SPOautos

Retaining the air pump isnt enough in some states. Some states require you to have the stock twins on the car.

Personally, I'm making over 400rwhp and traping 125 with granny driving on straight pump gas with 150lbs of extra wieght in the car such as a full tank of gas and a sub. Basically with less fuel, no sub, and so spare wheel/jack, and actually launching my car and doing a burnout I should be around 126-127. THIS IS ON PUMP GAS at about 18psi!!!!!

Why do I need more? Simplicity you ask? Like what I dont have hardly a vac line anywhere in my car, as a matter of fact I'm even running total manual boost. control. Its just a simple as a singel except more so since I didnt have to replace the oil feed/drain lines or bang in my frame with a 5lb hammer lol.. They just bolt right in, look stock, pass all inspections, and I'm traping mid/high 120's on pump gas.

NOW, I dont think its ever going to pass up the big singles making 450+rwhp BUT.... they do that on race gas anyway and I dont run race gas in my daily driver or at the track. Anyway, I think those power levels are but a new manifold design away

Just think, $2000 and you can keep all your same IC set up, down pipe, oil feed / drain lines, intake, ect ect ect

I dont see why you guys have a hard time seeing this....OR IS IT MAYBE A LITTLE DENIAL haha
STEPHEN

SPOautos

Oh yea, they also absoluty do NOT heat up the air. Let me put it like this, after about 13 pulls on the dyno and still running the same air intake temps as when I first got there. We were able to touch the wg rod and the intake housing on the pri turbo. That would not have been done on stockers.

The reason the stockers got SOOOO hot is they used 80's technology called carbon seals.....these do NOT use carbon seals, they use modern technology that eliminates a TON of friction. Which also makes them more reliable, cooler, able to handle high boost, and faster spool.

STEPHEN

spyfish007

I think the HKS system might have a CARB number? Anyone know? If it does than it can legally be on the car in California.

rotorbrain

stephen, it might be denial or it might be preference. . . i know mine is preference. my single might not make as much power as your twins, but i like the look a little more. . . besides, how much more can be modified on the twins? im not dissing the twins at all, they are bad. . . but what else can be done to them? (im sure bryan has a couple more ideas up his sleeve) i just like the vast amounts of profiles that are entered into the equation once a single turbo is brought up.

paul

mjw

iTrader: (1)

AFAIK there are no CARB legal systems for the FD from HKS.. I don't think the Greddy T-78 is either. The carb legal HKS kits are usually the 'sport turbos', they most often use the car's stock manifold and retain an internal wastegate. The TO4E, TO4R, T51 etc. are all listed as 'off-road only' to my knowledge. There is a carb legal turbo kit for the FC though.

Matt

Poweraxel

denial? i dont think so..you see to be the only one whos dynoed those twins..lets wait and see someone else dyno those turbos from a different area.. your statement of being in "denial" is rather weak.. you seem to forget your the only one whos posted results.. and as i read your post regarding these turbos that was like 10 pages long and you couldnt post your dyno sheet for the longest time, ill take your words with a grain of salt

you obviously think you have something to prove to us single turbo owners..its rather weird//// let me know when someone else "supposedly" puts the saqme power as you did

Steve

SPOautos

And like wise you obviously have something to prove to be trashing them. I'm mearly defending them and telling everyone both sides of the story....what are you doing???

And as for the dyno posts, I can only put up a sheet when I get it. It took me a while to get there, I'd think if anyone can understand that its you....people were herassing you for the longest time about your dyno sheets. Sure it way 10 pages but I got the numbers in less than a month. Which is pretty fast for a busy person such as myself.

Anyway, the mph i traped backs up the dyno and more.
Where is all the "proven" results and info on the twins kit you've been talking up so much on the other thread?

Fact is I have the dyno sheet AND time slips that both back up over 400rwhp easily.

As for life and longevity, what would it take to prove that? 50K miles??? There are many mid sized turbo kits on the market that no one has taken to 50K miles. How many miles need to be put on it to show that they are reliable? I can tell you this, mine are a prototype set that he didnt even balance the entire assembaly and I've been beating the **** out of them from day 1 and havent had a problem yet.

The statement about being in denial was a joke, hence the that I had there. But I do fine it funny how you guys get all defensive about these twins cause I'm posting good numbers and they only cost $2K and bolt right up with ease.

STEPHEN

RICE RACING

I dont want to inflame things here, but there is still a fair bit of difference comparing a 470bhp (Stephens engine) to a well prepared single car running similar boost say 540bhp in my case at that boost level.

There are merits to both systems, and I am sure that Stephen will agree on this issue, from shear weight of numbers single turbos have been proven. Given time and exposure and results from multiple users the same should happen with the super twins

Either way your car is fast man and pulls super power for "massaging" the std components, which is an effort worth admiring

SPOautos

Your right it is preference and also the fact that some people in certain states cant run a single, they have to stay stock. The twins can be modded more, mine dont even have a clip. The main thing is personally I feel with nothing more than a new exhaust manifold they will hole thier own against the large singles as well.

As a matter of fact the exh design I've dreamed up would still retain the stock dp, intake, IC, oil feed/drain setups as well....which means they wont need to cost as much.

We'll see though, the manifold might not ever happed, which is fine with me. I'm happy with my mid 120's on pump gas and conservative tuning.

