Jason94R2

iTrader: (3)

Think the IWG on the 8374 could keep the boost under control on street port car looking for ~400 wheel(with the ability for a max of 500 if i up the boost)

Jason

Full-Race Geoff

absolutely - yes. The EFR's internal wg is very large and has a veryyyy high flow rate for an iwg... I have not seen any single instance of boost creep with these turbos on any engine to date

For your <500hp target this would be an excellent match as long as you dont plan to turn the boost up so high that it maxxes out the 0.92 a/r (around ~520-530whp and 26-28psi). Attached is a photo from one of our customers that's planning to try this setup out

mannykiller

iTrader: (93)

Geoff...... so I've heard good and bad about the New Titanium wheels... Rotaries run pretty hot EGT's and it seems as if Ti may be right on the verge of that line...around 1700 F.... Have they been tested at the above Egt's at all?I'm very interested! With a 0.92 A/r...it's going to take every bit of 25psi on E85 to get to 520-530 WHP even with the bridge...

Cosmo_TT

iTrader: (11)

Does the 9180 have the same hot side as the one in that pic? The two grooves? Or is that an internal gate thing?

dabigesii

iTrader: (4)

It's the same, but I think it comes as a 1.05 divided hotside instead of .92.

Jason94R2

iTrader: (3)

This is excellent news. Take it a custom manifold would be smart so the turbo sits where there is room for the wastegate actuator since its somewhat limited in where you could move it to?

Jason

Full-Race Geoff

some engine/chassis combinations require custom EFR specific turbo manifolds - however most 13B rx7 top mount manifolds position the turbo forwards enough that adequate clearance exists away from the strut tower for the IWG actuator. You can blockoff the original wg port and run the IWG if you wanted... Keep in mind the EWG 1.05 a/r is much more compact than the IWG version, almost the same fitment as the other s300 airwerks turbos or the garrett gt40r's

all the EFR turbos are available as singlescroll T3 or twinscroll T4. The "two grooves" you are asking about is specific to the twinscroll housings and each are jokingly referred to as "camel toe" or "mooseknuckle" and is this specific shape becuase each volute is truly round - not D shaped like most airwerks or garret turbos. the round shape gets a small bump in efficiency


heres some info on EGTs -- first of all, most modern rotaries are running a BW, garrett or precision turbo. All of the precision turbos and the lower priced BW's and garretts use turbine housings made from ductile iron. A good general rating for Ductile is 700 to 730C (1300 to 1350F max rated temp). Most of the bw airwerks and higher end garrett turbos use a higher grade ductile iron such as Hi-Sil-Moly or Ni-Resist. (1450F max rated temp). Hi-Sil Moly is still a ductile iron casting however the addition of silicon in the alloy goes to the surface of the casting and helps prevent rust while the Molybdenum increases stability and helps prevent cracking at higher temperature. I have yet to see an RX7 13B crack an HSM housing, however we have seen the ductile iron units crack on road raced applications, especially common on the heavy evo X -- Why I Love Precision Turbos - EvoXForums.com - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X Forums

^^^reading that above, if you are truly at 1700F sustained EGT, you will crack/melt most any standard turbine housing. BW engineering states 1742°F as the limit for the Titanium Aluminide turbine wheel. here is a clipped conversation with BW engineering on the topic:

We can only assume your 1700F EGT temp is seen for only very short periods of time, thats the only possible reason why we don’t see more airwerks housing failures on gasoline spark ignition engines, like on high boost tractor/sled pull diesels. For reference, BW recently had a report of significant damage on two HSM S500SX housings after three tractor pull events at 1100°C (2012°F) !!!!! They’re running two 88mm S500SX’s; at 4.6 bar boost…! We know the wheel does well within these limits but we don’t have much experience with what happens past that. If you think your application is possibly going to exceed that value - try to get me a better idea of how hot the max is (even if only on occasion)"

any questions i can not answer, I am happy to ask the BW engineers to make a judgment call. now regarding previous efr failures -- none were temp related. there were 2 causes:

a)defective turbine wheels: first supplier was in the USA. they have been fired. 2nd supplier is in japan, no issues.

b)These turbos have no problem with antilag or 2 steps, but if you overspeed an EFR you can break the titanium aluminide wheel. These turbos can make crazy boost pressures and that means it is possible to overspeed it. Also if you have a giant boost leak and try to run 30+ psi you can overspeed it... We have a tractor pull 5.9L diesel customer who tried running 55psi boost on a 9180 (running it wayyy off the compressor map, overspeeding by 40k rpm) and that obviously damaged the turbo. all i can say is if you want to push an EFR to its max (its a LOT of fun to do this) make sure to watch shaft speed data !

Jason94R2

iTrader: (3)

Will the EFR/IWG clear with your manifold?

Jason

Cosmo_TT

iTrader: (11)

What psi is the 9180 best at? Like a range, 20-24, or 27-30, or 35-39?
Any clue on what psi it would need to push 80-90lbs?

Full-Race Geoff

Every modified engine is different and has a different VE. I am not familiar with enough with the different 13B variations and VE points, the best bet is to use a known-good configuration and work backwards to solve for VE. then take a look at the matchbot webpage and play around with it to see where you are operating on the compressor map:

Performance Turbos | TurboDriven.com - BorgWarner Turbo Systems

If you would like to try, post up a link to your match and I'll share any input i have



yes, the photo I attached above is a FR manifold with 8374 IWG. <<BTW: not necessary to do, but even more IWG clearance can be had by using the IWG bracket from the 7670 and 7064 IWG. It fits right onto the 8374 and 9180>

davidleonardi

Hi,

I just purchased the Borg Warner S300-SX3 part number 177283. I'd like to use the stainless steel braided hoses for the inlet and outlet of the turbo. Could you advice which size of oil size I should use ?

Your reply is highly appreciated, thanks.

David L

Full-Race Geoff

-4an or -3an feed
-10 an drain

mannykiller

iTrader: (93)

Good info!!

mannykiller

iTrader: (93)

I just read that precision turbo link..... there is about 50 people complaining about their problems and failures.... go check it out for yourself...