC) = 5138 CC/Min for 8374 turbo. since i was at E74 i would add another 5%.

5138 X 1.05 = 5395 CC

4 X 1300 = 5200 (ID 1300s) close enough assuming you have fuel delivery.

preliminarily i would suggest you take a look at running 4 ASNU/Bosch 1650 injectors as they are alcohol (actually water) resistant like the ID1300s and would give you some additional headroom.

as to pump:

i refer you to my Fuel Pumps 2014 stickied thread in this section and recommend the Walbro PN 9000267 which is designed for E85 and will more than meet your needs when combined w a Kenne Bell Boost A Pump.

i am working w someone out of the USA who this morning sent me a picture of his fuel system and, while it is beautifully fixtured, it looks like Milwaukee's water works. most often when your run multiple pumps and sumps you end up recycling your fuel thru the loop and lose flow thu the fittings. (see Kenne Bell's tech site for actual data)

the BAP only gets rolling under boost and is so simple to install. set it and forget it and at 16 V the 9000267 puts out 580 liters per hour at 60 psi!


"My setup will have six ID1300's and they'll supply more fuel than I'll ever need even with an EFR9180."

9180


the 9180 will do 92 pounds...

92/77 = 1.195

1.195 X 5395 = 6447 Gross injector capacity

6 X 1300 = 7800.

looks good to me.

howard

chohakai

iTrader: (1)

Have you (or anyone else on this board) thought of a potentially awesome setup (credit to my buddy who thought of this years ago):

Have a primary rail and tank running pump gas with say ID1000's;
Have a secondary rail and tank running E85 gas with say ID2000's;

Woola, best of both worlds. You can cruise around in light throttle without going into secondaries all day long without the need of tapping into your secondary injection or fuel. Running E85 only when you really need it and have it (when it's scarce).

This is providing that you have some kind of safety on the secondary rail, and limit boost/or dump fuel/timing drastically to prevent going into boost when secondary is empty. An inline flow meter integrated with the ECU would be perfect as the safety device.

I'd love to see someone to try it, wink wink (Howard)

Arca_ex

iTrader: (3)

Sounds like a much more difficult, complex and expensive way to basically do the same thing as a water/meth setup lol.

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

It's been done. Think there have been some Drag Week setups that are dual fuel. Gas and methanol. I know of a couple other gas/methanol dual fuel setups. Syvecs ECU has programming to suit in that it allows you to dial out the primaries any amount you like as the secondaries come on line. And then change that tune up on the fly.

One of the problems you get into is that 2000cc secondaries alone won't get you very far since you're turning the primaries off.

Korican_boy

I see hmmmmm CJM gives me other options of what type of pumps I wanna mount on....
Right now I have a Power FC but I'll be selling those for an Adaptronic PnP & have Elliot from Turbosource remotely tune it (I don't have a tuner here in Colorado). And yes I plan running a flex fuel sensor... But yes the reason I wanna keep running back & forth is availability & right now e85 cost more than pump as of now....

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

Nelsonracingenines has been doing the dual fuel system stuff for as long as I can remember. 1500 plus tt v8 cars.