STEPHEN

SPOautos

Your right, like I said earlier its not really comparing against the larger singles.

However, I'd also say you're prob getting quite a lot more power over me due to your HUGE porting versus my street port and barely any exhaust porting. With the additional porting I'd make more that the 485bhp I'm making now....would it be 70bhp more? (which is 59rwhp more). I dont know...you do have some major porting though so its prob not far fetched that I could gain close to that from having porting similar to yours. Hell non of my intake manifolds or tb is ported, and I'm running one of the more restrictive exhaust systems so it will remain quite.

But I do agree its probably not really a good comparison to a large single.

STEPHEN

Poweraxel

when did i "trash" the BNR turbos???

----I edited my post cause the words i used were too harsh and im sorry if i offended anybody!----

----Poweraxel---

FatalFD

I would like to know what the law states as far as having to have the stock twins on the car. Please tell me what states.

Why would any one want to keep the stock IC that is the biggest piece of crap out there.

I don't have a hard time seeing anything, I said they are another great alternative, you guys come on the single section and imply "could this be the end of the single?" and you expect to get a good response?

Just so everybody knows this is nothing new there were two companies in Australia doing this almost three years ago with the same results where do you think M2 got the idea?
Brett did come from Australia.

As far as denial goes, hardly. It sounds more to me like justification on your end.

RICE RACING

Hey Stephen my porting is only "mild"

Seriously though, to be making what you are, and run the speed you have is awsome indeed, hey if I had a third gen I would be very tempted to run that upgraded turbo as it would be plenty fast enough for me for a road car

Now stop being a girl and wind the boost up to 20psi

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

WTF???

pp13bnos

iTrader: (1)

Here is my future setup. Pineapple racing large street port. clipped BNR stage 3 twins. 850cc/1300cc, powerfc, and all the bolt-ons etc. Extrude honed lower intake manifold, and maybe a bored out throttle body. If there is a new exaust manifold coming out, I may have to check it out too. Goal would be 425-450rwhp on race gas.

Does anyone know if rich is going to be able to get his car dyno'd before he takes off? CJ

Felix Wankel

What are you being such an ******* about it for? You don't have them, don't want them, and never will have them it seems.

What's the big ******* deal?

mjw

iTrader: (1)

I can tell you for a fact that you have to have the stock turbos and IC (HKS is the only LEGAL IC upgrade in CA) to pass an emissions inspection in California. It is state law, that is where it is stated.

I agree with you on the IC comment, but there are a lot of reasons that someone might choose to keep the stock IC.

Matt

RICE RACING

You will draw all of these reactions & more from various people



So long as it goes

Zero R

iTrader: (1)

I would like to see where it is stated you have to have stock turbo's or IC. I would bet , if you could prove your car passed emmisions within the legal requirements you could pass, if I remember correctly it's not that having the part on the car is illegal, only that the parts would need to be proven not to effect your emmisions output. This might require you to get a EO as it is called on those parts, but it could be done and you would be legal.I just don't think it's worth it to most people.

Marshall

I think Stephen meant the intercooler piping/setup IE no custom fabbed pipes, just bolt right on and go. ..not the actual stock POS!

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

Sorry Stephen but what you said is not correct. The air gets hot from the turbo simply because it's compressed. It's not the friction that creates the heat. If it is, the bearing inside the turbo will be gone in no time. The comrpessor side of the turbo runs cooler now because it has a more efficent compressor wheel.

Chuck Huang

SPOautos

CORRECT!!!! This is exactly what i meant.

Its obvious you cant run the actual stock intercooler, its junk. What I'm talking about is using the same IC, dp, intake and oil feed/drain lines you had when you had stock twins. When you go single you have to replace the dp, pipe going from turbo to IC, oil feed/drain lines, and the intake, all this adds up and drives up the price of a single conversion.

STEPHEN

SPOautos

Any state that follows CARB ....from another member is seems HKS MIGHT have a kit that meets carb apporval. ANY aftermarket performace part that you buy for your car that doest say CARB approval on it is illegal in Cali and a bunch of other states. Cali enforces it, I dont know how strict all the other states are.

What are you talking about??? This post was made by a current single turbo guy that was asking what you guys thought of the turbos. I got on here and told my story and what I thought just like everyone else did.

There have been upgraded twins all thru the years, but non of them have been proven with dyno AND trap speeds that back each other up.....at least not in the states. I dont know what they have in Australia, it wouldnt really matter, I live in the US.

I dont have to justify anything, I'm making the numbers. Sounds to me like you guys just refuse to believe the numbers or something....I dont know what it is

STEPHEN

SPOautos

Carbon seals have huge amounts of frictions compared to a dynamic seal. What does friction create??? Heat

This is why there havent been any turbos with carbon seals in years and years.

And yea, you are correct that the more efficient wheels also help, but there have been many upgraded twins with different compressor wheels that didnt get the cooling ability that these do. Its bacause all they did was take the stock turbos and fit a new compressor wheel to them. I believe the M2's runn pretty cool as well, they are bb though so they dont have the crap carbon seals.

STEPHEN

SPOautos

Poweraxle, I'm sorry if I got under your skin. I dont really want to **** anyone off, I'm just trying to tell everyone what these turbos are all about. I guess your first post just rubbed me the wrong way, to ME is sounded like you were trashing them in a round about way. Maybe you didnt intend it that way.

STEPHEN